Argentina v Brazil

Owen Thomas wrote:Besides, I think this forum is generally very respectful of foreign players and their skill. This entire forum (including English part) creams itself over Ronnie/Kaka..etc

Ronnie yes, Kaká less so. Shame really... given that he's the better of the 2.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ricardo Oliveira will be Brazil's first choice striker within a years time.

Calidad wrote:@ Tweedlum

Rooney & Messi are both big talents, but I got the impression you don't think Messi deserves the acclaim he gets, but Rooney does? I was always more annoyed at people (N18WING and others) who slate Robinho. It's people like him, that make me so many want to watch football.

.

Its actually the exact opposite on this forum.

The English posters do appreciate and give credit to foreign players, however alot of the foreign posters will not accept at all that any English players are at the same level. So when the tables are turned they all bitch and moan about how amazing Messi is and how wrong we are.

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Pretty much like the whole "Rooney > messi" comment was in the first place. It's not like your comment of "then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is." was much better either. Was it?

More childish then pointless, but we have come to expect it really.

Obispo wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

How many goals and assists did Messig get against the 'big boys' in the league and the CL then?

"stats don't tell the whole story".

thank you.


i don't think dunga will be calling up Ronaldo again.

Because since the WC, stories of want was really happening in side the barzil camp have come to the fore.

i turns out that the old guard. (Carlos,Cafu,Ronaldo) where only considered about their personal records more so that the team effort.

i turns out that they were all talking about want records they will be breaking and Ronaldo about his sexual exploits. While in training mead it perfectly clear that they will not be going above and beyond and excepted the new guard to pick up the slack.

So after a month after the world cup, Ronaldo and the likes have become the bad guys and Dinho and kaka is the good guys for be selfless and sacrificing the own games for the team effort so i don't think Dunga will be calling up Ronaldo unless he finds back is Barca form are Fred and the likes fall of form.

How true it is I don’t know but it is coming from some pretty reliable sources

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Pretty much like the whole "Rooney > messi" comment was in the first place. It's not like your comment of "then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is." was much better either. Was it?

Much like his "then there'd be a thousand threads about how good the goals was" eh?

borocooper wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Pretty much like the whole "Rooney > messi" comment was in the first place. It's not like your comment of "then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is." was much better either. Was it?

Much like his "then there'd be a thousand threads about how good the goals was" eh?

Which came in response to a similar comment from Tweedle, who actually started up this whole pointless debate.

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Pretty much like the whole "Rooney > messi" comment was in the first place. It's not like your comment of "then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is." was much better either. Was it?

Much like his "then there'd be a thousand threads about how good the goals was" eh?

Which came in response to a similar comment from Tweedle, who actually started up this whole pointless debate.

So what?

Why involve yourself and start with me?

borocooper wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Pretty much like the whole "Rooney > messi" comment was in the first place. It's not like your comment of "then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is." was much better either. Was it?

Much like his "then there'd be a thousand threads about how good the goals was" eh?

Which came in response to a similar comment from Tweedle, who actually started up this whole pointless debate.

So what?

Why involve yourself and start with me?

I'm not "starting with you". Why are you "starting" with Todo?

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

Obispo wrote:

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Pretty much like the whole "Rooney > messi" comment was in the first place. It's not like your comment of "then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is." was much better either. Was it?

Much like his "then there'd be a thousand threads about how good the goals was" eh?

Which came in response to a similar comment from Tweedle, who actually started up this whole pointless debate.

So what?

Why involve yourself and start with me?

I'm not "starting with you". Why are you "starting" with Todo?

erm because he took the piss

So? Tweedle was taking the piss with the original comment. Why not start with him?

Obispo wrote:So? Tweedle was taking the piss with the original comment. Why not start with him?

What did he say that was taking the piss?

I don't think so, afterall football is about winning.

but anyway I've never been anti-English and I'm a big fan of Rooney and other english players. but I have to admit I was disappointed at the English team in the WC. I thought they could reach the semis at least.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Ffs, we were having one of those fun foreigners versus English debates and you go and side track it!

Obispo wrote:

Owen Thomas wrote:Besides, I think this forum is generally very respectful of foreign players and their skill. This entire forum (including English part) creams itself over Ronnie/Kaka..etc

Ronnie yes, Kaká less so. Shame really... given that he's the better of the 2.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ricardo Oliveira will be Brazil's first choice striker within a years time.

good shout totallt forgot about him, really hopes he links up will with Gila and kaka this season.

@ Messiah.

Ronaldo is my favourite player ever, so I will argue his case. I don't think Fred is in the same league as Ronaldo, and fat or no fat, he still puts the ball in the back of the net, better than anyone else. Though I accept that if he doesn't offer more movement and effort, then he probably deserves to lose his place. I don't think Fred will get you those goals in tight games though.

It's definitely time for Cafu & Carlos to go. Great servants (especially the former), but one WC too many.

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:I don't think so, afterall football is about winning.

but anyway I've never been anti-English and I'm a big fan of Rooney and other english players. but I have to admit I was disappointed at the English team in the WC. I thought they could reach the semis at least.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:maybe when England win a couple of WC's they will stop that.

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:but if an English player had scored a goal like Kaká's against Argentina, there would be thounsands of threads about it. after all it's an english based forum.

Tweedledum wrote:Which Insua seriosuly fucked up.

If an English player had done that he would have had about 5 of his own threads by now with comments about the lack of English technique

then there'd be a thousand threads saying how over-rated the player is.

Wow, what a pointless remark

Fine.

However the amount of world cups we win doesnt make any difference to how good one of our players is

@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

@Boro

I think you didn't get my point. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I think it's a fact. for example, if England had won the last WC, the WUM's wouldn't have much to say, right?

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:@Boro

I think you didn't get my point. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I think it's a fact. for example, if England had won the last WC, the WUM's wouldn't have much to say, right?

To be honest, the WUMs would more than likely still have alot to say.

Like we were lucky or cheated or some other bullshit

Messiah wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

Is he the new Maradona yet? or is that Saviola....or Aimar.....

borocooper wrote:

todo_poderoso_timão wrote:@Boro

I think you didn't get my point. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I think it's a fact. for example, if England had won the last WC, the WUM's wouldn't have much to say, right?

To be honest, the WUMs would more than likely still have alot to say.

Like we were lucky or cheated or some other bullshit

Or 'it was only a freindly' - as it WAS only a friendly

Messiah wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

And heading.....

And tackling.....

And teamwork...

Owen Thomas wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

Is he the new Maradona yet? or is that Saviola....or Aimar.....

i never said he was the new mara, and not like some posters. What i have said is that when i saw in the u-20 world qualifiers. i knew is was something very very special.

he is not the new mara, he his just messi.

the player that his the reference for all other young argentine players now.

Airma and saviola was never thought of in that kind of light

Tweedledum wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

And heading.....

And tackling.....

And teamwork...

To be fair some of them are not real critical factors in a forward.

Tweedledum wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

And heading.....

And tackling.....

And teamwork...

Hmm, and what's in common among most of those attributes? (ie. heading, tackling, physique)

They're more important for a forward in the English game than they are in the Latin game. So that's why I repeat what I said in this debate earlier, Rooney is better for the English style of play, and Messi is better for the continental style. And since there are more fans in Spain/South America/the rest of Europe than there are in England, Messi will always get more hype and plaudits.

Tweedledum wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

And heading.....

And tackling.....

And teamwork...

1) A fairly irrelevent attribute in a forward.

2) No, he's isn't better at teamwork. Messi's movement and passing within a team context is fantastic. It was seen again today, in particular for Zabaleta's chance that he squandered in the second half.

Saying Rooney is better at teamwork - and I'm not saying his overall team play isn't good - is foolish and usually something that's said just because he pops up in the fullback positions covering. Ultimately, that's not where you want your creative forward.

He expends more energy and tracks back more, but his teamwork isn't half as intelligent as Messi's, atleast not defensively. Messi is quick to attempt to close down the fullbacks or defensive midfielder - depending where he is on the pitch. He defends from the front. Rooney rushes back and follows the ball everywhere, leaving no support up top if there should be a break.

Messiah wrote:

Owen Thomas wrote:

Messiah wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:@ messiah

Last week you said:

'So I shall say Messi is better that Rooney in every department of his game, except for his long shoot'

Do you not think thats a bit of a sweeping comment?

Except his long shoot and physic and he has a little bit better decision making than messi but that’s just because he has been play for 2 year longer.

Is he the new Maradona yet? or is that Saviola....or Aimar.....

i never said he was the new mara, and not like some posters. What i have said is that when i saw in the u-20 world qualifiers. i knew is was something very very special.

he is not the new mara, he his just messi.

the player that his the reference for all other young argentine players now.

Airma and saviola was never thought of in that kind of light

Aimar has been called the new Maradona ever since he stepped out of his mothers womb. Bloody Argentinian hype