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    is Buffon the best

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    is Buffon the best Empty is Buffon the best

    Post by Guest Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:00 pm

    Ever

    Calcio Debate: Will Buffon Become The Best Ever?

    Tomorrow night Gianluigi Buffon will win his 79th cap for Italy against Georgia and will captain his country for the first time in his career. Carlo Garganese asks whether Buffon will go on to be remembered as the best goalkeeper of all time…


    Gianluigi Buffon made his debut for Italy almost exactly ten years ago at the age of just 19. The date was October 29, 1997 and the Azzurri were contesting a crucial World Cup first-leg play-off match with Russia.

    The omens did not look good for Italy. The game was played in the freezing Moscow weather and the pitch was covered in snow and mist. The teams even had to use an orange ball as the conditions were so bad.

    In the 32nd minute of the game Italy’s goalkeeper Gianluca Pagliuca had to be taken off due to injury. As Angelo Peruzzi, Italy’s number one at the time, was also unavailable, a skinny-looking 19-year-old stepped into the snow for his Italy debut.

    His name was Gianluigi Buffon. My dad, with whom I was watching the game, turned to me and said “Boy, I don’t think we will be qualifying for the World Cup”.

    It has to be said, everything pointed to a home victory; the weather, Italy’s awful record in Russia and most importantly a rookie 19-year-old was in goal.

    However Buffon was absolutely outstanding, pulling off some truly world-class saves in treacherous conditions. For someone so young his personality and confidence shone through and I can distinctly remember him punching the air after making a stop from Russian forward Sergei Yuran.

    Italy miraculously escaped with a 1-1 draw, mainly thanks to the heroics of Buffon, and the next day the Italian newspapers were unanimous in agreeing that a phenomenon had been born. Cesare Maldini’s men won the return leg in Naples 1-0 and qualified for France 98’.

    Buffon has since gone on to make 78 appearances for Italy, and at the age of just 29, he seems set to smash Dino Zoff’s Italy appearance record of 112 caps.

    He has played in three World Cups, travelling to France 98’ as Pagliuca’s understudy, before featuring in every one of Italy’s games at Korea 2002 and Germany 2006.

    In Germany of course the Azzurri lifted the trophy and Buffon was exceptional, letting in just two goals in seven games, one of them an own-goal and the other a penalty. Indeed until Zinedine Zidane scored for France in the final, Buffon went 453 minutes without conceding in Germany.

    Buffon had as an equally impressive entrance for club as he did for country. At the age of 17 he made his debut for Parma against the mighty AC Milan and pulled off some breathtaking stops on his way to keeping a clean-sheet.

    In six years at the club, he would go on to win a UEFA Cup, Coppa Italia and an Italian Super Cup, before signing for Juventus for a world record goalkeeper’s fee of £32m.

    In Turin he has since established himself as the undisputed number one goalkeeper in the world, a title he has probably held since the beginning of the demise of Oliver Kahn in 2002.

    He has won the Scudetto four times with the Bianconeri (two of these were later stripped due to the Calcipoli scandal), while out of a host of individual awards, he last year finished runner-up to Fabio Cannavaro in the race for the Ballon d’Or.

    Buffon still has far too long of his career to go, before we can start labelling him as the greatest goalkeeper of all time.

    However with another two World Cups and European Championships still in his locker, it seems inevitable that when Buffon does decide to hang up his gloves, he will certainly be talked about in the same breath as past goalkeeping legends such as Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, and Dino Zoff himself.

    What are your views? Do you think Gianluigi Buffon will go on to be remembered as the greatest goalkeeper of all time? We want to know what YOU think?

    We all know Bluenine will say yes
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    Post by fcb Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:09 pm

    Depends on how his career progresses in the next few years. A big hurdle is that Juve isn't a universally liked or respected club.

    Also, as we were discussing in the Euroboard Best Player thread yesterday, Buffon doesn't make as many Hollywood saves as other keepers do.

    But IMO he definitely has a (deserving) chance to be (like the article says in the last line) mentioned in the same breath as Yashin, Banks, Zoff, etc. Not sure if he'll bypass them all.
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:30 pm

    Lev Yashin was Heracles , the man was not human.
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    Post by bluenine Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:32 pm

    Well, my views on this were clear before the above article was written. If Buffon continues this way for another 6-7 years, he will definately retire as one of the best ever, if not the best.

    As for hollywood saves, while there have been better keepers, Buffon is not bad... infact, I have seen enough of Zoff to say that Buffon is better than him in herculean saves. But the standout quality of Buffon is the remarkable consistancy.

    Lev Yashin had the best technical ability, which is quite unparalleled.... in that, there will never be any doubt. His reflexs were unreal, & his athleticism is legendary. I don't think Buffon can beat him on any of these attributes, no goalkeeper can.

    But in his 20 odd years as a GK, Yashin had phases with the early 60s being his prime. Buffon so far in 10-12 years has had only one phase. From the time he was a teen at Parma to now, he has been extremely consistant and and quite remarkably so. If he continues that level for another 6-7 years, he could become a bigger legend...

    Coz Garrincha argueably had better technical ability and talent than Pele.

    kas wrote:
    Also, as we were discussing in the Euroboard Best Player thread yesterday, Buffon doesn't make as many Hollywood saves as other keepers do.
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    Post by Formerly known as sheva7 Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:42 pm

    Buffon is great, but IMO Casillas and Cech are in the same bracket as him, so I don't think that he will be the best GK of all time.
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    Post by gone Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:30 pm

    sheva7 wrote:Buffon is great, but IMO Casillas and Cech are in the same bracket as him, so I don't think that he will be the best GK of all time.

    Cech is 25 and Casillas is 26. So they need to be the best (or among the best) in the world for 3-4 years before being in the same bracket as Buffon.
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:30 pm

    Casillas has been the best since 2002 ..
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    Post by Super Progress Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:49 pm

    Raifael wrote:Casillas has been the best since 2002 ..
    i rate casillas as among the 3 best but buffon to me seems so all round in his game. and like blunine said he has been very stable. however i would never change him for casillas since i think that for Real casillas is the best suited.
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:51 pm

    How tall is Casillas btw ? i think any goalkeeper that shows signs of consistency they will be rated highly no matter their age , who they play for etc. We nnow live in a world where we have to rank everything which is a shame.
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    Post by fcb Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:54 pm

    Casillas is 1.85 metres, Buffon is 1.91 metres. Cech is 10.something Razz
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    Post by Cesc Soler Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:55 pm

    Roughly 185cm.

    Players like Casillas are very rare indeed, didn't he start a Champions League Final as a teenager?
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    Post by Machiavel Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:56 pm

    He broke Edwin van der Sars record as the youngest goalkeeper to win the Champions League. I still rate VDS as much as i rate Casillas.
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    Post by DD Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:26 am

    VDS used to be amazing but he has trailed off as he has gotten older. The most particular part about VDS was, in addition to his work in the box, that he was a keeper who had technique and could join in the setup of an attack or play the ball out instead of aimless hoofs - he could play outside of the penalty area. Ideal for Oranje's style and in the period that VDS played there wasn't one with the same skills.
    He is also one of the few keepers that never panic unlike 90% of them.

    Casillas will always be the better shotstopper of the three (Buffon, Cech), but is the lesser one in all other areas compared to Cech and Buffon.
    Cech is not a penaltykiller and Buffon can do it all.
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    Post by Cesc Soler Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:44 am

    I felt sorry for Buffon in the 2003 Champions League Final. He saved two penalties yet was still on the losing team.

    Spare a thought for David Trezeguet, he has missed penalties in both a Champions League Final and World Cup Final.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:31 am

    DD wrote:Casillas will always be the better shotstopper of the three (Buffon, Cech), but is the lesser one in all other areas compared to Cech and Buffon.
    Cech is not a penaltykiller and Buffon can do it all.

    ok
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    Post by EMP Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:45 am

    In discussions on Buffon it is often forgotten that when he was just 17 he got his chance at Parma. He was behind Luca Bucci, then an Italian international. Buffon was spectacular. Bucci had to find a new club to get first team football when he was Italt's keeper - admittedly not one of Italy's best. You could see even then that Buffon was a special talent. He has been consistently excellent for over a decade. He will be one of the best keepers of all time. It is too early to compare him to Yashin, or even Banks and Zoff. He could easily play for anoter five years or so. Let us wait until his career is over before judging where he should be ranked. It is far too early for Casillas and Cech. Casillas did exceptionally well in the CL final, but don't forget that Buffon never had the same opportunity so early in his career. Who can say Buffon would not have done just as well? Just my opinion but I think Buffon is a better all round goalkeeper than Casillas and a measure of how good he is is that Parma got £30m for him and still got ripped off. By the way why does Gyula Grossics never warrant a mention in such discussions?
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    Post by The Easter Bunny Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:15 am

    EMP wrote:In discussions on Buffon it is often forgotten that when he was just 17 he got his chance at Parma. He was behind Luca Bucci, then an Italian international. Buffon was spectacular. Bucci had to find a new club to get first team football when he was Italt's keeper - admittedly not one of Italy's best. You could see even then that Buffon was a special talent. He has been consistently excellent for over a decade. He will be one of the best keepers of all time. It is too early to compare him to Yashin, or even Banks and Zoff. He could easily play for anoter five years or so. Let us wait until his career is over before judging where he should be ranked. It is far too early for Casillas and Cech. Casillas did exceptionally well in the CL final, but don't forget that Buffon never had the same opportunity so early in his career. Who can say Buffon would not have done just as well? Just my opinion but I think Buffon is a better all round goalkeeper than Casillas and a measure of how good he is is that Parma got £30m for him and still got ripped off. By the way why does Gyula Grossics never warrant a mention in such discussions?

    ok Good post ok
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    Post by EMP Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:41 am

    Crouching Punty wrote:
    EMP wrote:In discussions on Buffon it is often forgotten that when he was just 17 he got his chance at Parma. He was behind Luca Bucci, then an Italian international. Buffon was spectacular. Bucci had to find a new club to get first team football when he was Italt's keeper - admittedly not one of Italy's best. You could see even then that Buffon was a special talent. He has been consistently excellent for over a decade. He will be one of the best keepers of all time. It is too early to compare him to Yashin, or even Banks and Zoff. He could easily play for anoter five years or so. Let us wait until his career is over before judging where he should be ranked. It is far too early for Casillas and Cech. Casillas did exceptionally well in the CL final, but don't forget that Buffon never had the same opportunity so early in his career. Who can say Buffon would not have done just as well? Just my opinion but I think Buffon is a better all round goalkeeper than Casillas and a measure of how good he is is that Parma got £30m for him and still got ripped off. By the way why does Gyula Grossics never warrant a mention in such discussions?

    ok Good post ok

    Thanks. <Ale>
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    Post by bluenine Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:27 pm

    Yeah, excellent post EMP ok

    Crouching Punty wrote:
    EMP wrote:In discussions on Buffon it is often forgotten that when he was just 17 he got his chance at Parma. He was behind Luca Bucci, then an Italian international. Buffon was spectacular. Bucci had to find a new club to get first team football when he was Italt's keeper - admittedly not one of Italy's best. You could see even then that Buffon was a special talent. He has been consistently excellent for over a decade. He will be one of the best keepers of all time. It is too early to compare him to Yashin, or even Banks and Zoff. He could easily play for anoter five years or so. Let us wait until his career is over before judging where he should be ranked. It is far too early for Casillas and Cech. Casillas did exceptionally well in the CL final, but don't forget that Buffon never had the same opportunity so early in his career. Who can say Buffon would not have done just as well? Just my opinion but I think Buffon is a better all round goalkeeper than Casillas and a measure of how good he is is that Parma got £30m for him and still got ripped off. By the way why does Gyula Grossics never warrant a mention in such discussions?

    ok Good post ok
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    Post by Cesc Soler Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:29 pm

    ok <Ale>

    Although I always thought Peruzzi and Pagliuca were the Italy goalkeepers at that time.
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:34 pm

    Cesc wrote:ok <Ale>

    Although I always thought Peruzzi and Pagliuca were the Italy goalkeepers at that time.

    Great Keeper ok...and I think you're right...I don't remember Bucci ever being first choice for Italy.
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    Post by bluenine Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:43 pm

    Pags was a legend ok

    Bucci was the 3rd choice gk for Italy for a while, and even played a few games for Italy - I think thats what EMP is refering to, coz when Bucci was at his peak he got upstaged by a 17 yr old.

    Deano Ashton wrote:
    Cesc wrote:ok <Ale>

    Although I always thought Peruzzi and Pagliuca were the Italy goalkeepers at that time.

    Great Keeper ok...and I think you're right...I don't remember Bucci ever being first choice for Italy.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:47 pm

    Peruzzi is/was the most overrated keeper in the history of football.
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:47 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:Peruzzi is/was the most overrated keeper in the history of football.

    I always thought he was good...no way better than Pagliuca though.
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    Post by bluenine Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:56 pm

    Nah, he's always been a very safe pair of hands.

    Truth be told, Perruzzi was Italys top keeper before Buffon... his injuries before big tournaments gave that opening to Pagluica to show his stuff... just like Buffon's injury gave Toldo his chance in Euro2000.

    At their peak, I always rated Pags > Perruzzi. But I know many people including most Azzurri coaches who thought the other way. I guess its coz Perruzzi had a longer peak than Pagluica.

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:Peruzzi is/was the most overrated keeper in the history of football.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:58 pm

    bluenine wrote:Nah, he's always been a very safe pair of hands.

    Truth be told, Perruzzi was Italys top keeper before Buffon... his injuries before big tournaments gave that opening to Pagluica to show his stuff... just like Buffon's injury gave Toldo his chance in Euro2000.

    At their peak, I always rated Pags > Perruzzi. But I know many people including most Azzurri coaches who thought the other way. I guess its coz Perruzzi had a longer peak than Pagluica.

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:Peruzzi is/was the most overrated keeper in the history of football.

    Slow to come off his line, not particularly agile or commanding.
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    Post by S4P Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:55 pm

    Cech is 1.95 (6'5") kas.

    In answer to your question, I still rate Schmeichel above Buffon. I know Buffon has been at the top for a very long time (full credit to him) but that shouldn't influence people's decision on whether or not he is the greatest of all time.
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:38 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    bluenine wrote:Nah, he's always been a very safe pair of hands.

    Truth be told, Perruzzi was Italys top keeper before Buffon... his injuries before big tournaments gave that opening to Pagluica to show his stuff... just like Buffon's injury gave Toldo his chance in Euro2000.

    At their peak, I always rated Pags > Perruzzi. But I know many people including most Azzurri coaches who thought the other way. I guess its coz Perruzzi had a longer peak than Pagluica.

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:Peruzzi is/was the most overrated keeper in the history of football.

    Slow to come off his line, not particularly agile or commanding.

    Having seen Peruzzi live, I would say he is slow to come off his line, but he is definitely commanding. He also tends to catch the ball better than most Italian goalkeepers. I rate him very highly.
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    Post by EMP Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:24 pm

    bluenine wrote:Pags was a legend ok

    Bucci was the 3rd choice gk for Italy for a while, and even played a few games for Italy - I think thats what EMP is refering to, coz when Bucci was at his peak he got upstaged by a 17 yr old.

    Deano Ashton wrote:
    Cesc wrote:ok <Ale>

    Although I always thought Peruzzi and Pagliuca were the Italy goalkeepers at that time.

    Great Keeper ok...and I think you're right...I don't remember Bucci ever being first choice for Italy.

    Exactly what I was referring to. <Ale> ok
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    Post by Cripps Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:26 pm

    Best of all time?

    Not sure

    He currently is the best in the world though

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