BREAKING NEWS: INTER-LAZIO OFF

I don't know what the practice is in Italy but it does seem a bit over the top to fire live rounds to break up a car park fight. It wasn't as if police were faced with a full-on riot coming their way.

Did Lazio ultras really had to start this sh!t? Let's save it, had they not attacked Juve fans then this wouldn't have happened. We can't blame cops for this.

The policeman who actually fired the shot, has his Identity been revealed? Because if it has, his life in Italy will be all but over, impossible for him to live there when there will be every clubs Ultra's after him...

Accident or not, very stupid of them...

Zack Thfc wrote:The policeman who actually fired the shot, has his Identity been revealed? Because if it has, his life in Italy will be all but over, impossible for him to live there when there will be every clubs Ultra's after him...

Accident or not, very stupid of them...

Was just about to post a similar question.

El Gaffer wrote:

Zack Thfc wrote:The policeman who actually fired the shot, has his Identity been revealed? Because if it has, his life in Italy will be all but over, impossible for him to live there when there will be every clubs Ultra's after him...

Accident or not, very stupid of them...

Was just about to post a similar question.

But police didn't start the madness?

rza i think you may need to understand the european mentality a bit moremate, whatever these people did it didn't warrant being shot.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:rza i think you may need to understand the european mentality a bit moremate, whatever these people did it didn't warrant being shot.

I’m trying to understand but u guys are looking only at the effect and trying to ignore the cause. In this case, the cause was Lazio’s ultras attacking Juve fans, now Juve fans felt they were in danger hence they called the cops. Now it’s unfortunate that a person was killed, whether mistakenly or not. Now let’s imagine what could have happened had cops not been nearer to the place, then we would probably be talking about a lot of Juve fans hurt or dead because of Lazio ultras.

Now people will ignore Lazio ultras and blame the cops, as usual. It’s about time Italy football fans see the situation as it is, and stop blaming cops for their own friends’ ridiculous behaviour.

In South Africa we once went through that phase of violence in stadiums, and people were getting hurt even dying. The turning point was when we as the fans acted against the people we sit next to at the stadiums. Italy has to follow the same route otherwise they should brace for empty stadiums.

@rza: It isn't that simple. The extreme elements of the ultras have a degree of power in some of the clubs in Italy and you can blame the police for this incident. After Catania they have gone in hard - sometimes harder than necessary. If innocent people get hurt bu police actions it fosters resentment, sometimes explosive resentment. The irony of this is that Gabriele Dandri was not an ultra - he was a Lazio supporter not involved in the violence against the Juve fans.This is more than a tragic error. Sandri's death is totally unacceptable. Had common-sense been applied by police in Arezzo the rest of the incidents, especially Rome would not have happened. Why did they have live ammunition? Why did they not fire blanks as warnig shots? Why not in the air? The death of Gabriele Sandri has been expoited by Roman ultras, but if common sense had been applied by that policeman it would not have happened. You can't blame the ultras for his death and I say this as someone who hhas no time for the extreme belements of ultras, especially Lazio's.

rza, the police can't use firearms unless their lives are in danger. This is how it's in Romania and I'm sure that is the case of Italy too.

gone wrote:rza, the police can't use firearms unless their lives are in danger. This is how it's in Romania and I'm sure that is the case of Italy too.

It's difficult to tell if their lives were not in danger, but remember that the last time we had this violence in Italy then a police officer was killed. As they said, the bullet most probably went off by mistake which if true then means police didn't have bad intentions. Police has apologised for the incident.

This is an unfortunate incident, but something has to be done about the ultras the same way Italy tackled Mafia. But this time, the real fans are the ones who can hit back.

How does this ultras function?

Ultras = Gangs of hooligans.

The police ALLWAYS has bad intentions. In Spain they beat up a person (who was ill btw) because they *knew* he's done something wrong. In the end it turns out he was inocent.

When in doubt, knock him out.

Juego de la Okkas wrote:When in doubt, knock him out.

Axeslammer wrote:One down, the rest to go

piss off you fucker

rza wrote:Did Lazio ultras really had to start this sh!t? Let's save it, had they not attacked Juve fans then this wouldn't have happened. We can't blame cops for this.

If only the Jews weren't jews, then they wouldnt of been killed by the millions.....

rza wrote:

gone wrote:rza, the police can't use firearms unless their lives are in danger. This is how it's in Romania and I'm sure that is the case of Italy too.

It's difficult to tell if their lives were not in danger, but remember that the last time we had this violence in Italy then a police officer was killed. As they said, the bullet most probably went off by mistake which if true then means police didn't have bad intentions. Police has apologised for the incident.

This is an unfortunate incident, but something has to be done about the ultras the same way Italy tackled Mafia. But this time, the real fans are the ones who can hit back.

How does this ultras function?

It wasn't even the fans who killed the officer you're mentioning turned out he was hiding behind a police car and another policeman in the car backed up and it crushed the officer inbetween to cars.

Not all Ultras are hooligans, you cannot apply the same yardstick to judge each ultra group.... otherwise it would be a very simple solution to ban all ultras.

It would be a big mistake to confuse the Italian "ultras" with the english "Hooligan firms" of the 80s. They are very different. Unlike those hooligan firms, the main objective of the Ultras is not to fight fans of other clubs, but support your own team. Some Ultras have their political views/alliances, and that sometimes goes beyond the sport, but thats not all the ultras.

As for the previous question by rza, specific ultra groups do get certain compensation by the clubs, mostly for things like entering the stadium early, preparing banners inside the stadium, cheaper tickets, allocation of the curva, etc.

Its much more complicated. The ultras have resulted in a lot of positive things as well, packing stadiums, adding to the atmosphere, creating historic club rivalries, etc.... Having Ultras is not necessarily bad, but some of these groups definately need to be controlled.

gone wrote:Ultras = Gangs of hooligans.

The police ALLWAYS has bad intentions. In Spain they beat up a person (who was ill btw) because they *knew* he's done something wrong. In the end it turns out he was inocent.

League suspension requested in Italy

Italian Sports Minister Giovanna Melandri has called on the soccer authorities to suspend league programmes for 'the next few weeks' after rioting on Sunday followed the shooting dead of a Lazio fan by a police officer.

"I have asked the soccer authorities if there is the possibility of a strong gesture, in particular the suspension of the championships for the next few weeks," she told reporters on Monday.

The soccer federation is set to announce a decision after a meeting later on Monday.

That would be silly.

Rioting can happen elsewhere, specially of this kind... its not really football related (Juve and Lazio were not playing each other) but more like 2 groups clashiong with each other and a policeman making a terrible mistake.

They should have suspended all games on sunday to reflect, but postponing 3-4 matchdays would be a bit too much.

Raifael wrote:League suspension requested in Italy

Italian Sports Minister Giovanna Melandri has called on the soccer authorities to suspend league programmes for 'the next few weeks' after rioting on Sunday followed the shooting dead of a Lazio fan by a police officer.

"I have asked the soccer authorities if there is the possibility of a strong gesture, in particular the suspension of the championships for the next few weeks," she told reporters on Monday.

The soccer federation is set to announce a decision after a meeting later on Monday.

bluenine wrote:Not all Ultras are hooligans, you cannot apply the same yardstick to judge each ultra group.... otherwise it would be a very simple solution to ban all ultras.

It would be a big mistake to confuse the Italian "ultras" with the english "Hooligan firms" of the 80s. They are very different. Unlike those hooligan firms, the main objective of the Ultras is not to fight fans of other clubs, but support your own team. Some Ultras have their political views/alliances, and that sometimes goes beyond the sport, but thats not all the ultras.

As for the previous question by rza, specific ultra groups do get certain compensation by the clubs, mostly for things like entering the stadium early, preparing banners inside the stadium, cheaper tickets, allocation of the curva, etc.

Its much more complicated. The ultras have resulted in a lot of positive things as well, packing stadiums, adding to the atmosphere, creating historic club rivalries, etc.... Having Ultras is not necessarily bad, but some of these groups definately need to be controlled.

gone wrote:Ultras = Gangs of hooligans.

The police ALLWAYS has bad intentions. In Spain they beat up a person (who was ill btw) because they *knew* he's done something wrong. In the end it turns out he was inocent.

That's what they say but it's not true. All of them go to games to pick a fight. I used to stay in the North stand in Ghencea (where the Steaua ultras stay) and all of them where looking for a fight (with the police, other fans or even Steaua fans who didn't "think" their way). In Italy is the same thing (and Atalantas ultras are some of the worst btw).

Fan tragedy sends the fight against Ultras back to square one

Ultras across Italy hijacked Gabriele Sandri's death for their own grotesque capital. Now the Italian football federation must consider its next move carefully.
----------------

Another Black Sunday for Italian football. Even now details of Lazio supporter Gabriele Sandri's tragic death remain unclear and disputed. It seems likely he, along with his friends, had been involved in a brawl with Juventus fans at a service station, but only briefly, and it may not even have been football-related. This fight was apparently broken up by a warning shot from a highway patrolman on the far side of the motorway, whereupon Sandri and his friends rushed back to their car and pulled away. The policeman, so far identified only as Luigi S, claims his gun then went off again by accident as he ran along the guardrail, trying to take the car's details.

Sandri's death was not, as some knee-jerk reports suggested yesterday, the result of organised violence between two groups of Ultras. Juventus goalkeeper Gigi Buffon went further - arguing, with some justification, that it wasn't "football's fault", and drawing comparisons with the recent mugging and murder of a woman in Rome. "If she had been wearing a scarf around her neck, would we have stopped the championship?" he posed. "If we began to throw off some of this rhetoric maybe things would be better."

Perhaps, but whoever's fault it was or wasn't, the fallout from Sandri's death was always going to be football's problem. As news and rumour crept across Italy the reaction was furious - from Lazio and Inter fans banding together outside the San Siro to take on police, to Atalanta supporters forcing the abandonment of their game with Milan and - in the words of today's papers - "guerrilla warfare" on the streets of Rome as police stations came under attack. Many, like La Repubblica's Gianni Mura, have blamed the footballing authorities for only choosing to suspend Inter v Lazio and Roma v Cagliari, when they had postponed the whole week's fixtures after policeman Filippo Raciti was killed at the Catania v Palermo derby in February.

"They shouldn't have played," protests Mura in today's edition. "It's easy to say it now, with the images of urban warfare that afflict our eyes. But some people within football tried to say it before. Some players, some managers, those who didn't hide behind that hackneyed phrase - 'they are things that had nothing to do with football'. One banner at Parma ('Death is the same for all') was the most placid response from a terrace in mourning. Who all thought this: for a policeman killed by a fan the championship gets stopped, when it happens the other way around it is enough to put an armband on the players and start 10 minutes late."

Indeed, even the head of the Italian football federation (FIGC) and the Italian Olympic Association (CONI) are believed to have wanted the whole calendar cancelled, with respective presidents Giancarlo Abete and Gianni Petrucci agreed that the 'Raciti precedent' should be cited. Yet it was chief of police Antonio Manganelli, with the support of minister of the interior Giuliano Amato, who disagreed, arguing that the fans would only cause more trouble if they were locked out of the games.

But, while events in Bergamo might seem to have proved Abete and Petrucci right, it is impossible to know whether things would have been any better if the matches had been suspended, because yesterday's protest revolved around Ultras - even though Sandri may not have been one - not the average fan. Ever since Raciti's death, Italy has actually had its Ultras on the back foot - not eliminated by any means, and there has been more violence at games this season than many would like to acknowledge, but certainly reduced in number and influence.

Much has been made of new security legislation at games, as draconian as any in Europe, but the reason for the Ultras' decline has resulted as much from the rare sympathy and solidarity Raciti's death created among the general public for an often mistrusted Italian police force. Sandri's death yesterday, therefore, was - grotesquely - a PR coup for the Ultras, swinging opinion back against their enemies, the police.

"The violences of the Bergamo curva and the desire to stop the championship from Ultras all across Italy are not signs of respect regarding the dead kid in the service station forecourt," points out Mario Sconcerto in today's Corriere della Sera. "They were signs of war and intended to underline that it had been an enemy projectile that had killed the Lazio fan; they were using the emotion of the death of 'one of them' to create propaganda from the violent wrongs of their opponent. The assaults on the police were a kind of dramatic moment of marketing, the Ultras tried break the convictions of a world that was isolating them, to show that they were the real victims."

While we might, therefore, have avoided the undignified sight of Cristiano Doni sheepishly trotting over to Atalanta's Ultras - sadly remiscent of Totti during the 2004 Rome derby - to ask for permission to continue playing, it is unlikely the violence in Milan or Rome would have been much reduced. Furthermore greater trouble might well have occurred at the seven stadia where matches went ahead without any disturbance.

Either way the FIGC will have to consider its next move carefully. After a series of small shuffles forward in the battle against the Ultras they must now recover from a massive tumble backwards that was not of their own making. Gazzetta dello Sport's Luigi Garlando echoed many in calling for the hardest line possible:

"We will leave the Wild West only when we are no longer afraid of the Ultras, when we are no longer held hostage, when the state guarantees kids, who were crying at Bergamo yesterday, the possibility of going to the stadium smiling like when they go to the oratory; when the players can respond 'we're going to keep playing', without being afraid of the repercussions; when the owners of the stadium are the fans who yesterday at Bergamo whistled because they wanted to see the match. The stadium is a territory which the state must reconquer, plugging up the holes in the curva, closing the sewers, creating conditions of legality and safety for those who frequent them.

"We must do this without being ashamed of getting rid of unarmed stewards, if they are a luxury we can't afford any more. Then, one day, we can see about taking down those barriers, like in countries with an educated attitude towards sport. But not by kicking them down."

Paolo Bandini

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/11/12/fan_tragedy_sends_the_fight_ag.html

Gone, some of them are hooligans... what I am basically trying to say is that there are some who are not. Its not as black and white as was the case with the hooligan firms.

gone wrote:

bluenine wrote:Not all Ultras are hooligans, you cannot apply the same yardstick to judge each ultra group.... otherwise it would be a very simple solution to ban all ultras.

It would be a big mistake to confuse the Italian "ultras" with the english "Hooligan firms" of the 80s. They are very different. Unlike those hooligan firms, the main objective of the Ultras is not to fight fans of other clubs, but support your own team. Some Ultras have their political views/alliances, and that sometimes goes beyond the sport, but thats not all the ultras.

As for the previous question by rza, specific ultra groups do get certain compensation by the clubs, mostly for things like entering the stadium early, preparing banners inside the stadium, cheaper tickets, allocation of the curva, etc.

Its much more complicated. The ultras have resulted in a lot of positive things as well, packing stadiums, adding to the atmosphere, creating historic club rivalries, etc.... Having Ultras is not necessarily bad, but some of these groups definately need to be controlled.

gone wrote:Ultras = Gangs of hooligans.

The police ALLWAYS has bad intentions. In Spain they beat up a person (who was ill btw) because they *knew* he's done something wrong. In the end it turns out he was inocent.

That's what they say but it's not true. All of them go to games to pick a fight. I used to stay in the North stand in Ghencea (where the Steaua ultras stay) and all of them where looking for a fight (with the police, other fans or even Steaua fans who didn't "think" their way). In Italy is the same thing (and Atalantas ultras are some of the worst btw).

Very good article.

Sheffield gunner wrote:Fan tragedy sends the fight against Ultras back to square one

Ultras across Italy hijacked Gabriele Sandri's death for their own grotesque capital. Now the Italian football federation must consider its next move carefully.

Paolo Bandini

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/11/12/fan_tragedy_sends_the_fight_ag.html

Bluenine is right...not all Ultras are hooligans...certain ultras are worse than others...

Lazio, Atalanta, Inter and Hellas Verona are the worst...those ultras are mainly the hooligans/racist chanting etc...

Roma ultras are bad at times...but that's more a small section who seem to have a bit of trouble with Lazio/some European teams...they are not in the same bracket as the above.

Ultras of teams like Sampdoria, Fiorentina and Milan...don't really have any history of bad violence...

calling the league off would be silly really.
rioting happens doesnt mean should cancel the games even if it is unacceptable.
+ the calender is already very heavy dont want to make it worse.

can't blame the police freak accident theyw ere doing their job. its lazio's ultras fault they should be ashamed of themselves.
MURDERERS

Cop who killed fan expresses his regret

The policeman who accidentally shot and killed a Lazio fan in Italy yesterday has spoken of his regret over the incident. The officer, who was trying to quell a fight between Lazio and Juventus fans at a motorway service station near Arezzo, confirmed the bullet was fired in error.

The shot killed Gabriele Sandri, a 26-year-old disc jockey.

'I didn't look at anything, I didn't point my gun at anyone. I was at least 200 metres away, how could I have done that?' the unnamed officer told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

'The first shot I fired was in the air and the second was fired when I was running, it was an accident. I know now, this is the end for me.

'I have destroyed two families, that of the man and mine.'

The autopsy on Sandri will be carried out today while police chiefs have already opened an investigation.

Arezzo assistant police commissioner Giuseppe Priore said: 'No-one intends to cover for the agent.'

News of the shooting prompted violence on the terraces at the game between Atalanta and AC Milan while, later in the day, fans in Rome armed with batons and stones attacked one of the police units in the vicinity of the Stadio Olimpico before raiding the headquarters of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI).

The CONI security guards, who were unarmed, had to barricade themselves inside the building while waiting for back-up.

After one of the worst days of football-related violence in Italy, the president of the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) is preparing to announce major changes today.

'It is a day in which there will be major institutional steps taken,' announced president Giancarlo Abete on RAI radio.

'After meeting with the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry for Youth Policies and Sports, there will be the chance for all components of football to meet.'

Abete remained tight-lipped on any likely outcomes, saying it 'would be hazardous and incorrect' to speculate at this time, but already there are fears that Italian football may be suspended.

However, Abete does not believe closing down the sport is the right answer.

'The way of resolving problems is not by eliminating the possibility of allowing football to live in a normal way,' he added.

'We cannot believe - and I refuse to do so - that the only way to respond to the problems in our society is simply by prohibition.

'That is not my way of interpreting civil needs.'

Abete believes yesterday's events are in stark contrast to what happened when policeman Filippo Raciti was killed after violence broke out at the Sicilian derby match between Catania and Palermo nine months ago.

He said: 'Catania was an organised battle against the police, but this case has nothing to link it to football.

'A football fan has died and this has provoked an attack against the institutions which are not in any way acceptable.

'All of this country should be grateful for what our police force is doing and you cannot demonise their work.'

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=481517&campaign=rss&source=soccernet&cc=4716

Yep, next don't run with your gun u twaty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7097053.stm

old bill geezer to be charged with murder