Vicente del Bosque - the return

Torrente wrote:

Jaime wrote:

golsud wrote:

Jaime wrote:

golsud wrote:He isn't a great manager, he was lucky enough to have a good squad which anyone could've got results with. The best man for the job is Rafa Benitez.

golsud=Florentino

It's true though. What did he do after Madriz? Failed in Turkey and hasn't had a job since.

The adventure in Turkey was doomed to fail from the beginning. Besiktas was in turmoil, Del Bosque couldn't speak the language, etc.

What people forget is that Del Bosque was winning titles before the "galactico" era even began. People say he was not a tactical genius but the man won titles playing 5-3-2, 4-4-2, and 4-2-3-1; he was the one responsible from converting Helguera from a good defensive midfielder to an international calibre (for a short time, I know) defender. How many would have thought to turn Guti into a '9' in the absence of Morientes and then see him go on to score 14 goals as centre forward. I don't think many managers would have had the nerve to ask Zidane to play on the left wing either.

I'm not saying he is Mourinho but he is very underrated in terms of his 'libreta' and I can give you a lot of other examples of subtle things he did in certain matches that were really tactically genius.

You're absolutely right. It disgusts me that so many Real Madrid fans think the same as Golsud. A cule I wouldn't care about, but it's unbelievable that so many Madrid fans don't give Del Bosque the credit he deserves.

He won the CL twice, outsmarting the likes of Hittsfield, Ferguson, and Cuper. Just look at the Real Madrid squad of 2000. You can't say it was superior to Bayern's or Man United's, yet we knocked both of them out. Then we completely raped Valencia in the final.

With Del Bosque the norm was to at least make the semi-finals of the CL every time, and we won it twice as well as the league.

I think that partly why Florentino fired him was because Del Bosque didn't deliver the CL and the league in the same year, which was something Perez was obsessed about. Unfortunately Perez's lack of football knowledge meant that he didn't realize how hard an achievement that is, and that not accomplishing this feat should not be considered a failure. For all we know, if Del Bosque had been given a few more years he would have pulled it off. It took Ferguson over 10 years to accomplish it, and in almost 20 years of coaching United he still hasn't achieved as much as Del Bosque did in 4 years with us.

I also think that Del Bosque had his limitations, but he was hardly a tactically clueless manager who got lucky due to the squad he had. In the end, Del Bosque was a legendary coach who got us to play the best football we've seen for several decades.

And Del Bosque was also one of the few coaches who had the balls to play all out attack in the CL. That's something that even the likes of Rijkaard and Ferguson (who are generally viewed as great offensive coaches) haven't had the balls to do.

Torrente wrote:

Jaime wrote:

golsud wrote:

Jaime wrote:

golsud wrote:He isn't a great manager, he was lucky enough to have a good squad which anyone could've got results with. The best man for the job is Rafa Benitez.

golsud=Florentino

It's true though. What did he do after Madriz? Failed in Turkey and hasn't had a job since.

The adventure in Turkey was doomed to fail from the beginning. Besiktas was in turmoil, Del Bosque couldn't speak the language, etc.

What people forget is that Del Bosque was winning titles before the "galactico" era even began. People say he was not a tactical genius but the man won titles playing 5-3-2, 4-4-2, and 4-2-3-1; he was the one responsible from converting Helguera from a good defensive midfielder to an international calibre (for a short time, I know) defender. How many would have thought to turn Guti into a '9' in the absence of Morientes and then see him go on to score 14 goals as centre forward. I don't think many managers would have had the nerve to ask Zidane to play on the left wing either.

I'm not saying he is Mourinho but he is very underrated in terms of his 'libreta' and I can give you a lot of other examples of subtle things he did in certain matches that were really tactically genius.

You're absolutely right. It disgusts me that so many Real Madrid fans think the same as Golsud. A cule I wouldn't care about, but it's unbelievable that so many Madrid fans don't give Del Bosque the credit he deserves.

He won the CL twice, outsmarting the likes of Hittsfield, Ferguson, and Cuper. Just look at the Real Madrid squad of 2000. You can't say it was superior to Bayern's or Man United's, yet we knocked both of them out. Then we completely raped Valencia in the final.

With Del Bosque the norm was to at least make the semi-finals of the CL every time, and we won it twice as well as the league.

I think that partly why Florentino fired him was because Del Bosque didn't deliver the CL and the league in the same year, which was something Perez was obsessed about. Unfortunately Perez's lack of football knowledge meant that he didn't realize how hard an achievement that is, and that not accomplishing this feat should not be considered a failure. For all we know, if Del Bosque had been given a few more years he would have pulled it off. It took Ferguson over 10 years to accomplish it, and in almost 20 years of coaching United he still hasn't achieved as much as Del Bosque did in 4 years with us.

I also think that Del Bosque had his limitations, but he was hardly a tactically clueless manager who got lucky due to the squad he had. In the end, Del Bosque was a legendary coach who got us to play the best football we've seen for several decades.

And Del Bosque was also one of the few coaches who had the balls to play all out attack in the CL. That's something that even the likes of Rijkaard and Ferguson (who are generally viewed as great offensive coaches) haven't had the balls to do.

Jaime wrote:We'll have to see his first convocatoria but I don't think there is any reason to believe he will bring back Raul. Or bring in Guti. Beyond that, we don't have any Spanish players anyhow aside from Casillas and Ramos who are already in the team.

Calidad wrote:I'm not sure it'd be worth it to recall Raul, at least not as a starter. He's been a fine servant to the national side, but he's 30+ now, which isn't that old, but it's hardly as if Spain are struggling for strikers. He should be a squad player at best. I'm not sure he deserves a place over Guiza either

CB is possibly the only worry. Will any of the Bilbao players turn out for Spain? They have some top talent too, and could certainly help in the CB department

Jaime wrote:

Calidad wrote:I'm not sure it'd be worth it to recall Raul, at least not as a starter. He's been a fine servant to the national side, but he's 30+ now, which isn't that old, but it's hardly as if Spain are struggling for strikers. He should be a squad player at best. I'm not sure he deserves a place over Guiza either

This is the problem. Raul's pride doesn't allow him to be "just" a squad player. It's all or nothing with him which is why after the last WC Aragones basically had no choice but to stop calling him. Villa, Torres, and Guiza all justified their selection for Euro '08. Now, could Spain have won with Raul in the team? Of course the likes of golsud and Frank will say no but there is really no way of knowing. But going forward, Villa and Torres are in their prime. It will be interesting to see how Guiza fairs in Turkey and if that affects his selection at all. Plus if Bojan continues his upward progression there will probably not be a place for a 33 year old at the next WC (barring injuries or some ridiculous run of form).

CB is possibly the only worry. Will any of the Bilbao players turn out for Spain? They have some top talent too, and could certainly help in the CB department

Albiol has a great future. I think players like Jarque and Amorebieta could develop into very good central defenders for Spain.

golsud wrote:RAUL SELECCION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!