Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

+13
The Pröfessör
Fey
Allez les rouges
110%
Machiavel
Isco Benny
DS
Puro
A & K
Gigliati
toon h
Deano
bluenine
17 posters

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    bluenine
    bluenine


    Number of posts : 22998
    Age : 50
    Supports : www.footballspeak.com
    Favourite Player : Zanetti
    Registration date : 2006-08-08

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by bluenine Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:28 pm

    Nice article.

    Most azzurri fans know that a tough draw is what makes the team click... Italy always find it difficult to get out of "easy" groups coz of their slow starts, but when faced with top teams, the italians usually do well. Its the mental toughness of the squad. So in that respect, maybe this draw is not a bad thing - it will help Italy to knock out a top contender very early (God, please let that be France!! Wink)

    However, Carlo does have a good point below. This will need Italy to peak earlier than their usual, with aging stars, and might take away a key azzurri advantage - that of peaking at the right time. One thing that Carlo forgets is that Donadoni has a very deep squad with him, and effective rotation will be the most important aspect for a successful campaign, just like Lippi did last summer. So IMO a lot depends on whether Donadoni has the guts to rotate his stars in key games.

    What do you guys think?

    Azzurri Debate: Euro 2008 Draw Bad News For Italy?

    During yesterday’s draw for Euro 2008 the inevitable happened as Italy were drawn in the proverbial ‘Group of Death’. Carlo Garganese believes that the Azzurri will make it through the group but is concerned of the repercussions later in the tournament… A World Cup or European Championships would not be the same without a ‘Group of Death’. Indeed the same fools who decided the ridiculous seedings system for Euro 2008 will be rubbing their hands in glee after seeing a Group C line-up of Italy, France, Holland and Romania. Azzurri boss Roberto Donadoni admitted the draw was difficult but believes his side are ready for it, a stance pretty much taken by FIGC President Giancarlo Abete. “It is a tough group, but I think it is well within our capabilities,” Abete declared.

    Most Italy fans appear to have got it into their heads that La Nazionale are invincible and that the complexity of this group is irrelevant. Of course this is understandable. The Azzurri are the World Champions, they possess the best goalkeeper in the world, the best defence, and a host of world class players. They are also in brilliant form, having won nine of their last 10 qualifiers and finished three points above second-placed France in a very difficult Euro 2008 qualifying group. However I feel that many people are missing out on the bigger picture here. I myself believe that Italy will qualify from the group, however I am concerned by just how much energy this will sap out of the squad in the process.

    The Azzurri’ strength in major tournaments is that they usually start off slowly in the group-stages, slowly move through the gears, before peaking in the later stages when it really matters and when other teams are tiring. This was the case in Germany last summer and was also so in the 1982 World Cup in Spain, when Enzo Bearzot’s men drew all three of their opening group games against Poland, Peru and rank-outsiders Cameroon. In Austria and Switzerland, Italy will not be afforded the luxury of easing their way into the tournament and will have to show an intensity right from their very first game against the Netherlands.

    The repercussions of this, come the quarter-finals and semi-finals, could be ruinous, especially when you consider the age of the Italy team. The ages of the current first-choice Azzurri team come June will be as follows: Buffon (30), Pannucci (35), Cannavaro (34), Materazzi (34), Zambrotta (31), Gattuso (30), Ambrosini (30), Pirlo (29), Camoranesi (31), Di Natale (30), Toni (31). As you can see, only Andrea Pirlo is under the age of 30, and so it remains to be seen if an ageing team can be expected to play six games in just 20 days at such a high intensity. Past tournaments from the past have shown that teams rarely go on and win major championships after being drawn in a ‘Group of Death’.

    The 2006 World cup ‘Group of Death’ consisted of Argentina, Holland, Serbia and Montenegro, and the Ivory Coast. Argentina and Holland qualified for the last 16, however the Oranje were immediately eliminated in the next stage by Portugal. Argentina, who were breathtaking in the group stages, then dropped down a few levels and fortuitously beat Mexico in the second phase, before being defeated by Germany in the quarter-finals. The draw for the knockout stages may help Italy though. If they finish top of their group, they will face the runners-up of a Group D consisting of Greece, Spain, Sweden and Russia. If La Nazionale can avoid Spain, a place in the semi-finals most certainly beckons, where they will then be primed to meet the other qualifier in their group again, maybe France!

    This draw means that Italy cannot face anyone from Group A or Group B until the final, which means no Portugal and no Germany. Of course it must be remembered that once a competition reaches the semi-finals and final, in many respects it is mental strengths more than anything else that prove most important. There is no team in the world that can boast the mental toughness of Italy, so in this respect Donadoni’s men should be fine. However I still fear that the sheer effort that will have to be put in to escape from Group C could prove detrimental in the latter stages.
    Deano
    Deano


    Number of posts : 22042
    Age : 35
    Supports : West Ham United
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Deano Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:03 pm

    A very good draw IMO Bluenine. Last Euro's...it was Sweden, Denmark and Bulgaria...and Italia fucked it up Neutral.

    In this group...there is no room for error, like the WC group which was a tough one...which will mean the players will be up for it more, and will have to give 100%.

    As they are my only team in the Euro's (McClaren is a c**t)...I can say I'm pleased Ale
    toon h
    toon h


    Number of posts : 8715
    Age : 51
    Supports : FC Barcelona
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by toon h Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:08 pm

    I am generally of the opinion that teams that come out of the group of death will suffer burn-out later on in the tournament.
    In that light, things look good for Germany, who I see as favourites, since they are on the easy side of the draw.
    Deano
    Deano


    Number of posts : 22042
    Age : 35
    Supports : West Ham United
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Deano Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:11 pm

    merry poppins wrote:I am generally of the opinion that teams that come out of the group of death will suffer burn-out later on in the tournament.
    In that light, things look good for Germany, who I see as favourites, since they are on the easy side of the draw.

    Could work the opposite way though Toon...if for instance you qualified from this group, your confidence would be very high...as you'd have done well against 3 very good nations. Taking that in a game against Germany...who would have played Poland and Austria...you could have the upper hand.
    Gigliati
    Gigliati


    Number of posts : 151
    Age : 53
    Supports : Fiorentina
    Favourite Player : Batistuta
    Registration date : 2007-03-09

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Gigliati Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:23 am

    I agree with merry poppins here. While initially a tough group should bring out the best from Italy, it will result in a burn out. You cannot play 6 consecutive games at the top of your form in 20 days, and thats a fact. While I am reasonably confident that we will see through this tough group, we will probbaly burn out by the semi finals.

    West Ham Snowman wrote:
    merry poppins wrote:I am generally of the opinion that teams that come out of the group of death will suffer burn-out later on in the tournament.
    In that light, things look good for Germany, who I see as favourites, since they are on the easy side of the draw.

    Could work the opposite way though Toon...if for instance you qualified from this group, your confidence would be very high...as you'd have done well against 3 very good nations. Taking that in a game against Germany...who would have played Poland and Austria...you could have the upper hand.
    avatar
    A & K


    Number of posts : 3347
    Registration date : 2006-08-12

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by A & K Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:43 am

    Germany and Portugal have a great advantage over Italia and France, for the sole reason that they will be able to rest some key players for the third game of the pool, if they have already qualified after the second game played. France, for example, won the W.C and the Euro 2000, because they started well with two victories, so they rested all their best players for the third game. This draw will clearly be an advantage for Big teams in an easier group.
    Puro
    Puro


    Number of posts : 10679
    Registration date : 2006-09-12

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Puro Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:36 am

    Italia's destiny will depend IF the teams in their group really are playing top notch football. We know they're very talented, but will they show up or turn out to be just hype like recent groups of death?

    We were told in WC 2002 that Argentina, England, Nigeria, and Sweden were in a group of death. Far from it, it was all hype! No team did jack in that world cup.

    We were told in WC 2006 that Argentina, Netherlands, Ivory Coast, and Serbia was another group of death. Alright, this one was much better than the one in 2002, but again no team reached the semifinal.

    We were told in WC 1982 that Italia, Perú, Poland, and Cameroon was the group of death. This group really lived up to the hype. Italia won the World Cup and them Poles finished third by defeating France. This group of death really prepared both Italia and Poland for the rest of the campaign.

    Italia were lucky to get out of the group alive. Them Italians should've lost to both Perú and Cameroon, but survived somehow. These games prepared Italia for the remainder of WC 1982, they were tested, battle ready to take on anyone. It was the same for Poland.

    It all depends whether or not Italia's rivals are clicking. If they are firing on all cylinders, and Italia survive, lookout. If it's all a smokescreen, a world of illusions, just hype, the rivals aren't playing at their best, then it could be another repeat of the recent "groups of death". Biggrin <Ale>
    DS
    DS


    Number of posts : 12952
    Age : 39
    Supports : Manchester United , Bayern Munich
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by DS Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:43 am

    Start slowly and you are out that what makes a group , group of death you cant slip up and have to the up for every game and I agree which results in burn outs.
    Isco Benny
    Isco Benny


    Number of posts : 19647
    Age : 44
    Supports : Spurs, FOLLOWS (just for worms): Werder Bremen, Lazio, Ferencvaros, Valencia, El Classico, Angleterre, Magyarorszag
    Favourite Player : Don't cha wish your left back was BAE? Don't cha
    Registration date : 2006-08-08

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Isco Benny Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:05 am

    Puro wrote:Italia's destiny will depend IF the teams in their group really are playing top notch football. We know they're very talented, but will they show up or turn out to be just hype like recent groups of death?

    We were told in WC 2002 that Argentina, England, Nigeria, and Sweden were in a group of death. Far from it, it was all hype! No team did jack in that world cup.

    We were told in WC 2006 that Argentina, Netherlands, Ivory Coast, and Serbia was another group of death. Alright, this one was much better than the one in 2002, but again no team reached the semifinal.

    We were told in WC 1982 that Italia, Perú, Poland, and Cameroon was the group of death. This group really lived up to the hype. Italia won the World Cup and them Poles finished third by defeating France. This group of death really prepared both Italia and Poland for the rest of the campaign.

    Italia were lucky to get out of the group alive. Them Italians should've lost to both Perú and Cameroon, but survived somehow. These games prepared Italia for the remainder of WC 1982, they were tested, battle ready to take on anyone. It was the same for Poland.

    It all depends whether or not Italia's rivals are clicking. If they are firing on all cylinders, and Italia survive, lookout. If it's all a smokescreen, a world of illusions, just hype, the rivals aren't playing at their best, then it could be another repeat of the recent "groups of death". Biggrin <Ale>

    Christ almighty you do talk some $h!t
    Machiavel
    Machiavel


    Number of posts : 21355
    Age : 36
    Supports : AFC Ajax & Manchester United FC
    Favourite Player : Paul Scholes & Wesley Sneijder
    Registration date : 2006-08-06

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Machiavel Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:11 am

    Holland has only beaten Italy once in a competitive game, why should the Italians be afraid ?? still records are there to be broken (I hope to God)
    avatar
    110%


    Number of posts : 8978
    Age : 50
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by 110% Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:09 am

    Dreaming Of A White Tevez wrote:
    Puro wrote:Italia's destiny will depend IF the teams in their group really are playing top notch football. We know they're very talented, but will they show up or turn out to be just hype like recent groups of death?

    We were told in WC 2002 that Argentina, England, Nigeria, and Sweden were in a group of death. Far from it, it was all hype! No team did jack in that world cup.

    We were told in WC 2006 that Argentina, Netherlands, Ivory Coast, and Serbia was another group of death. Alright, this one was much better than the one in 2002, but again no team reached the semifinal.

    We were told in WC 1982 that Italia, Perú, Poland, and Cameroon was the group of death. This group really lived up to the hype. Italia won the World Cup and them Poles finished third by defeating France. This group of death really prepared both Italia and Poland for the rest of the campaign.

    Italia were lucky to get out of the group alive. Them Italians should've lost to both Perú and Cameroon, but survived somehow. These games prepared Italia for the remainder of WC 1982, they were tested, battle ready to take on anyone. It was the same for Poland.

    It all depends whether or not Italia's rivals are clicking. If they are firing on all cylinders, and Italia survive, lookout. If it's all a smokescreen, a world of illusions, just hype, the rivals aren't playing at their best, then it could be another repeat of the recent "groups of death". Biggrin <Ale>

    Christ almighty you do talk some $h!t

    I fear he will have nothing to post about during the euro comp since england are not there, so he ahs to crowbar comments about english hype into other national team threads.

    What I did find interesting about the original post though is that it said if they finish top of the group and avoid spain then they'll qualify for the next round. I dont think Greece, Sweden or Russia are exactly easy and any of them could be in 1st or 2nd place. There are no easy matches in the euros and this is even more true once out of the group stages.
    Allez les rouges
    Allez les rouges


    Number of posts : 8098
    Age : 108
    Supports : Deutschland, Arsenal
    Favourite Player : Jens Lehmann
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Allez les rouges Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:23 am

    Be nice if people could post link to articles they refer to!

    Yeah it could work both ways, and indeed in such a genuine "group of death" everyone has a chance. Romania could quite easily spoil the party, and Italy are at risk of going out without playing badly, or even without losing a game, as they've done in the past – they need to try to win games they'd usually be happy to draw.

    The most salient point seems to be whether such an ageing team, with only Pirlo under 30, will be up to the task of playing six high-octane games in 20 days. Will Donadoni really pick such an aged first team as the author seems to suggest?!
    bluenine
    bluenine


    Number of posts : 22998
    Age : 50
    Supports : www.footballspeak.com
    Favourite Player : Zanetti
    Registration date : 2006-08-08

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by bluenine Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:25 pm

    I posted the whole article, but if you wanna check it out:
    http://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=501442

    I think Donadoni will pick that aged team, in Italy that is looked upon as an advantage to have experience. But like I said before, the key for Donadoni will be to rotate the squad and give some players rest in between. Italy have the depth, Lippi did this so well in the WC. But with a tough group, Donadoni may not have the guts to rest a few stars every game... that would certainly lead to burnout and disaster!!

    Allez les rouges wrote:Be nice if people could post link to articles they refer to!

    Yeah it could work both ways, and indeed in such a genuine "group of death" everyone has a chance. Romania could quite easily spoil the party, and Italy are at risk of going out without playing badly, or even without losing a game, as they've done in the past – they need to try to win games they'd usually be happy to draw.

    The most salient point seems to be whether such an ageing team, with only Pirlo under 30, will be up to the task of playing six high-octane games in 20 days. Will Donadoni really pick such an aged first team as the author seems to suggest?!
    Allez les rouges
    Allez les rouges


    Number of posts : 8098
    Age : 108
    Supports : Deutschland, Arsenal
    Favourite Player : Jens Lehmann
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Allez les rouges Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:39 pm

    Yeah sorry, just a bugbear of mine when people copy/paste without giving links, I found it anyway Wink

    Will be interesting to see – surely Italy have the depth to rotate? To what extent is there a settled 1st XI? Has Grosso been edged out? Is Panucci really making a comeback? Is Ambrosini really a first-teamer? Or Camoranesi? What about Perrotta? Is it really going to be the ancient Cannavaro/Materazzi next summer in defence?

    All these questions... I understand about experience but this team really is VERY old. Putting the victory of last summer aside, is it right for expectations to be higher than at previous tournaments where Italy have crashed and burned? Is this a better side than, say, 2004?
    Fey
    Fey


    Number of posts : 35349
    Supports : Feyenoord and Manchester United
    Favourite Player : ??#$ Error, John Guidetti, Jordy Clasie
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Fey Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:45 pm

    The favourite never wins the tourny anyway...so it's hard to predict. Since the draw with Italy they showed the EUro2000 match endless again, which is nice cause I missed ALL the Holland matches in 2000...god we were unlucky that day!
    Allez les rouges
    Allez les rouges


    Number of posts : 8098
    Age : 108
    Supports : Deutschland, Arsenal
    Favourite Player : Jens Lehmann
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Allez les rouges Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:51 pm

    Great, GREAT football match. Superb rearguard catenaccio action. You've gotta score your penalties I suppose!

    And lovely little chip from Totti to finish it all off...

    The English commentators with their typical wanking over the Dutch and laying into Italy's "anti-football" (with ten men!!) couldn't've been more wrong...
    bluenine
    bluenine


    Number of posts : 22998
    Age : 50
    Supports : www.footballspeak.com
    Favourite Player : Zanetti
    Registration date : 2006-08-08

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by bluenine Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:39 pm

    It may not be a better side, but its a side with more belief. Also this side does not depend as much on key individuals as the previous editions - this side is very flexible, and IMO there are very few sure starters.

    But every coach has a starting XI or 9/10 at least... hopefully donadoni will rotate, coz a Pannuci can always give Oddo a reat, Chiellini can do that dor Zambo, De Rossi, Ambrosini, Perrotta & Gattuso can take turns to be the 2 who partner Pirlo, Aquilani can even give Pirlo a rest. barzagli can be used to rotate Matrix and Cannavaro. All 6 strikers can be rotated like in the WC where all 6 scored at least a goal. Its this flexibility that gave Italy the edge in the WC, and I hope Donadoni realises that.

    To answer your other questions:
    Has Grosso been edged out? - Yes

    Is Panucci really making a comeback? - Clearly, but as a sub for Oddo who is not too young himself!

    Is Ambrosini really a first-teamer? - Only when a more defensive tactical system is required

    Or Camoranesi? - most likely, yes.

    What about Perrotta? - Camo is prefered over him in an advanced role, and Amrosini in a defensive role. But he could sub either.

    Is it really going to be the ancient Cannavaro/Materazzi next summer in defence? - Most likely. However Barzagli's performances for the azzurri have been extremely good, he could break in. A lot depends on Materazzi's form once he is back from the injury... he is yet to start a game this season.

    Allez les rouges wrote:Yeah sorry, just a bugbear of mine when people copy/paste without giving links, I found it anyway Wink

    Will be interesting to see – surely Italy have the depth to rotate? To what extent is there a settled 1st XI? Has Grosso been edged out? Is Panucci really making a comeback? Is Ambrosini really a first-teamer? Or Camoranesi? What about Perrotta? Is it really going to be the ancient Cannavaro/Materazzi next summer in defence?

    All these questions... I understand about experience but this team really is VERY old. Putting the victory of last summer aside, is it right for expectations to be higher than at previous tournaments where Italy have crashed and burned? Is this a better side than, say, 2004?
    Allez les rouges
    Allez les rouges


    Number of posts : 8098
    Age : 108
    Supports : Deutschland, Arsenal
    Favourite Player : Jens Lehmann
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Allez les rouges Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:02 pm

    Kool, thanks for all the answers! Haven't been able to see Italy lately apart from the Scotland game, what with my own priorities...

    Interesting about Grosso after his World Cup last year... what's been going on with him at Lyon?
    Puro
    Puro


    Number of posts : 10679
    Registration date : 2006-09-12

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Puro Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:07 pm

    Dreaming Of A White Tevez wrote:
    Puro wrote:Italia's destiny will depend IF the teams in their group really are playing top notch football. We know they're very talented, but will they show up or turn out to be just hype like recent groups of death?

    We were told in WC 2002 that Argentina, England, Nigeria, and Sweden were in a group of death. Far from it, it was all hype! No team did jack in that world cup.

    We were told in WC 2006 that Argentina, Netherlands, Ivory Coast, and Serbia was another group of death. Alright, this one was much better than the one in 2002, but again no team reached the semifinal.

    We were told in WC 1982 that Italia, Perú, Poland, and Cameroon was the group of death. This group really lived up to the hype. Italia won the World Cup and them Poles finished third by defeating France. This group of death really prepared both Italia and Poland for the rest of the campaign.

    Italia were lucky to get out of the group alive. Them Italians should've lost to both Perú and Cameroon, but survived somehow. These games prepared Italia for the remainder of WC 1982, they were tested, battle ready to take on anyone. It was the same for Poland.

    It all depends whether or not Italia's rivals are clicking. If they are firing on all cylinders, and Italia survive, lookout. If it's all a smokescreen, a world of illusions, just hype, the rivals aren't playing at their best, then it could be another repeat of the recent "groups of death". Biggrin <Ale>

    Christ almighty you do talk some $h!t

    Biggrin OH FFS! Not you again! Otto was right about you, you will never get it. Still convinced England has "7 or 8 world class players plus Rooney"! lol!
    The Pröfessör
    The Pröfessör


    Number of posts : 10076
    Age : 74
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by The Pröfessör Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:29 pm

    Any Dutch, French or Italian fan who thinks this draw is good for them is deluding himself Ale
    Super Progress
    Super Progress


    Number of posts : 15429
    Age : 35
    Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
    Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Super Progress Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:22 pm

    bluenine wrote:It may not be a better side, but its a side with more belief. Also this side does not depend as much on key individuals as the previous editions - this side is very flexible, and IMO there are very few sure starters.

    But every coach has a starting XI or 9/10 at least... hopefully donadoni will rotate, coz a Pannuci can always give Oddo a reat, Chiellini can do that dor Zambo, De Rossi, Ambrosini, Perrotta & Gattuso can take turns to be the 2 who partner Pirlo, Aquilani can even give Pirlo a rest. barzagli can be used to rotate Matrix and Cannavaro. All 6 strikers can be rotated like in the WC where all 6 scored at least a goal. Its this flexibility that gave Italy the edge in the WC, and I hope Donadoni realises that.

    To answer your other questions:
    Has Grosso been edged out? - Yes

    Is Panucci really making a comeback? - Clearly, but as a sub for Oddo who is not too young himself!

    Is Ambrosini really a first-teamer? - Only when a more defensive tactical system is required

    Or Camoranesi? - most likely, yes.

    What about Perrotta? - Camo is prefered over him in an advanced role, and Amrosini in a defensive role. But he could sub either.

    Is it really going to be the ancient Cannavaro/Materazzi next summer in defence? - Most likely. However Barzagli's performances for the azzurri have been extremely good, he could break in. A lot depends on Materazzi's form once he is back from the injury... he is yet to start a game this season.

    Allez les rouges wrote:Yeah sorry, just a bugbear of mine when people copy/paste without giving links, I found it anyway Wink

    Will be interesting to see – surely Italy have the depth to rotate? To what extent is there a settled 1st XI? Has Grosso been edged out? Is Panucci really making a comeback? Is Ambrosini really a first-teamer? Or Camoranesi? What about Perrotta? Is it really going to be the ancient Cannavaro/Materazzi next summer in defence?

    All these questions... I understand about experience but this team really is VERY old. Putting the victory of last summer aside, is it right for expectations to be higher than at previous tournaments where Italy have crashed and burned? Is this a better side than, say, 2004?
    I wouldnt count cassano out of this. if he can just become a bit stable i think he could take over from totti in the creative forward role. i also hope Aquilani makes impact since i think some new players will have to break through in order for italy to surprise other teams. i can see italy lacking some creativity if both Ambrosini+Camoranesi+Gattuso play. I honestly hope Pannuci doesnt get in the squad. i can still remember him against korea Grr
    Ricardo Jol
    Ricardo Jol


    Number of posts : 12766
    Age : 46
    Supports : FC Den Haag!
    Favourite Player : Verhoek and Verhoek and Rado and the euro!
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Ricardo Jol Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:32 pm

    Raifael wrote:Holland has only beaten Italy once in a competitive game, why should the Italians be afraid ?? still records are there to be broken (I hope to God)

    But then how many competitive games we've lost in regular time?

    3 games

    1 draw 0-0 euro 2000
    1 win 2-1 WC 78
    1 loss 1-0 EC qualifying 75

    So it is even!
    Deano
    Deano


    Number of posts : 22042
    Age : 35
    Supports : West Ham United
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Deano Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:12 pm

    Agooner wrote:Any Dutch, French or Italian fan who thinks this draw is good for them is deluding himself Ale

    Erm...No, I gave my reason FFS. You don't understand at all Agooner. Italy always play better against the better teams...

    So your post is absolute bullshit.
    Ricardo Jol
    Ricardo Jol


    Number of posts : 12766
    Age : 46
    Supports : FC Den Haag!
    Favourite Player : Verhoek and Verhoek and Rado and the euro!
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Ricardo Jol Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:13 pm

    That's exact the same the Dutch always say... Erm
    avatar
    A & K


    Number of posts : 3347
    Registration date : 2006-08-12

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by A & K Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:12 am

    West Ham Snowman wrote:
    Agooner wrote:Any Dutch, French or Italian fan who thinks this draw is good for them is deluding himself Ale

    Erm...No, I gave my reason FFS. You don't understand at all Agooner. Italy always play better against the better teams...

    So your post is absolute bullshit.

    Well, obviously great teams play better against better team that's why they are great. But let's face it any team would prefer to be in an easy group rather than in difficult one where there is no room for mistakes. Yes, Italy plays better against good teams, but so does France and Holland.
    avatar
    Di Caniooooo!


    Number of posts : 10829
    Age : 38
    Supports : West Ham
    Favourite Player : Paolo Di Canio, Moore, Hurst, Peters
    Registration date : 2007-03-24

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Di Caniooooo! Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:24 am

    Welcome to the life of the Scot's we usually get the shaft during the draws.
    bluenine
    bluenine


    Number of posts : 22998
    Age : 50
    Supports : www.footballspeak.com
    Favourite Player : Zanetti
    Registration date : 2006-08-08

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by bluenine Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:16 am

    I agree, dude, a tough draw can never be preferable to an easy one. There is no question about that.

    On the other hand, Italy have the best record in head-to-head games against the big4. Which is not a surprise to anyone who has been following this game for a while. Coz against top sides, somehow the Italians deliver more often than not. Hence IMO a tough draw impacts Italy less than it impact some other nations.

    That said, Italy are usually slow starters, and a slow start in a group like this means certain elimination. Thats what scares me the most.

    Alive and Kicking wrote:
    West Ham Snowman wrote:
    Agooner wrote:Any Dutch, French or Italian fan who thinks this draw is good for them is deluding himself Ale

    Erm...No, I gave my reason FFS. You don't understand at all Agooner. Italy always play better against the better teams...

    So your post is absolute bullshit.

    Well, obviously great teams play better against better team that's why they are great. But let's face it any team would prefer to be in an easy group rather than in difficult one where there is no room for mistakes. Yes, Italy plays better against good teams, but so does France and Holland.
    Deano
    Deano


    Number of posts : 22042
    Age : 35
    Supports : West Ham United
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Deano Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:20 pm

    bluenine wrote:I agree, dude, a tough draw can never be preferable to an easy one. There is no question about that.

    On the other hand, Italy have the best record in head-to-head games against the big4. Which is not a surprise to anyone who has been following this game for a while. Coz against top sides, somehow the Italians deliver more often than not. Hence IMO a tough draw impacts Italy less than it impact some other nations.

    That said, Italy are usually slow starters, and a slow start in a group like this means certain elimination. Thats what scares me the most.

    Alive and Kicking wrote:
    West Ham Snowman wrote:
    Agooner wrote:Any Dutch, French or Italian fan who thinks this draw is good for them is deluding himself Ale

    Erm...No, I gave my reason FFS. You don't understand at all Agooner. Italy always play better against the better teams...

    So your post is absolute bullshit.

    Well, obviously great teams play better against better team that's why they are great. But let's face it any team would prefer to be in an easy group rather than in difficult one where there is no room for mistakes. Yes, Italy plays better against good teams, but so does France and Holland.

    Why does it make any difference?

    Couldn't get out of a group with Sweden, Denmark and Bulgaria last time...

    Yet easily qualified from a group with Czech Republic, Ghana and USA...
    bluenine
    bluenine


    Number of posts : 22998
    Age : 50
    Supports : www.footballspeak.com
    Favourite Player : Zanetti
    Registration date : 2006-08-08

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by bluenine Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:34 am

    Donadoni has done away with the creative forward role since Totti retired, and tbh now I think Italy look better without one. This allows Italy to play with 3 strikers, and 2 of them are hardworking ones who double up as wingers and 1 is a target man. This system works much better than having a creative forward behind the target man, coz you end up relying too much on the creative forward.

    Pannuci against Korea, grrrrr... but to be fair, he was being played as a CB as Nesta & Cannavaor were not available and Matrix looked very iffy in the group game - Italy actually played that game with 4 fullbacks!!

    supermadrid wrote:
    I wouldnt count cassano out of this. if he can just become a bit stable i think he could take over from totti in the creative forward role. i also hope Aquilani makes impact since i think some new players will have to break through in order for italy to surprise other teams. i can see italy lacking some creativity if both Ambrosini+Camoranesi+Gattuso play. I honestly hope Pannuci doesnt get in the squad. i can still remember him against korea Grr
    Super Progress
    Super Progress


    Number of posts : 15429
    Age : 35
    Supports : Real Madrid + Mierda inchada en un palo
    Favourite Player : Laudrup,Cassano,Totti, Zidane,Marcelo, Pepe!,Guti, PROGRESS
    Registration date : 2006-08-07

    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Super Progress Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:09 pm

    bluenine wrote:Donadoni has done away with the creative forward role since Totti retired, and tbh now I think Italy look better without one. This allows Italy to play with 3 strikers, and 2 of them are hardworking ones who double up as wingers and 1 is a target man. This system works much better than having a creative forward behind the target man, coz you end up relying too much on the creative forward.

    Pannuci against Korea, grrrrr... but to be fair, he was being played as a CB as Nesta & Cannavaor were not available and Matrix looked very iffy in the group game - Italy actually played that game with 4 fullbacks!!

    supermadrid wrote:
    I wouldnt count cassano out of this. if he can just become a bit stable i think he could take over from totti in the creative forward role. i also hope Aquilani makes impact since i think some new players will have to break through in order for italy to surprise other teams. i can see italy lacking some creativity if both Ambrosini+Camoranesi+Gattuso play. I honestly hope Pannuci doesnt get in the squad. i can still remember him against korea Grr
    they have been very effective and i get your point. i want cassano for what he brings to the game which is more flair. i want italy to play like they were intending to do in euro 2004 which in the start looked very bright imo. the current side is a bit too pragmatic and boring for my taste. i think that if they going to play with the system you mentioned then they should at least use players in midfield that can help out more in the creative part of the game. for example they should maybe de rossi instead of ambrosini. they relie to heavily on pirlo. hopefully Iaquinta keeps up then he would be hard to denie a place in the first team instead of cameranesi.

    Sponsored content


    Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances? Empty Re: Azzurri Debate: How does the draw impact Azzurri's chances?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:23 am