JUVENTUS F.C. - 2008-2009

Calcio Debate: Are Juve Throwing Away Their Youth?

Juventus have already offloaded Antonio Nocerino, Davide Lanzafame and Raffaele Palladino this summer, while they tried to sell Giorgio Chiellini last year, and also reportedly considered releasing Sebastian Giovinco. James Gisone asks whether the Bianconeri transfer men are throwing away the great young talent that they have at their disposal…

Following their post-Calciopoli promotion from Serie B in the summer of 2007, the Juventus board stressed that they would not be building the team the same way that the previous regime used to.

Under the old system of Luciano Moggi, known as the ‘Triade’, Juventus were one of the big players in Europe when it came to the transfer market. The club was known for using rather smart and sneaky tactics to swing deals with lesser clubs in order to secure player signatures. Furthermore, they were also known for spending significant sums of money on world-class talent, and for not integrating players from within the Bianconeri youth system.

But then there was Calciopoli, which resulted in Juve being relegated to Serie B and forcing the club into financial trouble, meaning that many top class players had to be sold. The likes of Cannavaro, Vieira, Ibrahimovic, Thuram, Zambrotta, and Emerson all were offloaded and replaced by youth.

In a way, we could call the relegation a blessing in disguise. It forced the club to re-think their position when spending money, and provided an opportunity for many young Italians in their system to blossom at Italy’s biggest club. And there are many, or should I say there were many.

Slowly but surely right in front of our eyes we are seeing the youth being shipped out in deals, while has-been players are being chased to take up their spots in the squad.

This should be a very worrying sign for fans of the Bianconeri because, as was discussed in a previous Calcio Debate by my colleague Carlo Garganese, Italy are entering into a Golden Era and many of these youths belong to Juventus.

Recently we’ve seen the likes of Antonio Nocerino and Davide Lanzafame move to Palermo - the former on a full ownership and the latter on a co-ownership - in the deal that sent Amauri to Turin. I am a big fan of the Brazilian-born striker, but a striker should have been at the bottom of the priority list, considering the Juve strike force is one of the most potent in Europe.

This brings me on to Raffaele Palladino and the imminent deal sending him to Genoa on a co-ownership. It is absolutely ludicrous that a young, up and coming, versatile player is not being given a chance to shine with the Old Lady.

Throughout last season he was played out of position, and through no fault of his own he was not given enough opportunities to prove his worth. We all witnessed his brilliant display for Italy during the friendly against Portugal in February, which was surely a sign of his talent and potential. Why is it that when he returned to Juve he looked like a shadow of this player? My assessment is that it comes down to confidence and the fact that the coaching staff didn’t place their trust in him.

The most worrying sign is that at one point during the negotiations with Palermo for Amauri, Sebastian Giovinco was even reportedly considered as a pawn in the deal. Officially these reports were unconfirmed but the rumours were strong and if it wasn’t for a Juve fan revolt, then Giovinco may have ended up wearing a Pink jersey this season.

This is particularly shocking as there has been much talk of adding an attacking midfielder this summer such as Dejan Stankovic, who is clearly past his sell-by-date. Once again if not for a Juventus fan revolt; Stankovic, who has repeatedly insulted the club in the past, would be wearing the famous black and white jersey.

Oh, and lets not forget that transfer guru (now that’s a bit of a stretch) Alessio Secco almost succeeded in selling Giorgio Chiellini to Manchester City last year. This youngster was outstanding during Euro 2008 and is proving to be the building block of the future for the Azzurri defence. Now imagine what the Juve defence would’ve looked like without him last season. Pretty scary thought considering Jorge Andrade was lost early on in the campaign.

All in all the future is definitely not bleak considering that Claudio Marchisio, Paulo De Ceglie, and Sebastian Giovinco are back after spending a season on loan elsewhere. But the Juventus board really needs to set things straight as to the direction the club is going to go in. Are the Bianconeri going to build with youth or are they going to continue shipping them out and bringing in has-beens, like Stankovic.

Juventus can no longer dictate the transfer market like they used to, as Serie A has fallen behind the EPL and La Liga in terms of purchasing power. But what they can control (and are very good at) is developing young talent, young talent that must not be thrown away.

James Gisone
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=758901

Shame really that Juve dont get more out of all the work with their talent. allthough i would say that using those talents would be a solution for Juve currently since they seem to me to either have talents or older players. they can prob have succes by buying but if the management was a bit smarter they would save some bucks by keeping some players.

Latest of the club's transfer market activities.

Official: Genoa Snap Up Palladino & Criscito

Just days after offloading Davide Lanzafame and Rey Volpato, Juventus have allowed another two promising youngsters to leave, as Raffaele Palladino and Domenico Criscito both move to Genoa, the former on a co-ownership deal, and the latter on loan.

Palladino, who is widely regarded as one of Serie A’s best young players, has been tipped to leave Juve for quite some time following a difficult season where he started just 14 Serie A games, and was often played out of position on the wing.

The transfer to Genoa was agreed several days ago, but it has now become official, and the Rossoblu will pay €5m for 50 per cent of Palladino’s contract.

Genoa have also successfully negotiated an extension of Domenico Criscito’s loan deal at the club. The young centre back, who signed for Juve from the Grifoni in January 2007, started last season as a first-choice in the Bianconeri defence, however a poor game against Roma in week four led to him being dropped, and eventually shipped back out on loan to the Luigi Ferrrais in January.

The 21-year-old has been reborn in the port city, and Genoa have agreed to extend his loan deal for another season. They will then have the option at the end of this period to sign him on a co-ownership agreement.

Juventus have in fact sold a third young player, with Giuseppe Rizza moving to Juve Stabia, also on a co-ownership deal.

Shame really that Juve dont get more out of all the work with their talent. allthough i would say that using those talents would be a solution for Juve currently since they seem to me to either have talents or older players. they can prob have succes by buying but if the management was a bit smarter they would save some bucks by keeping some players.

That was a pretty awful article. Palladino is already 24 and hasn't shown anything special. He might become a good player some day, but will probably never be good enough for Juventus.

Nocerino had a good start to the season but was very mediocre after the winter break. He ran around like a headless chicken and couldn't even hit the simplest of passes. Once again, not the quality Juve should settle for. He's just a year younger than Sissoko but not nearly as good.

Criscito has a long way to go until he's good enough for a top club, and most Juve fans are satisfied with him being loaned out for another year.

Lanzafame's promising and that's why we only sold half. He'd never get a game for Juve considering our strike force, and this way Palermo will actually play him (contrary to a loan deal).

Our three best young players, those that most of us have high hopes for, have all returned to Juventus. De Ceglie, Marchisio and of course, Sebastian Giovinco.

Sadomin wrote:

Shame really that Juve dont get more out of all the work with their talent. allthough i would say that using those talents would be a solution for Juve currently since they seem to me to either have talents or older players. they can prob have succes by buying but if the management was a bit smarter they would save some bucks by keeping some players.

That was a pretty awful article. Palladino is already 24 and hasn't shown anything special. He might become a good player some day, but will probably never be good enough for Juventus.

Nocerino had a good start to the season but was very mediocre after the winter break. He ran around like a headless chicken and couldn't even hit the simplest of passes. Once again, not the quality Juve should settle for. He's just a year younger than Sissoko but not nearly as good.

Criscito has a long way to go until he's good enough for a top club, and most Juve fans are satisfied with him being loaned out for another year.

Lanzafame's promising and that's why we only sold half. He'd never get a game for Juve considering our strike force, and this way Palermo will actually play him (contrary to a loan deal).

Our three best young players, those that most of us have high hopes for, have all returned to Juventus. De Ceglie, Marchisio and of course, Sebastian Giovinco.

Not a great piece that article, I agree. But don't agree with some of your observations...

- Palladino has been quite impressive as a fringe player last season, the highlight of it was of course his performance for Italy in the friendly against Portugal. Juve should ve loaned him out, this guy will come good sooner or later. But still, Juve do own half of his contract, so its not that bad a deal.

- Lanzafame is probably a decent deal by Juve. But again a loan to a smaller side might have been more prudent. That kid has talent.

- Nocerino, completely disagree. I think he was brilliant in the first half of last season, and didn't get many chances in the second half... in either case, he should have been either kept as a reserve, or loaned out for experience, as the talent is definately there... Hell, I am hoping Inter buy this kid - he would be a good back up for Cambiasso!

- Personally, I think Criscito >> De Ceglie, it was clear by their performances for Genoa and Siena last season. Also, Casiraghi seems to agree. Perhaps continuing the loan is the best solution for Criscito, but if you think De Ceglie is going to be any better for Juve, well.....

Not a great piece that article, I agree. But don't agree with some of your observations...

- Palladino has been quite impressive as a fringe player last season, the highlight of it was of course his performance for Italy in the friendly against Portugal. Juve should ve loaned him out, this guy will come good sooner or later. But still, Juve do own half of his contract, so its not that bad a deal.

Yeah, there's still some hope for him but apart from a few standout games, he was far too inconsistent and in some games he was just awful. Giovinco is younger than him and already a better player so I do not think Palladino has a future at Juventus. We'll see.

- Lanzafame is probably a decent deal by Juve. But again a loan to a smaller side might have been more prudent. That kid has talent.

I disagree. As you can see with Giovinco and Marchisio at Empoli last season, they were benched a lot despite some good performances. Empoli simply had little reason to play them when they knew there'd be little to no chance of them staying in the club. Compare this to De Ceglie who was co-owned instead of loaned out, and played most games for Siena. We lose a million or two, but it benefits the player more.

- Nocerino, completely disagree. I think he was brilliant in the first half of last season, and didn't get many chances in the second half... in either case, he should have been either kept as a reserve, or loaned out for experience, as the talent is definately there... Hell, I am hoping Inter buy this kid - he would be a good back up for Cambiasso!

I really hope you get him.

He has potential, but players like him are plentiful. 7.5 million was just too good of a deal to turn down, and since we already have Sissoko (who does the same job, but better) and Marchisio (who might not be as aggressive, but is certainly not as wasteful with the ball), there was little to no space for Nocerino. Don't forget that we have Zanetti who's been one of Juve's best players the past two years. It's another Palladino case - decent player who could become good, but not worth risking our success for.

Cambiasso is an excellent player and Nocerino has nothing on him, at least not yet. Marchisio has more similar characteristics to Esteban if anything.

- Personally, I think Criscito >> De Ceglie, it was clear by their performances for Genoa and Siena last season. Also, Casiraghi seems to agree. Perhaps continuing the loan is the best solution for Criscito, but if you think De Ceglie is going to be any better for Juve, well.....

I'm not sure if you saw Criscito play for Juve, but he was too weak for the centre and too slow for left back. He's playing in a 3-5-2 at Genoa now which seems to suit him pretty well, but there's no way he's good enough to start for us. Better that he's loaned out and gets some playing time.

De Ceglie has been impressive for Siena and is more of a left back. His crossing is great and he has both the pace and the strength to cope with his defensive duties, unlike Criscito. I have not lost all hope on Criscito, but for the moment being, De Ceglie is a more finished product. I still wouldn't mind us signing another left back, though.

Hello Sadomin, welcome aboard.
You seem pretty keen on the old lady. Do you think she will challenge for pots next season?

New kit;

laughing uncontrollably at some of the assessments on nocerino. i have never seen a CM be so wasteful with the ball and at the same time be as incompetent in his distribution. his turnovers were plentyful and he offered nothing in transition.

judging his characteristics, at best, he'll be a 1-dimensional ball-winner and a dime a dozen in italy. i see absolutly no talent there to differentiate between him and the other 1-dimensional muckers in italy and this is why juve cleverly choose to send him to palermo while keeping a player similar in terms of defensive ability while offering more offensively, in momo. even marchisio for that matter.

as for palladino, at best he'll be a less successful version of nicola amoruso...nothing to write home about.

stileBN wrote:laughing uncontrollably at some of the assessments on nocerino. i have never seen a CM be so wasteful with the ball and at the same time be as incompetent in his distribution. his turnovers were plentyful and he offered nothing in transition.

judging his characteristics, at best, he'll be a 1-dimensional ball-winner and a dime a dozen in italy. i see absolutly no talent there to differentiate between him and the other 1-dimensional muckers in italy and this is why juve cleverly choose to send him to palermo while keeping a player similar in terms of defensive ability while offering more offensively, in momo. even marchisio for that matter.

as for palladino, at best he'll be a less successful version of nicola amoruso...nothing to write home about.

Welcome to the MB, are you a Juve fan?

I guess you and me think very differently. Nocerino was very impressive in the first half of last season, when he ended up with such a big responsibility of protecting Juve's defence - he outclassed everyone else in that role at Juve, including C Zanetti. 1 dimensional? I disagree.

Anyways, if you are a Juve fan, I guess then we both are happy that he is no longer a Juve player Lets see how he does at Palermo. IMO we will see either him or Donadel playing in an azzurri shirt in 2010.

And now we have Poulsen's name being associated with Juventus. But I am not sure if we need another defensive midfielder when we already have Sissoko & Zanetti while the real requirement IMO is a creative MF who will spread the play etc. But before that, any opinions about how Poulsen is as a player?

He's a good DM and worked especially well plugging the gaps for Sevilla with their wingers/fullbacks always bombing forward. Occasionally filled in at CB during matches for them. He definitely won't shy away from a foul. But like you said, can't see why you need him if you already have Sissoko.

He's better on the ball than Sissoko, but like you say not the sort of player you need. Can't see Sevilla letting him go either unless you overpay for him.

Doesn't he still have that 12m euro release clause in his contract? I thought the only reason we decided not to go for him is because he's already 27 or 28, and Keita is a bit more versatile (plus Pep wants to keep Marquez, which would overcrowd the DM position).

TarunDang wrote:And now we have Poulsen's name being associated with Juventus. But I am not sure if we need another defensive midfielder when we already have Sissoko & Zanetti while the real requirement IMO is a creative MF who will spread the play etc. But before that, any opinions about how Poulsen is as a player?

He plays dirty, the same player Totti spat on, remember? Also remember the furore when he played agaisnt Milan in the CL - Gattuso and Ancellotti were very pissed. Gattuso I can understand, but Ancellotti usually does not speak out like that about a player.

The brighter side of getting him is that he is sure to get into the skin of Totti & Kaka (there is history) and probably will get volatile players like Ibra sent off!

And here is another interesting article to spice up this debate -


08/07/2008 16:05
Calcio Debate: Do Juve Need To Sign Some Big Names?
Sevilla midfielder Christian Poulsen is reportedly just days, or even hours, away from completing his transfer to Juventus. Carlo Garganese asks whether the Bianconeri need to splash out on some bigger names than the likes of the Danish international…

For at least six months now the Juventus management have been repeatedly stating that their top priority this summer will be to sign a top class centre midfielder. This has seen the Bianconeri linked to a host of top names around Europe, yet if the latest reports in the Italian press are to be believed, it appears as if the Old Lady will be settling for Sevilla hardman Christian Poulsen.

Considering the fact that Juve are one of the most prestigious clubs in the world, and indeed Italy’s most successful outfit, you can forgive the fans for being just a touch disappointed that having been associated with the likes of Diego, Rafael van der Vaart, Marek Hamsik, Alberto Aquilani, and Xabi Alonso, that the Bianconeri should eventually plump for a rather modest name in Poulsen.

This is not to say that the 28-year-old is a bad player. He has twice been named Danish Player of the Year, and indeed he has more often than not impressed me when I have seen him play. Poulsen is a no-nonsense holding midfielder (just ask Francesco Totti), who has personality, and will not be fazed by what awaits him in Serie A. However is he really the man to plug the hole in Juve’s midfield?

If Poulsen were to be signed, in addition to a top class midfielder, then I for one would be all for his purchase, as he would add good squad depth. Whether this proves to be the case remains to be seen. If Poulsen proves to be Juve’s only acquisition in this area, then the transfer directors are making another huge blunder. Ask yourself if you can honestly see a centre midfield of Poulsen and Sissoko leading the club to Serie A or Champions League glory. It seems highly unlikely.

The problem with the new Juve management is that rather than spend their entire budget on two or three guaranteed top class players, they would rather even out the funds on six or seven ‘good’ players. This kind of policy is a recipe for disaster at a big club like La Vecchia Signora.

The biggest myth about last summer’s transfer campaign is that Juve did not have the money available in order for them to immediately compete for the Scudetto. In truth, the Bianconeri comfortably outspent their rivals, bringing in a whole host of ‘good’, but not ‘great’, players. Indeed they thrashed out a whopping €43m just on Vincenzo Iaquinta, Sergio Almiron, Tiago Mendes and Jorge Andrade.

Rather than spread out this vast sum of cash on four players, it would have been far more beneficial to blow the entire €43m on two cast-iron top class stars. Had they done this, I am certain that Juve would have been there or thereabouts in the Scudetto race. The squad was already big enough to cope with injuries, and none of these four players, with the exception of Iaquinta, played any serious part in the first team. As it turned out, it was largely the old guard of Buffon, Camoranesi, Nedved, Del Piero and Trezeguet, as well as another player from the old regime, Chiellini, who carried the team last season.

If Juve learn from their mistakes from last summer, they will realise that they are better off spending big on one or two names, rather than going for four or five cheaper options. Alessio Secco has splashed out on one player, Amauri, unfortunately it is an area that Juve were already well stacked in. It is quite clear that the areas that need to be addressed are centre back, left back and centre midfield.

Of course spending vast sums of money never guarantees success, and indeed the secret behind Luciano Moggi’s achievements was that he was a shrewd market operator, who always knew a bargain when he saw one.

Having said this though, the current management need to realise that the only way the club are going to become, as Amauri said yesterday, the “Kings of Italy and Europe again”, is if they buy some top stars. The only world renowned names Juve have now are all over 30, and are in the twilight of their careers. Apart from Buffon, within a couple of years or so they will all be gone.

btw, Poulsen has said he knows nothing about Juve's interest and is content to stay at Sevilla.

Though that's the exact same thing he said in April about Barça, even though we had definitely made an enquiry about him.

I guess that's what they are told to say to the media by their club's management until something definite is on the cards

10/07/2008 05:54
Juve Pull Out Of Alonso Deal
Juventus have reportedly pulled the plug on their pursuit of Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso, a decision which could have vast repercussions for both clubs’ transfer plans…

The Sun claims Juve have scrapped their plans to bring Alonso to Turin, despite the move appearing all but done after several weeks of negotiations.

Prior to EURO 2008, it seemed only a matter of putting to pen to paper but closing talks were put off during the tournament and have failed to pick up where they left off.

It is believed the Reds are now refusing to budge from their original ₤16million asking price, a figure the Old Lady simply will not – or cannot – meet.

Hence, the Bianconeri have turned to alternative targets such as Sevilla’s Christian Poulsen and Internazionale’s Dejan Stankovic – the latter of whose proposed move has met with angry protests from the Juve faithful.

But the situation at Anfield is even more interesting, as Alonso’s non-departure could effectively scupper Rafa Benitez’s hopes of landing Aston Villa wantaway Gareth Barry.

It is understood Benitez was to use the cash from the Basque playmaker’s transfer to fund the Barry deal, as Villa are demanding ₤18million for their skipper. The Merseyside giants have repeatedly denied that this was the case, but that stance will most certainly be tested now.

The timing of these happenings also leaves Barry in a particularly unpleasant situation, as the England midfielder effectively severed ties with Villa recently when he publicly declared his desire to join Liverpool.

As Villa have already secured a replacement in Steve Sidwell, the 27-year-old could be out in the cold if Benitez decides to drop the deal and focus on attacking reinforcements instead.

Poulsen pens Juve deal - report Saturday 12 July, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juventus will reportedly announce the arrival of £6m signing Christian Poulsen over the weekend.

According to several newspaper sources in both Italy and Spain, negotiations with Sevilla were concluded late last night.


The 28-year-old Dane is expected to put pen to paper over the next few hours on a four-year contract worth £2.5m per season.


Poulsen is notorious in Italy for the coming together with Francesco Totti during a 0-0 draw in Euro 2004.


Totti claimed he had been repeatedly provoked when he was caught on camera spitting at the midfielder.


The Danish international’s arrival bolsters the collection of pugnacious defensive midfielders at Juventus, joining the likes of Cristiano Zanetti and Momo Sissoko.


A creative figure is still required, so talks for Xabi Alonso could well be revived despite his £15m price-tag.


The Liverpool star had seemed on the verge of a switch for most of the summer, but veering towards Poulsen scuppered those negotiations.


It is now reported that the Bianconeri are happy to splash out on both Poulsen and Xabi Alonso for their Champions League campaign.

Strange to me no not this one but the combination of Sissoko and Poulsen in midfield , its have to be a rhombus midfield otherwise no creativity whatsoever.

It seems Poulsen would be a back-up alongside Sissoko & Juventus is still looking to sign Alonso. A rhombus midfield does not sound like a bad idea at all though

Well we got the other deep lying midfielder even if it is a DM rather then a DLP , time to move for a AM so we can take advantage of the two DMs we have and be tactically flexible , why are we not in for VDV boggles me or even for Arda Turan the guy looked like he can play AM,CM (box to box) etc.

Somehow the management seems stuck with just one name...Alonso. I hope they don't close shop for a MF after signing Poulsen.

Another counter theory could be that with the arrival of Amauri & strike force strengthening, DP is going to drop back & play as AM protected by Poulsen & Sissoko in a rhombus midfield.

---------------sissoko-------poulsen-----------
camo------------------------------------nedved
-------------------del piero---------------------
----------amauri-------------trez---------------

DS wrote:Well we got the other deep lying midfielder even if it is a DM rather then a DLP , time to move for a AM so we can take advantage of the two DMs we have and be tactically flexible , why are we not in for VDV boggles me or even for Arda Turan the guy looked like he can play AM,CM (box to box) etc.

Well Delps is 34 and we have alot of games.We should definately look for a AM etc or the manager thinks one of the young one is going to do that.

Ahh, I forgot about Amauri. Would that mean Delps playing the Trequartista role behind Amauri and Trezeguet?

I am sure Ranieri will look to use that formation at times during the season. And it sounds good to me. But that still should not be a reason for Juventus not buying an AM.

Black Magic wrote:Ahh, I forgot about Amauri. Would that mean Delps playing the Trequartista role behind Amauri and Trezeguet?

Completely agree. Giovinco might get a chance there but then he is still inexperienced.
Another department where I would have wanted to see a signing would have been the LW...a back-up for the aging Nedved. Juventus were reported to be interested in Shweinstiger of Bayern.

DS wrote:Well Delps is 34 and we have alot of games.We should definately look for a AM etc or the manager thinks one of the young one is going to do that.

You think Marchisio or Giovinco maybe a reason , both are very talented.

This was before your post.


Schweni would solve lot of problems , he's the perfect player for the rhombus I said we could use , can play AM ,RM,LM probably what we need and he needs a climate change.

Yeah...would not doubt the talent these 2 youngsters have. Especially Giovinco.
And have not heard of the Schweinstiger connection lately but I really view him as a great player who can single-handedly solve Juve's midfield problems & like you said very versatile

DS wrote:You think Marchisio or Giovinco maybe a reason , both are very talented.

This was before your post.


Schweni would solve lot of problems , he's the perfect player for the rhombus I said we could use , can play AM ,RM,LM probably what we need and he needs a climate change.

Poulsen is a good player, though I am amazed Sevilla have let their two central midfielders go in the same season, coupled with the loss of Alves of course. But yes Poulsen would make a fine addition to any squad, but I still don't see much creativity in that mifield.

I agree with DS, Arda & VDV would be fantastic buys and much needed. Both seem capable of playing in a number of positions. On the basis of the Euros, Arda looked comfortable on either wing, and even seemed to play as an SS at times.

Nedved is a legend, but surely he can't have much left in the tank? Mauro & Alex aren't getting any younger either.