Barcelona - Real Madrid anticipation thread (December 23rd)

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:I am actually very happy Guti isn't playing. Guti can make some great passes whereas Baptista and Sneijder are very convential but with some great shots.

I am confident that our defense and Touré and Guddy can take care of 2 hardworker conventional players.

That´s true, but don´t forget who´s playing in goal for you. Having 2 players who are good at long range shots against Butterfingers Valdes is hardly something to be relaxed about.

Also, Gudjonssen

Have you forgotten last year´s clasico already? A couple of decent games againt Cr@p teams hardly means Gudjonssen in on form.

supermadrid wrote:the problem i see we have with guti sometimes is that diarra+other midfields only look for him and this makes it easy to mark guti. but that is mostly against the small sides.against barca guti would get the space he needs plus snejider tends to dissappear too much. good thing about snejider that he runs more and not just in the defensive part but also ofensivily which guti doesnt in the same way. we can play very direct now and if baptista and snejider gets space they should just shoot the hell out of valdes.

Exactly. One of Guti´s biggest flaws is that he´s awful in ¨desmarques¨. He really has no clue how to get away from his markers and make space for other players. If you watch Iniesta and Xavi, they pass the ball and never stop moving. They´re all over the field making it very tough for opponents to keep track on them.

Guti is the total opposite. He passes the ball and plants himself in the same spot until he gets it back.

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:I am actually very happy Guti isn't playing. Guti can make some great passes whereas Baptista and Sneijder are very convential but with some great shots.

I am confident that our defense and Touré and Guddy can take care of 2 hardworker conventional players.

Guddy has not been playing great but he has worked hard and while inesta or deco would provide more creative guddy gives your team more work ethic imo. his problem is as you prob know that he doesnt get all those combos the others like to make.

This could be the game Sneijder shows he is the man.

Torrente wrote:

supermadrid wrote:the problem i see we have with guti sometimes is that diarra+other midfields only look for him and this makes it easy to mark guti. but that is mostly against the small sides.against barca guti would get the space he needs plus snejider tends to dissappear too much. good thing about snejider that he runs more and not just in the defensive part but also ofensivily which guti doesnt in the same way. we can play very direct now and if baptista and snejider gets space they should just shoot the hell out of valdes.

Exactly. One of Guti´s biggest flaws is that he´s awful in ¨desmarques¨. He really has no clue how to get away from his markers and make space for other players. If you watch Iniesta and Xavi, they pass the ball and never stop moving. They´re all over the field making it very tough for opponents to keep track on them.

Guti is the total opposite. He passes the ball and plants himself in the same spot until he gets it back.

The deeper problem is that Guti is the only one on our team who can distribute the ball. So the other team sticks one guy on him, the manager tells him to kick the sh!t out of Guti and that's how you stop Madrid. With Barcelona, you can't just try to mark Xavi out of the game because there is Iniesta or Deco, etc. Guti played a marvelous match last year in the Camp Nou and is generally up for this sort of game. We would be better off with him.

johan the baptist wrote:This could be the game Sneijder shows he is the man.

His set pieces could be a key in the match. He's been steadily improving after a really poor run; hopefully he isn't overwhelmed by the occasion.

johan the baptist wrote:This could be the game Sneijder shows he is the man.

hopefully he will. he has seemed as if he has been a bit unsharp in some games and gives too many passes away but we have raised our expectations for him because of the way he started that we might have forgotten that he is still new to the team. but he has some basics like work ethic both offensivily and defensively which is great thing to build off. plus he change a game with his shoots and freekicks. so im hoping he will shine instead if hiding. he did perform well against 2 good teams we have meet this season(atletico+villarreal).

Jaime wrote:

Torrente wrote:

supermadrid wrote:the problem i see we have with guti sometimes is that diarra+other midfields only look for him and this makes it easy to mark guti. but that is mostly against the small sides.against barca guti would get the space he needs plus snejider tends to dissappear too much. good thing about snejider that he runs more and not just in the defensive part but also ofensivily which guti doesnt in the same way. we can play very direct now and if baptista and snejider gets space they should just shoot the hell out of valdes.

Exactly. One of Guti´s biggest flaws is that he´s awful in ¨desmarques¨. He really has no clue how to get away from his markers and make space for other players. If you watch Iniesta and Xavi, they pass the ball and never stop moving. They´re all over the field making it very tough for opponents to keep track on them.

Guti is the total opposite. He passes the ball and plants himself in the same spot until he gets it back.

The deeper problem is that Guti is the only one on our team who can distribute the ball. So the other team sticks one guy on him, the manager tells him to kick the sh!t out of Guti and that's how you stop Madrid. With Barcelona, you can't just try to mark Xavi out of the game because there is Iniesta or Deco, etc. Guti played a marvelous match last year in the Camp Nou and is generally up for this sort of game. We would be better off with him.

what makes this game easier is that guti will more space if played and he could be able to dictate the game like he wants because barca dont tend to pay much attention to him. the thing is that this game prob be more of a battle with the way barca are playing in midfield and this suggest we should use snejider+baptista.

Jaime wrote:

Torrente wrote:

supermadrid wrote:the problem i see we have with guti sometimes is that diarra+other midfields only look for him and this makes it easy to mark guti. but that is mostly against the small sides.against barca guti would get the space he needs plus snejider tends to dissappear too much. good thing about snejider that he runs more and not just in the defensive part but also ofensivily which guti doesnt in the same way. we can play very direct now and if baptista and snejider gets space they should just shoot the hell out of valdes.

Exactly. One of Guti´s biggest flaws is that he´s awful in ¨desmarques¨. He really has no clue how to get away from his markers and make space for other players. If you watch Iniesta and Xavi, they pass the ball and never stop moving. They´re all over the field making it very tough for opponents to keep track on them.

Guti is the total opposite. He passes the ball and plants himself in the same spot until he gets it back.

The deeper problem is that Guti is the only one on our team who can distribute the ball. So the other team sticks one guy on him, the manager tells him to kick the sh!t out of Guti and that's how you stop Madrid. With Barcelona, you can't just try to mark Xavi out of the game because there is Iniesta or Deco, etc. Guti played a marvelous match last year in the Camp Nou and is generally up for this sort of game. We would be better off with him.

I agree that Guti normally plays well in these games, but I think his distribution is decent, but nothing more. Every game he tries too many Hollywood passes that fail and he often holds on to the ball for too long only to make a simple backwards pass.

To me, Guti isn´t a real center midfielder. He´s more of a media punta who puts in great through balls for the strikers. Every time Guti drops deep to bring up the ball, little good comes off it.

But like I said, I would like him to at least be on the bench because he´s a great option to have. But to me, Guti should in principle be nothing more than a super sub for a team like Madrid. His creative abilities tend to be overstated due to our lack of options in this area.

golsud wrote:You going to the game Oleguer?

No such luck.. And I can't really afford the 350 that I have been offered a ticket for..

What about you?

Torrente
the problem with guti is that he is inconsistent but also he is a bit alone in this team. also we dont have the same movement and we just give the ball to guti all the times but this isnt gutis foult but the other players. if barca only used xavi and there wasnt alot of movement like with us then he would struggle aswell imo. diarra and baptista arent creative enough and esp diarra always passes to guti no matter if he behind him and this ruins it more for guti then it helps. our team would work best( in theory atleast) with gago-baptista-guti because this way we have somone to distribute the ball in gago and someone to provide strength+directness in baptista and with guti someone that can connect with the strikers.

Torrente wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:I am actually very happy Guti isn't playing. Guti can make some great passes whereas Baptista and Sneijder are very convential but with some great shots.

I am confident that our defense and Touré and Guddy can take care of 2 hardworker conventional players.

That´s true, but don´t forget who´s playing in goal for you. Having 2 players who are good at long range shots against Butterfingers Valdes is hardly something to be relaxed about.

Also, Gudjonssen

Have you forgotten last year´s clasico already? A couple of decent games againt Cr@p teams hardly means Gudjonssen in on form.

Naah not too worried because I doubt you will see much of the ball with that midfield. The main issue will be set pieces as usual..

As for Guddy, he might not be as talented as Deco, but since he is in better shape at the moment, the fact that he can be very useful at corners and that he works very very hard means that he should get the spot ahead of Deco..

(and Lyon are hardly Cr@p now are they )

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

Torrente wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:I am actually very happy Guti isn't playing. Guti can make some great passes whereas Baptista and Sneijder are very convential but with some great shots.

I am confident that our defense and Touré and Guddy can take care of 2 hardworker conventional players.

That´s true, but don´t forget who´s playing in goal for you. Having 2 players who are good at long range shots against Butterfingers Valdes is hardly something to be relaxed about.

Also, Gudjonssen

Have you forgotten last year´s clasico already? A couple of decent games againt Cr@p teams hardly means Gudjonssen in on form.

Naah not too worried because I doubt you will see much of the ball with that midfield. The main issue will be set pieces as usual..

As for Guddy, he might not be as talented as Deco, but since he is in better shape at the moment, the fact that he can be very useful at corners and that he works very very hard means that he should get the spot ahead of Deco..

(and Lyon are hardly Cr@p now are they )

i agree that he actually makes the team better with his presence but it will be harder to pass the ball around with only xavi in that midfield.

Torrente wrote:I agree that Guti normally plays well in these games, but I think his distribution is decent, but nothing more. Every game he tries too many Hollywood passes that fail and he often holds on to the ball for too long only to make a simple backwards pass.

To me, Guti isn´t a real center midfielder. He´s more of a media punta who puts in great through balls for the strikers. Every time Guti drops deep to bring up the ball, little good comes off it.

But like I said, I would like him to at least be on the bench because he´s a great option to have. But to me, Guti should in principle be nothing more than a super sub for a team like Madrid. His creative abilities tend to be overstated due to our lack of options in this area.

I think you are being very harsh here. You think Sneijder or Baptista is a centre midfielder? They are both mediapuntas as well. Of the options to play that we have Guti is, by far, the most capable of dictating the play and playing creative passes to the forwards. If you think Guti passes backwards too much, then what will we do when we only have Diarra to get the ball going from deep because Baptista and Sneijder aren't going to drop that far. If we play Diarra-Baptista-Sneijder we are going to be bypassing midfield for most of the game and hoping that our five attackers can take their chances in the attacking third. That may be the best strategy in the Camp Nou because Barcelona will inevitably have more of the ball anyhow, but don't pretend like our midfield play would be worse with Guti.

I would agree with that midfield in principle against some teams. But playing without a real DM against Barcelona would be suicide at this point. I know Gago played as a lone DM in Boca, but he doesn´t look ready to do that for us just yet.

I would still bet on Diarra. On form, he can be instrumental for us. He´s played quite well in the past couple of games so his bad patch looks to be over. I expect him to play well against Barcelona.

Torrente wrote:I would agree with that midfield in principle against some teams. But playing without a real DM against Barcelona would be suicide at this point. I know Gago played as a lone DM in Boca, but he doesn´t look ready to do that for us just yet.

I would still bet on Diarra. On form, he can be instrumental for us. He´s played quite well in the past couple of games so his bad patch looks to be over. I expect him to play well against Barcelona.

First of all i dont think any team really needs a Dm to be honest. we just need some strength and someone to sit back as gago would. as long as gago doesnt run to much forward we should be fine. we kept barca at bay in 2006 when we played guti-baptista. as long as baptista works enough then we would be fine.

supermadrid wrote:

Torrente wrote:I would agree with that midfield in principle against some teams. But playing without a real DM against Barcelona would be suicide at this point. I know Gago played as a lone DM in Boca, but he doesn´t look ready to do that for us just yet.

I would still bet on Diarra. On form, he can be instrumental for us. He´s played quite well in the past couple of games so his bad patch looks to be over. I expect him to play well against Barcelona.

First of all i dont think any team really needs a Dm to be honest. we just need some strength and someone to sit back as gago would. as long as gago doesnt run to much forward we should be fine. we kept barca at bay in 2006 when we played guti-baptista. as long as baptista works enough then we would be fine.

Here, here! The defensive midfielder, what a terrible invention! Gago actually is more tactically disciplined than Diarra but for some reason everyone seems to buy into the theory that it's better to have some who can physically impose themselves rather than have a good footballer as the holding midfielder.

supermadrid wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

Torrente wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:I am actually very happy Guti isn't playing. Guti can make some great passes whereas Baptista and Sneijder are very convential but with some great shots.

I am confident that our defense and Touré and Guddy can take care of 2 hardworker conventional players.

That´s true, but don´t forget who´s playing in goal for you. Having 2 players who are good at long range shots against Butterfingers Valdes is hardly something to be relaxed about.

Also, Gudjonssen

Have you forgotten last year´s clasico already? A couple of decent games againt Cr@p teams hardly means Gudjonssen in on form.

Naah not too worried because I doubt you will see much of the ball with that midfield. The main issue will be set pieces as usual..

As for Guddy, he might not be as talented as Deco, but since he is in better shape at the moment, the fact that he can be very useful at corners and that he works very very hard means that he should get the spot ahead of Deco..

(and Lyon are hardly Cr@p now are they )

i agree that he actually makes the team better with his presence but it will be harder to pass the ball around with only xavi in that midfield.

Guddy and Iniesta usually change positions a lot when they are playing in the same team, so I am guessing that Iniesta will go into midfield if Xavi is too heavily marked.

Jaime wrote:

Torrente wrote:I agree that Guti normally plays well in these games, but I think his distribution is decent, but nothing more. Every game he tries too many Hollywood passes that fail and he often holds on to the ball for too long only to make a simple backwards pass.

To me, Guti isn´t a real center midfielder. He´s more of a media punta who puts in great through balls for the strikers. Every time Guti drops deep to bring up the ball, little good comes off it.

But like I said, I would like him to at least be on the bench because he´s a great option to have. But to me, Guti should in principle be nothing more than a super sub for a team like Madrid. His creative abilities tend to be overstated due to our lack of options in this area.

I think you are being very harsh here. You think Sneijder or Baptista is a centre midfielder? They are both mediapuntas as well. Of the options to play that we have Guti is, by far, the most capable of dictating the play and playing creative passes to the forwards. If you think Guti passes backwards too much, then what will we do when we only have Diarra to get the ball going from deep because Baptista and Sneijder aren't going to drop that far. If we play Diarra-Baptista-Sneijder we are going to be bypassing midfield for most of the game and hoping that our five attackers can take their chances in the attacking third. That may be the best strategy in the Camp Nou because Barcelona will inevitably have more of the ball anyhow, but don't pretend like our midfield play would be worse with Guti.

That´s what I´m talking about. I think we need a more direct approach against Barcelona, and the likes of Sneijder and Baptista can provide this better than Guti. They may be media puntas as well and they may be behind Guti in distribution and creativity, but they compensate this to some extent by their ability to bring the ball forward. Baptista and Sneijder are very quick with the ball on their feet and Baptista´s raw power allows him to drill through the opposition. Guti runs in slow motion and the last time he got past a player Franco was still in power.

Even in last year´s 2 clasicos where we played very well (and Guti did too), let´s not kid ourselves. Barcelona owned our midfield. This is something that will keep happening until we get somebody like Alonso or Cesc, or Gago gets his act together.

I´m not saying that Bapsista and Sneijder are any guarantees, but they´ve played well together in the last few games and they deserve a chance. If Barcelona rapes us on Sunday and we get slaughtered, I´ll be here to admit I was wrong. But at the moment I do hold the opinion that a Sneijder-Baptista combo is preferable to Guti with either of the 2.

Did it completely escape you Madridistas how little your midfield of Baptista and Sneijder managed against Osasuna???

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:Did it completely escape you Madridistas how little your midfield of Baptista and Sneijder managed against Osasuna???

I think the team as a whole wasn't really bothered with that match, just interested in getting the three points sin despeinarse and then getting on to the clasico. But there hasn't been one match, with exception maybe of Racing, since Schuster has gone to Diarra-Baptista-Sneijder where we dominated in midfield.

Jaime wrote:

supermadrid wrote:

Torrente wrote:I would agree with that midfield in principle against some teams. But playing without a real DM against Barcelona would be suicide at this point. I know Gago played as a lone DM in Boca, but he doesn´t look ready to do that for us just yet.

I would still bet on Diarra. On form, he can be instrumental for us. He´s played quite well in the past couple of games so his bad patch looks to be over. I expect him to play well against Barcelona.

First of all i dont think any team really needs a Dm to be honest. we just need some strength and someone to sit back as gago would. as long as gago doesnt run to much forward we should be fine. we kept barca at bay in 2006 when we played guti-baptista. as long as baptista works enough then we would be fine.

Here, here! The defensive midfielder, what a terrible invention! Gago actually is more tactically disciplined than Diarra but for some reason everyone seems to buy into the theory that it's better to have some who can physically impose themselves rather than have a good footballer as the holding midfielder.

I remember valdano explaning this in interview with danish tv. since we lost makelele everybody were on our back about it for such a long time and then we got gravesen(not really DM) and pablo garica. And it didnt really help. look at man utd they play without one and roma use de rossi who is imo a box to box player. as long as players are willing to work and can also provide some strength then we are fine. i would go with a gago-baptista-guti where guti would be allowed not to work so much and raul would cover him a bit.

VALDANO = GOD

Jaime wrote:VALDANO = GOD

if i were elected president the first thing i woul do is hire him to oversee the sporting section. he did get a few things wrong though when he was here. i believe he was the reason hierro+del bosque had to go. allthough to be honest i think he is best at analysing when he is maybe not inside the club since it tends to make people believe their hype. maybe like a consulent. in the same interview he was also going on about how the redondo=gago comparison was stupid because they arrived at different times and with different backgrounds. the only i can remember that has been as accurate about us, or close to it, is Laudrup.

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

golsud wrote:You going to the game Oleguer?

No such luck.. And I can't really afford the 350 that I have been offered a ticket for..

What about you?

Fucking touts! I hate the people who use their season ticket/membership card as a business, they should be banned from the club.

This season the reyes magos got me the ticket for the clasico

golsud wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

golsud wrote:You going to the game Oleguer?

No such luck.. And I can't really afford the 350 that I have been offered a ticket for..

What about you?

Fucking touts! I hate the people who use their season ticket/membership card as a business, they should be banned from the club.

This season the reyes magos got me the ticket for the clasico

Are you on the waiting list to become a member?

I am a member already. There is a waiting list for season tickets but it's less reliable than AS & Marca.

golsud wrote:

Oleguerisntthatbad wrote:

golsud wrote:You going to the game Oleguer?

No such luck.. And I can't really afford the 350 that I have been offered a ticket for..

What about you?

Fucking touts! I hate the people who use their season ticket/membership card as a business, they should be banned from the club.

This season the reyes magos got me the ticket for the clasico

lucky bastard

golsud wrote:I am a member already. There is a waiting list for season tickets but it's less reliable than AS & Marca and SPORT.

How does it work there? does the older members get tickets first or is just random?

It's completely random. Yesterday morning they released about a 1,000 for members without season tickets, I managed to buy 2 for mates.