Italy - Portugal thread

2 quick goals for either side.
portugal score through quaresma and right after natale gets a goal. portugals defence is too easy to breach allthough they have made a number of subs.

supermadrid wrote:

BoBo Vieri wrote:Palladino almost scored an amazing goal. Very impressed with him. I take back what i said earlier.

And Cassano would solve our creative problems in the final third.

im not sure allthough i would love to see him back. i think italy should use aquilani instead of ambrosini and find another right back then oddo. maybe put zambrotta there and use pasqual on the left.oddo seems to have lost his crossing skill which i thought was one of his strenghts. that team at least would be able to turn a game if they go behind. if portugal were the type of team that wanted to defend and they had marked pirlo it would have been a different game. that is why italy need someone else that can create like aquilani.

I don't really like Zambrotta at RB so i'd keep Oddo there. He hasnt been impressive today or this season but hopefully he pick it up. Pasqual hasnt been as impressive this season. Grosso and Tonetto are overrated and poor defensively. I thought Zauri was worth a call but he is injured now . I see Aquilani as a backup for Pirlo. I wouldnt take out one of our DMs because its too risky to play with only one. I think Cassano is still ideal.

Yeah i know but i thought zambrotta did fine in WC and for italy i think he could do it. oddo for me just seems slow and if he cant cross he cant do much. which is important in italys system. i think italy should gamble on using aquilani and pirlo together. then de rossi can the work or gattuso. i also want cassano in for one of the supporting strikers role.

thought Italy had a good game was a bit more dangerous in the first half but in the second imo was by far the better team and it seemed like Italy were playing within themselves.

Yeah. And Pirlo MOTM IMO. He was magnificient.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:thought Italy had a good game was a bit more dangerous in the first half but in the second imo was by far the better team and it seemed like Italy were playing within themselves.

bluenine wrote:Yeah. And Pirlo MOTM IMO. He was magnificient.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:thought Italy had a good game was a bit more dangerous in the first half but in the second imo was by far the better team and it seemed like Italy were playing within themselves.

Yep he played fantastic today. Strong performance from our defence in general. Was good to see Amelia looking solid and performing some good saves in the first half. Grosso was at fault for Quaresmas goal, i think there are better options than him on the left. Oddo had Ronaldo in his pocket again !

De Rossi and Ambrosini were a bit dissapointing with some wayward passes.

Forwards were impressive aswell. Palladino really surprised me. I wonder who will get the right sided forward spot? Quag? Palladino? or possibly Cassano?

BoBo Vieri wrote:

bluenine wrote:Yeah. And Pirlo MOTM IMO. He was magnificient.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:thought Italy had a good game was a bit more dangerous in the first half but in the second imo was by far the better team and it seemed like Italy were playing within themselves.

Oddo had Ronaldo in his pocket again !

I’m guessing Ronaldo had a poor game saw he was the Captian (huge responsibility) did Nani play?

Just got in to see we've won...what a great result for us .

I agree with BoBo regarding Grosso...I used to be fan, but not anymore from what I've seen lately. I like Tonetto though, would much prefer him, and I think he's a good option.

Seems like Cassano would've been a great addition to todays squad...

Nummer 14 wrote:

BoBo Vieri wrote:

bluenine wrote:Yeah. And Pirlo MOTM IMO. He was magnificient.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:thought Italy had a good game was a bit more dangerous in the first half but in the second imo was by far the better team and it seemed like Italy were playing within themselves.

Oddo had Ronaldo in his pocket again !

I’m guessing Ronaldo had a poor game saw he was the Captian (huge responsibility) did Nani play?

He got very frustrated especially when Quaremsa played him a poor pass in a 2 vs 1 situation. He was still probably Portugals best player though and had a good freekick early in the game.

Nani came on and did well. He went on a good run but only Oddo and Cannavaro double teaming him stopped his progress. Also setup Quaresma's goal.

I think the right side forward would be between Quagliarella, Camoranesi, Semioli and Palladino. Out of these, I think Quag has as good as booked his Euro ticket, and should start most games...

Iaquinta is a back up option on the right, and a back up for Toni.

Cassano IMO is fighting for the Perrotta spot.... coz before Perrotta, that spot used to be Totti's... its a AM role, which can easily be modified into a fantasista role, which is basically what Cassano plays as.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

bluenine wrote:Yeah. And Pirlo MOTM IMO. He was magnificient.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:thought Italy had a good game was a bit more dangerous in the first half but in the second imo was by far the better team and it seemed like Italy were playing within themselves.

Yep he played fantastic today. Strong performance from our defence in general. Was good to see Amelia looking solid and performing some good saves in the first half. Grosso was at fault for Quaresmas goal, i think there are better options than him on the left. Oddo had Ronaldo in his pocket again !

De Rossi and Ambrosini were a bit dissapointing with some wayward passes.

Forwards were impressive aswell. Palladino really surprised me. I wonder who will get the right sided forward spot? Quag? Palladino? or possibly Cassano?

Firstly, Pirlo was a class above everyone on the pitch. No one even came close.

C. Ronaldo was kept completely out of the game. Great job marking him.

Palladino did very well--I was wrong about the selection too.

A great win for Italy. The Azzurri played superbly and intelligently. In the second half they carved open Portugal at will.

Forza Azzurri!

Can't say that I'm entirely surprised although I do think that 3-1 was a bit harsh on a Portugal side that dominated possession and created more chances. Still, it's about scoring from the chances you have and Italy are masters at that.

We failed in all areas, we made some horrible defensive mistakes (Italy capitalised on practically every one), we were naive in midfield and profligate in attack. Too many individual actions and not enough team play, we also need to be more cynical when playing good quality counter-attacking sides like Italy, we were very amateurish at times.

Contrary to opinions on this Forum I think Ronaldo was OK, not brilliant but could easily have scored from a couple of free kicks were it not for Amelia (what kind of a name is that for a man?) who was very effective. Keep in mind he played the second half as a second striker and didn't get particularily good service from the wingers.

Congratulations to Italy, particularily to Pirlo who was absolutely superb.

Rubbish. Both Ronaldo and Quaresma spent more time looking at enlarging their football penis, than actually playing for the team
If you don't pass a sodding ball, you can not create neither space or chances
That chance of 3 attackers to a Italian defender was the epitomize of having a very little concentration.What's the point of having 2, yes 2, strikers around 6feet tall, if they do not have the service. Oh no, has to be one more circus act from the rest of the entertainers. I'm getting a bit tired of the clows.
FFS, do that when we are winning comfortably. I counted 3 good crosses over 93 minutes of football. 3. Ridiculous. Passed the ball. When we did that we got Italy on the back foot. When we went "exhibition" route, we got stuffed

Ricardo,B Alves, Jesus, from bad to worst

I actually missed N Gomes yesterday, could you believe it?
Hopefully Simao,J Andrade, N Gomes,Moutinho,M Fernandes, Tiago, M Veloso and Miguel are all in the final 23 to the Euro

And FFS, appoint someone with 2 brain cells as captain. Ronaldo may have the football status, but not the maturity yet. We need an experience guy to put some order in that team
Ever since R Costa and Figo left there is no one

lampiao007 wrote:Rubbish. Both Ronaldo and Quaresma spent more time looking at enlarging their football penis, than actually playing for the team
If you don't pass a sodding ball, you can not create neither space or chances
That chance of 3 attackers to a Italian defender was the epitomize of having a very little concentration.What's the point of having 2, yes 2, strikers around 6feet tall, if they do not have the service. Oh no, has to be one more circus act from the rest of the entertainers. I'm getting a bit tired of the clows.
FFS, do that when we are winning comfortably. I counted 3 good crosses over 93 minutes of football. 3. Ridiculous. Passed the ball. When we did that we got Italy on the back foot. When we went "exhibition" route, we got stuffed

Ricardo,B Alves, Jesus, from bad to worst

I actually missed N Gomes yesterday, could you believe it?
Hopefully Simao,J Andrade, N Gomes,Moutinho,M Fernandes, Tiago, M Veloso and Miguel are all in the final 23 to the Euro

And FFS, appoint someone with 2 brain cells as captain. Ronaldo may have the football status, but not the maturity yet. We need an experience guy to put some order in that team
Ever since R Costa and Figo left there is no one

Didn't see the game, but it seems like a similar story to Portugal's performances in the qualifers. Embarrassing wealth of talent, need to get more out of them.

Also agree that the players you'd like to be in the Euro Finals, are ones that would make a difference, especially Andrade.

I maintain that Ronaldo didn't play badly considering that we don't play to his strengths.

If you're expecting him to get to the byline and cross you can sit down and wait because you'll get 'varizes' otherwise.

Ronaldo's strength is his pace and final pass. If he's given the ball to counter-attack and has one or two players who follow his run than he's fantastic. However we don't play like that, we rely in sustained attacks, short passing close to goal and cutbacks rather than crosses.

Just watch him at United, most of what he does is either start and finish the counter-attack, cut inside and shoot from just outside the box and head in a cross. We hardly counter-attack, cut inside and shoot is less effective against world class quality like Italy and none of our wingers could provide a decent cross if their life depended on it.

Tuga wrote:I maintain that Ronaldo didn't play badly considering that we don't play to his strengths.

If you're expecting him to get to the byline and cross you can sit down and wait because you'll get 'varizes' otherwise.

He used to do it before, what, now that he is a "big star" he cant?

Ronaldo's strength is his pace and final pass. If he's given the ball to counter-attack and has one or two players who follow his run than he's fantastic. However we don't play like that, we rely in sustained attacks, short passing close to goal and cutbacks rather than crosses.

Again, he did not do anything of the kind yesterday. Lost himself in useful dribbles and doing the hard thing instead of keeping it easy

Just watch him at United, most of what he does is either start and finish the counter-attack, cut inside and shoot from just outside the box and head in a cross. We hardly counter-attack, cut inside and shoot is less effective against world class quality like Italy and none of our wingers could provide a decent cross if their life depended on it.

Portugal is not United now is it? He is not playing up front or behind the striker. We was playing on the wing, with the chance of going to the middle if he could. Failing that, he should, pass the sodding ball. He does not, and will not take 3 Italian players on is own. That's just silly. Look at our goal. Simplicity pays off most of the time

He , and Quaresma, did nothing of the kind. Did not made a useful attack situation, and did not defend. Again, circus and clowns, are all well and dandy. But that is after the hard work is done.

If Portugal wants to challenge for finals and titles, they have to put on their thick skulls, that it will be a team game, not a vanity fair

Same goes for Deco. For the live of me, I can not understand how he seems to have a permanent place, in spite of being in a really Cr@p form of lately

It only highlights the same crappy performances we did all over the qualifiers.

Bring on the young ones

Don't even get me started on our defence (or calender, although I'm doing the calender a disfavor)

sorry but portugal did not have the best chances they had more possession because Italy let them have the ball. Pirlo had a perfectly good goal disallowed, Italy hit the post and di natale had two good chances saved well by the keeper. also i watch all of Italys games and imo they were holding back some.

I dont get Portugal. in the 2004 euros they played some good football(as they grew) and whenever i saw their games in qualifications for 2006 i thought they were growing aswell but in the WC they bad and this has stuck with them and i dont understand it. has scolari just run out of ideas?

imo ronaldo was bad and so was quaresma but he seemed maybe a bit more motivated and more of his tricks worked allthough they didnt result in anything. i also dont understand why ronaldo has gotten the captains armband. he is still young and i wouldnt say he is a leader.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=577464
blue9 what do u think of this article mainly the reason Italy are so strong according to the author about being able to switch formations during the game

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=577249&PageIndex=3

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:sorry but portugal did not have the best chances they had more possession because Italy let them have the ball. Pirlo had a perfectly good goal disallowed, Italy hit the post and di natale had two good chances saved well by the keeper. also i watch all of Italys games and imo they were holding back some.

I am afraid it will be the same scenario against us dutchies... We have the ball... they score the goals...

We definitely have to play a strong physical striker like Vennegoor or Koevermans against Italy to break the defence wall!

I had seen that article - a bit of exaggeration there.

Yeah, Donadoni plays a 4-3-3 which becomes a 4-5-1 when chasing the ball. But its hardly a new thing in Italy... this season for example, Udinese do it. Capello's Juve were the first team which did this, with DP, Treze & Mutu/Camoranesi. Ranieri's juve do this quite often too, specially in the second half with DP, Treze & Palladino/Iaquinta. Roma play a variation of this as well. In Italy, this is commonly known the 4-2-3-1 formation...

So I wouldn't give Donadoni the credit for originality like Carlo has in the article.

But one thing Carlo has got spot on... Donadoni has made every player so familiar with the strategy and their role, and defined the roles so well, that Italy seem to be working like a well oiled machine now. 6 of teh starters did not play today, but that did not impact the performance. Donadoni has carried on from Lippi's work, and the teamwork shows... that is the main reason why Italy are so strong, not just the switching for formations... everyone understands their role, and the way they are supposed to play - teamwork! Italy will be tough to beat this summer.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=577464
blue9 what do u think of this article mainly the reason Italy are so strong according to the author about being able to switch formations during the game

bluenine wrote:I had seen that article - a bit of exaggeration there.

Yeah, Donadoni plays a 4-3-3 which becomes a 4-5-1 when chasing the ball. But its hardly a new thing in Italy... this season for example, Udinese do it. Capello's Juve were the first team which did this, with DP, Treze & Mutu/Camoranesi. Ranieri's juve do this quite often too, specially in the second half with DP, Treze & Palladino/Iaquinta. Roma play a variation of this as well. In Italy, this is commonly known the 4-2-3-1 formation...

So I wouldn't give Donadoni the credit for originality like Carlo has in the article.

But one thing Carlo has got spot on... Donadoni has made every player so familiar with the strategy and their role, and defined the roles so well, that Italy seem to be working like a well oiled machine now. 6 of teh starters did not play today, but that did not impact the performance. Donadoni has carried on from Lippi's work, and the teamwork shows... that is the main reason why Italy are so strong, not just the switching for formations... everyone understands their role, and the way they are supposed to play - teamwork! Italy will be tough to beat this summer.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=577464
blue9 what do u think of this article mainly the reason Italy are so strong according to the author about being able to switch formations during the game

They are also unflappable. They don't play with Trapattoni induced panic.

I haven't read the article, but I would say that Italy's biggest strength is their mental fortitude. They know how to suffer for a result. I love talking tactics, but it is the Azzurri attitude that is especially relevant.

FFS, Trapattoni would set out a team based on Ecuador's strengths ("they have quick wide-men", he said during WC2002).

The only area I worry about is defence.

Finally, Italy, contrary to convenient stereotypes, are playing very attractive football--and are very effective. Lippi said that his Italy "should leave its imprint on a game". Donadoni is starting to do that.

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:sorry but portugal did not have the best chances they had more possession because Italy let them have the ball When we played a passing team game, well supported in the midfield, was not Italy letting us have the ball. Unfortunately that only lasted 20 minutes . Pirlo had a perfectly good goal disallowed Handball before shooting, Italy hit the post Good save by Ricardo, went into the upright and di natale had two good chances saved well by the keeper 2 good freekicks from Ronaldo also well saved by Amelia plus an ludicrous 3 to 1 that was criminally wasted. also i watch all of Italys games and imo they were holding back some.Nothing really new in there is it? They are masters at doing so.And when you have Pirlo making the ball move, it's much easier

Bottom line is that Portugal played like a rag tag not a team. Hopefully the players that I mention previously will get a call out prior to the last 23 list

lampiao007 wrote:

ArthurFriedenreich wrote:sorry but portugal did not have the best chances they had more possession because Italy let them have the ball When we played a passing team game, well supported in the midfield, was not Italy letting us have the ball. Unfortunately that only lasted 20 minutes . Pirlo had a perfectly good goal disallowed Handball before shooting, Italy hit the post Good save by Ricardo, went into the upright and di natale had two good chances saved well by the keeper 2 good freekicks from Ronaldo also well saved by Amelia plus an ludicrous 3 to 1 that was criminally wasted. also i watch all of Italys games and imo they were holding back some.Nothing really new in there is it? They are masters at doing so.And when you have Pirlo making the ball move, it's much easier

Bottom line is that Portugal played like a rag tag not a team. Hopefully the players that I mention previously will get a call out prior to the last 23 list

But i dont think the problem is in the players but how scolari uses them. it seems he doesnt know how to motivate them anymore and there isnt the movement needed.

lampiao007 wrote:And when you have Pirlo making the ball move, it's much easier

Interesting quote there, Lampiao. Pirlo reminds me in part of Paulo Sousa (deep role, awesome long pass) and in part of Rui Costa (vision, dribbling, etc)... This season, he has taken over from Kaka as the main man for Milan - the shift is clear for everyone to see, let the glitter of the WPOTY, etc fade away a bit, and the rest of Europe will also recognise this shift.

When I was sitting in San Siro in Dec watching the derby, I suddenly felt strange looking at Pirlo in a Milan jersey... now, he has been there long enuf now for me to feel that way... it was like deja vu, I was watching the confident stride of the Pirlo 7-8 years ago, when he was the king of the U21s, and walked with a combination of swagger & joy that represented. Somehow the Pirlo who scored against Inter that day looked exactly the same, except that this was senior football now, and that he was wearing the wrong jersey!

Pirlo is coming into his own! He is Italy's and Milan's new MVP.

bluenine wrote:

lampiao007 wrote:And when you have Pirlo making the ball move, it's much easier

Interesting quote there, Lampiao. Pirlo reminds me in part of Paulo Sousa (deep role, awesome long pass) and in part of Rui Costa (vision, dribbling, etc)... This season, he has taken over from Kaka as the main man for Milan - the shift is clear for everyone to see, let the glitter of the WPOTY, etc fade away a bit.

Pirlo is coming into his own! He is Italy's and Milan's new MVP.

Actually Pirlo has been more important than Kaka for a while.

Kaka is replaceable.

Pirlo is not. We have to change our shape dramatically when he is injured.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

bluenine wrote:

lampiao007 wrote:And when you have Pirlo making the ball move, it's much easier

Interesting quote there, Lampiao. Pirlo reminds me in part of Paulo Sousa (deep role, awesome long pass) and in part of Rui Costa (vision, dribbling, etc)... This season, he has taken over from Kaka as the main man for Milan - the shift is clear for everyone to see, let the glitter of the WPOTY, etc fade away a bit.

Pirlo is coming into his own! He is Italy's and Milan's new MVP.

Actually Pirlo has been more important than Kaka for a while.

Kaka is replaceable.

Pirlo is not. We have to change our shape dramatically when he is injured.

I know, Pirlo was more difficult to replace even before, but he wasn't the best... Last season Kaka was your best player in the CL... this season, Pirlo has been better in all competitions than Kaka or Seedorf. He has started to look like the better player.

For Italy as well. 3 years ago, Pirlo was not the best player, not better than Totti for example. Now, Pirlo is THE player for the Azzurri.

I didn't think Pirlo was that great at the World Cup though...I thought we had at least 6/7 who were better over the whole tournament.

Matthew Upson wrote:I didn't think Pirlo was that great at the World Cup though...I thought we had at least 6/7 who were better over the whole tournament.