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26 posters

    Juve 'sign' Van Der Vaart

    DS
    DS


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    Post by DS Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:51 pm

    Toni Kroos wrote:why only close to world class, this guy could play in any team in the world, this guy is world class
    Being injury prone goes against him , a relative low CL experience as well , has he been involved in a title race?
    Have to prove it in a top club in a top league I guess.
    Calidad
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    Post by Calidad Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:21 pm

    VDV is world class. Definitely one of the best in the world in his position.
    chrissicross
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    Post by chrissicross Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:38 pm

    VAN-DER-VAART-ABSCHIED

    Kleiner Engel, eiskalt

    Von Mike Glindmeier

    Der HSV verliert seinen besten Spieler: Rafael van der Vaart wird den Club verlassen. Der "kleine Engel", wie ihn die Fans nennen, will in der Rückrunde trotzdem alles geben. Damit sichert er sich einen Platz im HSV-Museum – und dem Verein einen zweistelligen Millionenbetrag.

    Endlich ist es raus: Rafael van der Vaart wird seinen Vertrag beim Hamburger SV nicht verlängern (mehr...). Damit ist die Frage beantwortet, die die Hamburger während der kompletten Winterpause beschäftigt hat. "Mir ist das Nein sehr schwergefallen. Das HSV-Angebot war sehr gut, der Verein hat alles versucht, um mich längerfristig zu halten", sagte der niederländische Nationalspieler der "Bild"-Zeitung.

    Obwohl man diesen Satz von nahezu jedem Topstar hört, der einen Verein verlässt, um bei einem noch größeren Club noch mehr Geld zu verdienen, klingt er aus van der Vaarts Mund glaubwürdiger als bei vielen seiner Kollegen. Denn hinter dem "kleinen Engel" - wie van der Vaart in Anspielung auf den "blonden Engel" Bernd Schuster genannt wird - liegen turbulente Monate, in denen der 24-Jährige besonders eines gezeigt hat: Charakterstärke. Viele Fans sprachen ihm genau diese Eigenschaft ab, als er im Sommer 2007 öffentlich einen Wechsel zum FC Valencia forcierte.

    Tagelang provozierte van der Vaart damals seinen Rausschmiss, posierte sogar für eine spanische Zeitung im Valencia-Trikot. Einen Tag vor dem ersten Spiel der Uefa-Cup-Qualifikation zog er sich eine Rückenverletzung beim Hochheben seines Sohnes zu. Damals lag der Verdacht nahe, dass van der Vaart einen Einsatz im internationalen Wettbewerb für den HSV vermeiden wollte, da er bei einem Wechsel für seinen neuen Verein in europäischen Duellen gesperrt gewesen wäre.

    Die Anhänger tobten, in den Hamburger Boulevardzeitungen ließen sich traurige VdV-Fans im Grundschulalter mit herunterhängenden Mundwinkeln ablichten und forderten das Geld für ihr Trikot mit der Nummer 23 zurück. Alles sah so aus, als wäre der Abgang nur noch eine Frage des Geldes. Doch HSV-Boss Bernd Hoffmann und Sportchef Dietmar Beiersdorfer blieben hart und ließen den Spielmacher nicht aus seinem Vertrag. Ein ebenso risikoreicher wie genialer Schachzug.

    Ignoranz statt Pfiffe

    Van der Vaart kündigte an, sich trotz des geplatzten Wechsels in Hamburg voll reinzuhängen – und hielt Wort. Die Schlüsselszene ereignete sich beim ersten Heimspiel der Saison gegen Bayer Leverkusen. Beim Verkünden der Mannschaftsaufstellung blieben die erwarteten Pfiffe gegen den Wechselwilligen aus, die Fans straften van der Vaart dafür mit Ignoranz. Bis zur 64. Minute, als Schiedsrichter Herbert Fandel nach einem Handspiel auf Elfmeter für den HSV entschied: Der eiskalte Engel schnappte sich den Ball und verwandelte mit einem trockenen Linksschuss.

    Spätestens zu diesem Zeitpunkt hatten ihm die meisten HSV-Fans verziehen. Damit war der Weg für eine vielversprechende Saison frei. Der harmoniebedürftige van der Vaart hat in der Hinrunde in 14 Spielen drei Tore vorbereitet und neun Treffer erzielt. Damit führt der beste HSV-Mittelfeldspieler seit Thomas Doll die Torjägerliste gemeinsam mit Bayerns Luca Toni und Miroslav Klose sowie dem Bremer Diego an.

    Van der Vaart, der laut italienischen Zeitungsberichten auf dem Wunschzettel von Juventus Turin stehen soll, will in der Rückrunde an diese Leistungen anknüpfen: "Ich möchte für die tollen Fans eine Trophäe gewinnen und sie als Dank hierlassen." Ganz egal, ob der HSV einen Titel holt oder nicht: Im HSV-Museum hat er einen Platz in der Vitrine mit den Legenden wie Felix Magath, Kevin Keegan und Manfred Kaltz sicher. Boss Hoffmann darf sich zudem über eine Ablösesumme um die 20 Millionen Euro freuen, wenn er seinen Star bereits in diesem Sommer verkauft. Ein Jahr später würde er nur noch die vertraglich festgeschriebenen 1,5 Millionen bekommen.

    Zürichs Chikhaoui möglicher Nachfolger

    Auch wenn van der Vaart dem Verein einen neuen Transferrekord bescheren wird: Die Lücke, die er im Mittelfeld der Rothosen hinterlässt, wird nur schwer zu füllen sein. Aus den eigenen Reihen hat sich in den vergangenen beiden Jahren kein Spieler aufgedrängt. Piotr Trochowski sollte an diese Position herangeführt werden, bewies aber in den Spielen, in denen er van der Vaart vertrat, dass ihn diese Aufgabe hoffnungslos überfordert.

    Daher ist es umso wahrscheinlicher, dass Beiersdorfer einen großen Teil der van-der-Vaart-Ablöse sofort wieder investieren wird. Ein möglicher Kandidat ist Yassine Chikhaoui. Der 21-jährige Tunesier soll allerdings auch beim FC Bayern, in Bremen und in Leverkusen auf der Beobachtungsliste stehen. Die HSV-Verantwortlichen können sich schon bald ein Bild von dem Regisseur des FC Zürich machen. Im Februar treffen beide Teams zweimal im Uefa-Cup aufeinander.

    Doch eine Entscheidung für oder gegen Chikhaoui wird nicht nur von seiner Leistung in diesen beiden Begegnungen abhängen. Entscheidend ist auch, welche taktischen Vorstellungen der Nachfolger des im Sommer ausscheidenden Huub Stevens hat. Der muss allerdings erst noch gefunden werden. Auf Hoffmann und Beiersdorfer kommt in den kommenden Wochen auf jeden Fall jede Menge Arbeit zu.
    http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/0,1518,526833,00.html
    chrissicross
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    Post by chrissicross Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:04 pm

    @Dutchies

    Sportbild is mentioning Ibrahim Affelay from PSV Eindhoven as a potential successor for VDV in Hamburg. What do you think?
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:06 pm

    christmasicross wrote:@Dutchies

    Sportbild is mentioning Ibrahim Affelay from PSV Eindhoven as a potential successor for VDV in Hamburg. What do you think?
    Don't think HSV will want to pay for him what PSV will ask. Don't think Afellay will fancy that move either.

    so what you expect from Bild: a load of Cr@p
    DD
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    Post by DD Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:07 pm

    christmasicross wrote:@Dutchies

    Sportbild is mentioning Ibrahim Affelay from PSV Eindhoven as a potential successor for VDV in Hamburg. What do you think?
    Too young, too lightweigth. Equally injury-prone.
    The lad has a huge future but its way too early to burden him with that pressure of 'replacing' VDV. He's only 19 or so.
    Bad idea - so much could potentially go wrong.
    chrissicross
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    Post by chrissicross Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:43 pm

    DD wrote:
    christmasicross wrote:@Dutchies

    Sportbild is mentioning Ibrahim Affelay from PSV Eindhoven as a potential successor for VDV in Hamburg. What do you think?
    Too young, too lightweigth. Equally injury-prone.
    The lad has a huge future but its way too early to burden him with that pressure of 'replacing' VDV. He's only 19 or so.
    Bad idea - so much could potentially go wrong.
    Oh, Sportbild claims he´s 21 and Arsenal would follow him closely. Anyway, other potential successors according to Sportbild are Yassine Chikhaoui, Andres D'Alessandro, Tamas Hajnal, Jérémy Menez, Luca Modric and Samir Nasri. Not sure if there´s any truth in it or if it´s all nothing but speculation...

    http://sportbild.de/slideshow/fussball/20080106/11143/photo_1.htm
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:49 pm

    He's 21. Like DD says huge potential, but also long running contract, PSV will not let him go & like I said move wouldn't make sense for him either.

    The other names are just too mention some talents (without giving any thought if they're realistic possibilities). Modric is wanted by loads of Club's (some bigger than HSV) & Dinamo's Zagreb's chairman wants 50 M (!) for him.
    Tarun
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    Post by Tarun Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:31 pm

    Well...if the VDV news is true, then it's a great move by Juventus to strengthen the squad for next season. He would be an ideal replacement for Nedved
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:29 pm

    VDV fits Juve perfectly really.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:32 pm

    Toni Kroos wrote:why only close to world class, this guy could play in any team in the world, this guy is world class

    lol!
    Since 1888
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    Post by Since 1888 Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:03 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Toni Kroos wrote:why only close to world class, this guy could play in any team in the world, this guy is world class

    lol!

    Why do you try to make yourself look like a stupid person? In his few first years he outshone Ballack and was voted player of the year in the Bundesliga. He is better than Sneijder who plays for one of the best teams in Europe.
    You could doubt he is world class, but he is not far off and you are making yourself look really silly to ridicule someone who says he is world class.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:03 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:
    Toni Kroos wrote:why only close to world class, this guy could play in any team in the world, this guy is world class

    lol!

    Why do you try to make yourself look like a stupid person? In his few first years he outshone Ballack and was voted player of the year in the Bundesliga. He is better than Sneijder who plays for one of the best teams in Europe.
    You could doubt he is world class, but he is not far off and you are making yourself look really silly to ridicule someone who says he is world class.

    Talk about Dutch hype. Rolling Eyes

    He's saying that he's the best attacking midfielder in the world. I can think of five immediately better ones than him.

    God knows why you compared him to Sneijder, unless you think that only Dutch players can be classed 'world class'
    Deluded F*ck™
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    Post by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:09 pm

    Great signing by Juve if true... Grr
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    Post by Since 1888 Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:11 pm

    Deisler said he could play for any club in the world. Which I think isn't such a strange thing to see since Sneijder plays for one of the best clubs and vdVaart is better.

    He didn't say he was THE best, he certainly is one of them though.

    vdVaart has his minus, being injury prone but on form I can't think of many playmakers who are better.

    Maybe you should watch the Bundesliga a bit more, you might not laugh again when one of the best players of that league is called world class. It really isn't such a strange statement to make.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:22 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:Deisler said he could play for any club in the world. Which I think isn't such a strange thing to see since Sneijder plays for one of the best clubs and vdVaart is better.

    Craig Gordon could get into Barca and Arsenal's team using the same logic.

    Does that make him world class? No...

    He didn't say he was THE best, he certainly is one of them though.

    Well, to play in any team in the world you certainly have to be up there. World Class implies you're one of the best 20 or so best footballers on the planet. Is he really THAT good? Top 50 maybe, but not top 20 for me. He's therefore not world class in my book, and wouldn't make every team.

    vdVaart has his minus, being injury prone but on form I can't think of many playmakers who are better.

    Let me help you: Lucho Gonzales, Scholes, Cesc, Juan Roman Riquelme, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Messi, Totti, Iniesta.

    Maybe you should watch the Bundesliga a bit more, you might not laugh again when one of the best players of that league is called world class. It really isn't such a strange statement to make.

    Is Celtic's Nakamura also world class then?

    Or how about Afonso Alves or Mathusalem?

    Just because a player is one of the best in a certain league, doesn't make them world class.
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:26 pm

    I will go as far to say VDV is bordering on World Class, It's a shame injury has stop him at times he's good enough to get into the AC Milan, Real Madrid, FC Barcelona etc teams no doubt.
    Since 1888
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    Post by Since 1888 Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:39 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Since 1888 wrote:Deisler said he could play for any club in the world. Which I think isn't such a strange thing to see since Sneijder plays for one of the best clubs and vdVaart is better.

    Craig Gordon could get into Barca and Arsenal's team using the same logic.

    Does that make him world class? No...

    He didn't say he was THE best, he certainly is one of them though.

    Well, to play in any team in the world you certainly have to be up there. World Class implies you're one of the best 20 or so best footballers on the planet. Is he really THAT good? Top 50 maybe, but not top 20 for me. He's therefore not world class in my book, and wouldn't make every team.

    vdVaart has his minus, being injury prone but on form I can't think of many playmakers who are better.

    Let me help you: Lucho Gonzales, Scholes, Cesc, Juan Roman Riquelme, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Messi, Totti, Iniesta.

    Maybe you should watch the Bundesliga a bit more, you might not laugh again when one of the best players of that league is called world class. It really isn't such a strange statement to make.

    Is Celtic's Nakamura also world class then?

    Or how about Afonso Alves or Mathusalem?

    Just because a player is one of the best in a certain league, doesn't make them world class.

    Goalkeepers are a let less widely spread as attacking playmakers. I don't think anyone doubts the very good playmakers we have in football. So comparing these 2 positions really doesn't make much sense. I agree the argument itself might not be the best though.

    Top 20 maybe, Top 50 certainly.

    How exactly is a Lucho Gonzalez better, how is exactly Scholes better, or how is Messi a playmaker. Just name dropping without any substance.

    It is just even more baffling you are comparing the Bundesliga with the SPL or Ukrain league. You might take off your anti-German glasses and recognize Bundesliga is in the top 5 leagues in the world. A team with Ribery, Toni, Klose and other very good players which wouldn't make a bad figure in any other league is only tied first.
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    Post by Parks lives Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:42 pm

    Maybe going by the Cocu thread you don't rate Scholes as highly as some. However he's consistently one of the best midfielders in the Premier League, well respected through out Europe by most of the top pro's and was voted the 3rd best player in the Premier League last season, only behind Drogba and Ronaldo.

    Yes he's getting on abit but he's still a top class player.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:45 pm

    Since 1888 wrote:[Goalkeepers are a let less widely spread as attacking playmakers. I don't think anyone doubts the very good playmakers we have in football. So comparing these 2 positions really doesn't make much sense. I agree the argument itself might not be the best though.

    Top 20 maybe, Top 50 certainly.

    Sure.

    First point you are correct, but in essence I wasn't trying to prove the same as youurself, moreover prove that the arguement was flawed.

    The second point is your own personal opinion. He wouldn't make my top 20.

    How exactly is a Lucho Gonzalez better, how is exactly Scholes better, or how is Messi a playmaker. Just name dropping without any substance.

    Well it depends. If you're talking about pure passing range, guile and creativity, then Lucho is the best of all four.

    If you're referring to the composites that make up an attacking midfielder, then Messi is clearly the best.

    Scholes is a better player than VDV - he's proven that both internationally, domestically and in the Champions League on numerous occassions.

    It is just even more baffling you are comparing the Bundesliga with the SPL or Ukrain league. You might take off your anti-German glasses and recognize Bundesliga is in the top 5 leagues in the world. A team with Ribery, Toni, Klose and other very good players which wouldn't make a bad figure in any other league is only tied first.

    Hmmm....
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    Post by Since 1888 Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:46 pm

    Parks lives wrote:Maybe going by the Cocu thread you don't rate Scholes as highly as some. However he's consistently one of the best midfielders in the Premier League, well respected through out Europe by most of the top pro's and was voted the 3rd best player in the Premier League last season, only behind Drogba and Ronaldo.

    Yes he's getting on abit but he's still a top class player.

    It's not about Scholes, it's just about the name dropping without any substance. I could have said Ronaldinho who has been nowhere near as good as vdVaart lately. Or Riquelme who we only see sometimes during the Copa and have no idea how he is actually doing.

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