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Romford Pele
debaser
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    Premier League - Sat 27 Oct 2007 and Sun 28 Oct 2007 Thread

    Kimbo
    Kimbo


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    Post by Kimbo Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:56 pm

    It's not true, the Zog glanced up before he pulled his leg back, and even if he didn't it wasn't a hit and hope, he clearly knew where the goal was.

    I'm pissed off with Allardyce, he seems obsessed with being "solid" and tough to break down away from home, that's fine against the top 4 but he does it against whipping boys, teams we should use the same tactics we use at home against. I can't explain why he does it, i'm confounded. If it doesn't change then he won't be good enough and will have to go, Sam wasn't Mike Ashleys appointment so i don't think he will hesitate to sack him. He's been fine at home though i'll give him that.


    Last edited by on Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:58 pm

    I think Sam Allardyce is bringing the same mentality he had at Bolton, without realising that Newcastle is a bigger club and he needs to play better, more positive football. Right now I think he has his priorities right in making the home form perfect (I can already see the Big 4 happy with a point from St. James).
    DD
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    Post by DD Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:07 am

    Kimbo wrote:It's not true, the Zog glanced up before he pulled his leg back, and even if he didn't it wasn't a hit and hope, he clearly knew where the goal was.

    I'm pissed off with Allardyce, he seems obsessed with being "solid" and tough to break down away from home, that's fine against the top 4 but he does it against whipping boys, teams we should use the same tactics we use at home against. I can't explain why he does it, i'm confounded. If it doesn't change then he won't be good enough and will have to go, Sam wasn't Mike Ashleys appointment so i don't think he will hesitate to sack him. He's been fine at home though i'll give him that.
    I think that might be it though - perhaps taking a page from Mourinho (in his mind)?
    The transfers (with exception of Smith) have been almost impeccable though. Yes even Barton - he might be a grade A c**t, but he's at the same level as Parker if not a bit more creative/attacking (poor man's Gerrard).
    I anticipated some Newcastle supporters wouldn't be happy with Sam's achievement so far (I wouldn't) but I have yet to see a game or a turning point where he showes what he's capable of. At the moment Newcastle seem to lack ideas upfront (no surprise if play Butt and Smith every game and Zog is teh only reliable outlet with Owen upfront). Sam also has the very peculair preference of playing Martins on the wings! Doh
    I'd be pairing Martins and Viduka upfront for starters.

    What would your ideal Newcastle line-up be with the current squad?
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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:11 am

    Nicky Butt? Have you watched the games DD? He was MotM against Spurs.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:12 am

    I would like to see this tried.

    ---------------Given---------------

    Beye--Faye--Rozehnal--Enrique

    Milner---Butt---Emre---N'Zogbia

    --------Viduka--Martins--------

    Butt and Emre is the only partnership that works in the middle, but we won't see it too often because Barton, Smith, and Geremi have to be crowbarred in. Same problem upfront with Owen. Faye and Roz haven't been tested yet but logically it should be the best partnership.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:15 am

    Parks lives wrote:Nicky Butt? Have you watched the games DD? He was MotM against Spurs.

    Debatable.
    DD
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    Post by DD Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:23 am

    ta Ale
    I'd love to hear Basch's opinions too.
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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:24 am

    He got the official MotM and two other papers I read gave him MotM as well.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:28 am

    Parks lives wrote:He got the official MotM and two other papers I read gave him MotM as well.

    Yeah, alot of people were saying Martins or Faye though, it wasn't like there was one stand out player. Personally i would say it was Dawson.
    Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U
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    Post by Liverpool 0 - 1 Man U Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:47 am

    Smith.

    Why.

    That is all.
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:57 am

    Kimbo wrote:I would like to see this tried.

    ---------------Given---------------

    Beye--Faye--Rozehnal--Enrique

    Milner---Butt---Emre---N'Zogbia

    --------Viduka--Martins--------

    Butt and Emre is the only partnership that works in the middle, but we won't see it too often because Barton, Smith, and Geremi have to be crowbarred in. Same problem upfront with Owen. Faye and Roz haven't been tested yet but logically it should be the best partnership.



    Mine would be:

    ---------------Given---------------

    Beye--Cacapa--Rozehnal--Enrique

    Milner---Faye---Barton---N'Zogbia

    --------Viduka--Martins--------


    A classic 4-4-2, bit of a diamond about it with Faye's positioning, and it would work against most opposition, home or away.
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:03 am

    Bellamy injured now Doh

    This injury list is fucking ridiculous.
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:15 am

    I shall be a fan of Bolton, Derby and Arsenal today...also hoping for Tottenham to get a draw with Blackburn.
    Bashmachkin
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    Post by Bashmachkin Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:20 am

    Im entirely with Kimbos team - ultimately, that eleven is the one I would play too. I suppose my only questions would be as to whether to go for Faye or Cacapa alongside Rozehnal - or alternately, whether to play both and replace Butt with Rozehnal as our holding player. Faye looks potentially more solid than Cacapa, but I would say he was the weaker of the two yesterday, whilst Cacapa is more of a natural leader on the pitch and less likely to lose his confidence during a game. Then considering Geremis poor form; that Faye doesnt seem more technically able than Butt and looks more of a typical centre back; that Barton alongside the other midfielders is perhaps too attacking even for me, and certainly too attacking for Allardyce; we are left with either Butt, who has at least had a few solid games this season and who, with Emre against Tottenham, comprised the only actual central partnership we have seen so far under Allardyce, or we try Rozehnal as the defensive midfielder. This has a lot of potential considering Rozehnals ability on the ball, and he has the pace which Butt lacks, but obviously it would depend on him forming a partnership with, ideally, Emre. However, Kimbo pointed out this week that Rozehnal has played in the position for PSG and was rated highly when playing there, so its viable.

    I guess it boils down to whether Rozehnal is more important for us in defence, or whether he could improve us more in the midfield. We have been hoofing too much from the back, and Rozehnal helps us in this instance and can really play from the back which is something, besides from Woodgates brief spell with us, that we havent had since Albert. On the other hand its possible the presence of a footballing defensive midfielder would allow the other defenders to play off him more, and so Rozehnal could become a sort of deep lying playmaker, taking passes from the defence and spreading the play and building moves from there.

    Most of the team is obvious, but like Kimbo says, Allardyce clearly has his favourites and so its difficult to see us playing our best team under him. With one winger we are half the team we could be, because with N'Zogbia on the left but Geremi or Smith on the right our whole right side becomes negligible, as neither can play out wide, neither holds their position, both lack pace, and it also leads to us switching wide players which, as Ive said numerous times, confuses us rather than the opposition and takes from the actual wingers game - for instance, N'Zogbia is pushed to the right and Geremi wanders to the left in a vain attempt to add width to the right and change our play, but it only tends to kill any momentum the actual winger is gaining on their proper wing. Just as the full backs are obvious selections because we only have one proper right and left full back, so its obvious who we should pick on the wings, because we only have Milner and N'Zogbia who can play there properly. This is besides from the fact that Milner and N'Zogbia are both more talented than Geremi, Smith, whomever, and that neither can be criticised for failing to track back.

    As for the rest of the midfield, Emre has more ability than Barton, hes more creative, and he should play. He also gets on with Martins, and Martins should be essential to our team, and could thrive from Emres through balls. Which leads to the forwards and, as Ive said, Martins is the one who has to play whatever, because he more than anyone else in our team is a player who creates, and tries to create constantly, and from nothing. This is an incidental point here, but still an important one - a player like Martins is in fact one who genuinely tries on the pitch, who tries in a sense alien to the likes of Smith and Butt, because he doesnt simply do what he has to do but he constantly tries to actually make things happen, to test himself, to add to the team and to make us win games. As it is, Martins harries the opposition too, and so as well as our most creative player he is also the most hard working of our forwards.

    Then he should play with Viduka, who is tremendously talented himself and who gives more options than Owen. As Ive said before, Owen, whatever his strengths, does not work in our team. We have the players to play a passing and attacking game, but as it is we dont play that way and even if we were to start, it would take time for the team to gel. And until we do play in such a way, Owen shouldnt be considered as a starter, because in a team that plays long balls at times, that doesnt hold onto the ball and play it on the floor, Owen isnt involved in the game. He stands high up the pitch and never sees any of the ball. Owens build up play is good and he has a fantastic sense for goal, and if our overall play improved and we learnt to pressure opponents with the ball, then Owen and Martins could work as a partnership - and Owen could then be considered as a member of the first eleven, though even then Viduka would challenge him because Viduka is stronger, better in the air, whilst still having excellent technique and an excellent finish. Theres also the undeniable fact that Owen isnt entirely interested in playing well for us, and would probably leave if he had the chance, and so this doesnt endear me to him, even though I could see him working well under certain conditions - and so this adds to the feeling that Martins and Viduka may be the best option however we play.

    Again, like Kimbo says, the problem is that I cant see Allardyce dropping Owen from the team, and so Martins will probably end up on the bench when people are fit, whilst Geremi and Smith will be shoved somewhere into the midfield, and we will lose our shape and will continue to be hit and miss. Allardyce not only has his favourites, which is itself emblematic of a limited or at least limiting outlook on things, but his style is undeniably negative, and these are his two big failings, the latter of which is one that was evident at Bolton but which I hoped would fade with us, with better players at his disposal and perhaps even under the influence of the fans, who like attacking football. I imagine that he considers our defeat yesterday not so much as a product of poor management but as evidence of defensive frailties. And so he will focus on making us more solid at the back, when the problem was poor team selection, a lack of width and balance, which was all presumably intended to make us more solid to start with, and in fact meant that we offered nothing going forwards and couldnt hold onto the ball. Newcastle have suffered under a series of managers who have completely failed to understand that the best method of defence is actually attack - that no matter how able or organised a defence is, if you resort to long balls, offer no attacking threat, fail to pass the ball and hold onto it, and so invite pressure, you will let goals in. Whilst a midfield including all of Emre, N'Zogbia and Milner might look less solid than a one comprising Smith, Geremi, Barton, the fact that the former three are able to add width and pass the ball means that they will in fact make us harder to beat and harder to score against.
    lrdsucksgoats
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    Post by lrdsucksgoats Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:27 am

    Carlton Cole wrote:Bellamy injured now Doh

    This injury list is fucking ridiculous.


    I haven't seen injuries like this affecting one team for donkey's years. The West Ham physios must be going barmy...
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:28 am

    Rabbit wrote:
    Carlton Cole wrote:Bellamy injured now Doh

    This injury list is fucking ridiculous.


    I haven't seen injuries like this affecting one team for donkey's years. The West Ham physios must be going barmy...

    We have some of the best physios and best club doctors...I can't understand why all these injuries are occuring.

    We have a league cup game on Tuesday night...and to add to that, both Solano and Camara are cup tied Doh
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:54 pm

    Bolton 1-0 Villa

    Great freekick from Anelka.
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:58 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:Bolton 1-0 Villa

    Great freekick from Anelka.

    Lazy, selfish, sulking Frenchman putting himself in the shop window...

    Razz
    DS
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    Post by DS Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:24 pm

    Bolton looking decent in the first half.
    The Pröfessör
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    Post by The Pröfessör Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:24 pm

    Anelka should really be playing for a top 4 side
    DS
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    Post by DS Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:29 pm

    Agooner wrote:Anelka should really be playing for a top 4 side

    If he isnt a target in Jan then I would be dissapointed but perhaps he wont be happy sitting on the bench at times so we may go for someone younger or unknown.
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    Post by Batman Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:39 pm

    Tottenham v Blackburn

    Cerny

    Chimbonda . . Kaboul . . Dawson . . . Lee .

    Lennon . . Huddlestone . . Zokora . . Malbranque

    Berbatov . . Keane (c)


    McCarthy . . Santa Cruz

    Dunn . . . . Tugay . . . Savage . . . . Bentley

    Warnock . . . Ooijer . . . Samba . . . Emerton

    Friedel (c)


    Tottenham Subs: Alnwick, Tainio, Stalteri, Defoe, Bent.

    Blackburn Subs: Brown, Nelsen, Pedersen, Mokoena, Derbyshire.
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:41 pm

    Nelsen on the bench for Blackburn?? Has Hughes gone crazy Yikes

    I expect Tottenham to win this one now tbh...
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    Post by L r d hAsta LueGo Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:41 pm

    Pederson is a sub these days.
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:44 pm

    Derby County 0-1 Everton.
    Mikel Arteta'26.

    Why Billy Davies is playing a 4-5-1 at home I don't know...
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:47 pm

    Bolton 1-1 Aston Villa...

    Agbonlahor with a fluke goal...
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:49 pm

    Very lucky goal for Villa. Does Moore get that goal and Agbonlahor the assist?
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:50 pm

    Yeah, it's gone to Moore.
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:10 pm

    anelka replaced by j'lloyd samuel. tactical genius from megson?!
    The Pröfessör
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    Post by The Pröfessör Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:11 pm

    blackburn are playing like arsenal at the moment.

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