germany vs. manutd, who would win

I would more accurate shot then Nani , interesting would be power and curve they get Schweni gets a nice bend and so does Nani.

Calidad wrote:Yea Blut is right.

Rooney looks average for England, while Carrick doesn't even make the squad. Tevez also seems a little lost in the national side.

Poldolski rarely plays/impresses for Bayern, but does well when called upon for Germany. Lucio to a lesser extent (in terms of club performance) is another. Plays ok for Bayern, but very well for the national side.

So Blut is right about not making individual comparisons,

but then you bring up individuals?

Germany would not beat United. End of. Not because Germany arent a good side,

but simply exactly what Blut said - United play together every week, have a balanced system and side, each player knows what is expected of him, and there is no contrictions on who they can play/buy.

Germany would get beaten. No international side can play to the level of the best club sides in the World.

Impossible to predict Bernd, unless it actually happens. National teams can be very coherent and balanced also. And don't forget that club teams change often as well, there are language barriers and what not, while in the national team, usually the same key players play together for years, and therefore know each other well.

of course Germany would beat ManU

hands down

because we actually ARE well-balanced

and individually, only C.Ronaldo could strengthen us

blutgraetsche wrote:Impossible to predict Bernd, unless it actually happens. National teams can be very coherent and balanced also. And don't forget that club teams change often as well, there are language barriers and what not, while in the national team, usually the same key players play together for years, and therefore know each other well.

For some teams this may be the case but not for Manchester United.

A better match would be the World Champions vs the European Club Champions.

There is only one way to decide it....

And that is with Pro Evo!!!

Senor Woody wrote:

Calidad wrote:Yea Blut is right.

Rooney looks average for England, while Carrick doesn't even make the squad. Tevez also seems a little lost in the national side.

Poldolski rarely plays/impresses for Bayern, but does well when called upon for Germany. Lucio to a lesser extent (in terms of club performance) is another. Plays ok for Bayern, but very well for the national side.

So Blut is right about not making individual comparisons,

but then you bring up individuals?

Germany would not beat United. End of. Not because Germany arent a good side,

but simply exactly what Blut said - United play together every week, have a balanced system and side, each player knows what is expected of him, and there is no contrictions on who they can play/buy.

Germany would get beaten. No international side can play to the level of the best club sides in the World.

No.

blut is right because he emphasises that it is the team, and the 'system' employed by a team may or is more important than the individual himself, and the amount of talent he may or may not possess; hence my 'does for the club side, rather than country comment.'

26-Otto-19 wrote:of course Germany would beat ManU

hands down

because we actually ARE well-balanced

and individually, only C.Ronaldo could strengthen us

Cuckoo!

Please,

follow your own advice

and:

think about it

blutgraetsche wrote:Impossible to predict Bernd, unless it actually happens. National teams can be very coherent and balanced also. And don't forget that club teams change often as well, there are language barriers and what not, while in the national team, usually the same key players play together for years, and therefore know each other well.

Of course its impossible to predict in reality Blut, but it worries me how deluded you Germans are becoming.

You are now declaring your team is better than the club champions of Europe (ok, only Otto and Kroos are really), despite having won exactly nothing yet in comparison.

Germany are pretty coherent and balanced indeed, in terms of National sides,

but they are nowhere near the level of Manchester United, or even Chelsea, or Barcelona, or any of the top sides who play the type of footbll against quality opposition that National teams simply cannot. No national side can claim to be better than the top club sides.

In the last how many years- Germany have beaten how many truly top class National sides? 1? maybe 2? So its rather easy to be fooled into thinking performance against Costa Rica, San Marino, even the Czechs make you a really balanced side.

Nothing comparable to a game between United or Chelsea for example, - the toughest more comparable sides you have played from 2006 to now is perhaps Argentina and Italy. 1 win (on pens) and 1 loss is simply not enough quality performances to be making threads like this.

Club sides play a much consistently higher level than international sides ever do. A few burnt out final games of the season are inevitable.

Time for a reality check,

for example do you honestly think a team like United are blighted with "language problems" after such a long season of success? I sincerely doubt it

I didn't declare anything, it's you who is absolutely sure that Manchester United would beat any national team (not just Germany). I just said that unless they actually play against each other, you simply can't make a claim like that.

Not deluded, just very sceptical when it comes to statements like that.

blutgraetsche wrote:I didn't declare anything, it's you who is absolutely sure that Manchester United would beat any national team (not just Germany). I just said that unless they actually play against each other, you simply can't make a claim like that.

Not deluded, just very sceptical when it comes to statements like that.

Surely this is a given though?

Even if England were in Germany's place, I'd still laugh at this comment.

Put it this way, ANYTHING can happen in a one off game for sure, so yes Germany could easily win under such circumstances. But logically, I doubt it

ManU might have won the EPL and the CL but a quick look at the CL campaign including the final shows that they are nothing special at all

AT ALL

so of course Germany would eat them alive

Well, you can doubt that, but I can give you a quick historical example to prove you wrong. The German national team of the 1970s was better / stronger than the Bayern team that won the European Cup three times in a row, because it had the strongest Bayern and Mönchengladbach players (Gladbach won the league more often in the 70s than Bayern) in a very balanced and coherent unit. It had more individual class, and the same level of coherency.

Gerd Müller said that the best team he ever played for was the 1970 WC team, and not Bayern, for example. You simply can't make an 'absolute' claim like that Bernd, it all depends on the team, the players and the coach. Club teams are not 'better' per se.

26-Otto-19 wrote:ManU might have won the EPL and the CL but a quick look at the CL campaign including the final shows that they are nothing special at all

AT ALL

so of course Germany would eat them alive

Cuckoo,

were Germany special against Italy in the WC? Or Argentina?

Or at home or away to the Czechs in qualifying?

Let me answer that for you: NO

You are comparing United's games against QUALITY opposition to some easier games that Germany played in the WC and Euro qualifying.

Typically deluded

think about it

blutgraetsche wrote:Well, you can doubt that, but I can give you a quick historical example to prove you wrong. The German national team of the 1970s was better / stronger than the Bayern team that won the European Cup three times in a row, because it had the strongest Bayern and Mönchengladbach players (Gladbach won the league more often in the 70s than Bayern) in a very balanced and coherent unit. It had more individual class, and the same level of coherency.

Gerd Müller said that the best team he ever played for was the 1970 WC team, and not Bayern, for example. You simply can't make an 'absolute' claim like that Bernd, it all depends on the team, the players and the coach. Club teams are not 'better' per se.

One example, I give you one as well.

The Ajax team of the early 70s was much much better than the Dutch team of the same period. WG

blutgraetsche wrote:Well, you can doubt that, but I can give you a quick historical example to prove you wrong. The German national team of the 1970s was better / stronger than the Bayern team that won the European Cup three times in a row, because it had the strongest Bayern and Mönchengladbach players (Gladbach won the league more often in the 70s than Bayern) in a very balanced and coherent unit. It had more individual class, and the same level of coherency.

Gerd Müller said that the best team he ever played for was the 1970 WC team, and not Bayern, for example. You simply can't make an 'absolute' claim like that Bernd, it all depends on the team, the players and the coach. Club teams are not 'better' per se.

Club football in those days was a lot more restricted Blut.

Its imcomparable to what it is like these days - more money, the top Club get richer, stronger and bigger squads every year to the detriment of smaller clubs. The Champions League has changed Club football forever

Forest were Champions of Europe in 1979 and could hardly be compared to the top international sides of that era.

You cannot harp back to such a bygone era for a comparison.

Markus wrote:
One example, I give you one as well.

The Ajax team of the early 70s was much much better than the Dutch team of the same period. WG

And what exactly do you 'prove'? Nothing, because I, unlike Bernd, never claimed either to be better. I just said that it all depends on the team, and that clubs are not better per se.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Markus wrote:
One example, I give you one as well.

The Ajax team of the early 70s was much much better than the Dutch team of the same period. WG

And what exactly do you 'prove'? Nothing, because I, unlike Bernd, never claimed either to be better. I just said that it all depends on the team, and that clubs are not better per se.

But Clubs are better ..

And lets not forget -

the comparison here is of European Champions against what?

What exactly are we comparing here?

Compare United to Italy (World Champs) would be fairer, and I still believe United would be favourites to win.

Senor Woody wrote:And lets not forget -

the comparison here is of European Champions against what?

What exactly are we comparing here?

Compare United to Italy (World Champs) would be fairer, and I still believe United would be favourites to win.

--------------Buffon
Zambrota--Nesta--Rio---Evra
----Gattuso--Pirlo--De Rossi
-----------Totti--C.Ronaldo
---------------Toni

I think Italy would win.

Senor Woody wrote:
Club football in those days was a lot more restricted Blut.

Its imcomparable to what it is like these days - more money, the top Club get richer, stronger and bigger squads every year to the detriment of smaller clubs. The Champions League has changed Club football forever

Forest were Champions of Europe in 1979 and could hardly be compared to the top international sides of that era.

You cannot harp back to such a bygone era for a comparison.

Dominant clubs like Real Madrid were probably even richer by comparison to today, because their competition was much poorer. That's no argument really.

Some of the top national teams today, let us say Brazil (so you won't accuse me to be a 'deluded German'), can field as much individual class as the richest football clubs.

Forest became European champions because they had a brilliant coach, and because back in those days, only the champions played against each other in knock out matches, making surprises more likely. Stil, only three clubs in football history have managed to win the European Cup three times consecutively, so your attempt to belittle that achievement just because it happened in a different era is kinda odd, to put it mildly.

I basically said that the German national team of the 1970s was stronger than one of the strongest club sides in football history. There is nothing more to add really.

Buffon - yes
Zambrotta - circa 2004, yes
Nesta - hmm, probably but Vida and Rio works for Man Utd, dont break whats not broken.
Totti - naaah
De Rossi - probably
Toni - yes

Gattuso? f@ck off!

Kimbo wrote:Gattuso? f@ck off!

Still better then Carrick.

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Gattuso? f@ck off!

Still better then Carrick.

At running around diving into tackles.

They're different players anyway, compare Gattuso to Hargreaves.

Kimbo wrote:

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Gattuso? f@ck off!

Still better then Carrick.

At running around diving into tackles.

They're different players anyway, compare Gattuso to Hargreaves.

Still better. Maybe not on this form (Gattuso in on $h!t form) but overall he's better.

blutgraetsche wrote:

Senor Woody wrote:
Club football in those days was a lot more restricted Blut.

Its imcomparable to what it is like these days - more money, the top Club get richer, stronger and bigger squads every year to the detriment of smaller clubs. The Champions League has changed Club football forever

Forest were Champions of Europe in 1979 and could hardly be compared to the top international sides of that era.

You cannot harp back to such a bygone era for a comparison.

Dominant clubs like Real Madrid were probably even richer by comparison to today, because their competition was much poorer. That's no argument really.

Some of the top national teams today, let us say Brazil (so you won't accuse me to be a 'deluded German'), can field as much individual class as the richest football clubs.

Forest became European champions because they had a brilliant coach, and because back in those days, only the champions played against each other in knock out matches, making surprises more likely. Stil, only three clubs in football history have managed to win the European Cup three times consecutively, so your attempt to belittle that achievement just because it happened in a different era is kinda odd, to put it mildly.

I basically said that the German national team of the 1970s was stronger than one of the strongest club sides in football history. There is nothing more to add really.

Huh, what achievement am I belittling?

If anything this stupid thread is belittling the achievements of club football-

United are champions of Europe. What are Germany?

If someone English had compared England to Bayern in 2001, please explain to me your own reaction.

I stand by the fact that I would ALWAYS expect the best club sides in the World to beat the national sides.

The days before the Champions League are quite irrelevant if you ask me, unless you are suggesting club football is still like it used to be?

Look at the depth of the big club squads - please dont tell me Germany can compete. Only perhaps Brazil can realistically, and even then thats unlikely

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Gattuso? f@ck off!

Still better then Carrick.

At running around diving into tackles.

They're different players anyway, compare Gattuso to Hargreaves.

Still better. Maybe not on this form (Gattuso in on $h!t form) but overall he's better.

Gettaway man, Gattuso isn't better than Hargreaves in a million years. Hargreaves can pass the ball(and take freekicks).

Kimbo wrote:

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Gattuso? f@ck off!

Still better then Carrick.

At running around diving into tackles.

They're different players anyway, compare Gattuso to Hargreaves.

Still better. Maybe not on this form (Gattuso in on $h!t form) but overall he's better.

Gettaway man, Gattuso isn't better than Hargreaves in a million years. Hargreaves can pass the ball(and take freekicks).

True, Hargreaves can pass the ball better but Gattuso gets more balls, runs more, defends better.

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Gone wrote:

Kimbo wrote:Gattuso? f@ck off!

Still better then Carrick.

At running around diving into tackles.

They're different players anyway, compare Gattuso to Hargreaves.

Still better. Maybe not on this form (Gattuso in on $h!t form) but overall he's better.

Gettaway man, Gattuso isn't better than Hargreaves in a million years. Hargreaves can pass the ball(and take freekicks).

True, Hargreaves can pass the ball better but Gattuso gets more balls, runs more, defends better.

The thing is that that's all Gattuso can do, he runs around tackling people. The guy is limited.