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    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:48 am

    Result wise that was the best that can be hoped I dont think that was that great a performance.
    And Theo Walcott isnt that magician everybody is hoping for , yeah I am going against the stream but Walcott did the same here what Joe Cole did finish off his chances but really did he had a 9 game like Sun reported.
    To be fair that rating isnt that far to be a teen and finish with such composure in such a pressure game is huge but he didnt do a Messi a Ronaldo here whatever anybody says.

    The best football England played for a while was when Croatia were down to 10 men and Rooney started playmaking(surprise surprise) he started getting the ball , the space ,people around him started making runs.

    Good result but the same point England looked good when they tried to attack the Croats as they felt comfortable against 10 men , couldnt they have done it against 11.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:38 am

    Did anybody think it was Karma after Bilic comments.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:40 am

    DAVID JAMES: Dropped
    a 13th-minute corner, got away with it and never got the chance to
    redeem himself as Croatia fell apart. Could do nothing about the goal. 5


    WES BROWN: Neat and tidy. Never looked much of a danger
    going forward but made no mistakes at the back. That one-on-one ball
    control training he was given on Monday clearly did the trick. 7


    JOHN TERRY: Produced a couple of good blocks in Croatia's
    only ten minutes of real pressure but occasionally his touch was a tad
    too casual for comfort - putting David James under unnecessary
    pressure. 7


    RIO FERDINAND: Smooth in defence and even strode forward
    once or twice, creating panic in the Croat defence in the build-up to
    the first goal. Did nothing wrong though never really tested. 7


    ASHLEY COLE: Most of Croatia's threat came down Cole's side
    and he struggled to contain first Ivica Olic and then Dario Srna, but
    as that threat waned, Cole's confidence increased and he was an
    attacking force after the break. 6


    THEO WALCOTT: After 25 minutes it looked like a mistake to
    have thrown Walcott in as his first touch was woeful. By the end of the
    match it looked like a masterstroke. Now that's the way to take your
    chance. Wow. 9.


    GARETH BARRY: Almost unnoticeable but that's what you want
    in that role. Martin O'Neill will be happy if he can keep Luka Modric
    that quiet on Monday night. 7


    FRANK LAMPARD: His best game for some time in an England
    shirt - he's a player who reacts well to others playing well around
    him. A luxury in a poor side, but a smooth cog in a well-oiled machine.
    Now what will Fabio do when Steven Gerrard is fit? 7


    JOE COLE: Very little evidence of the explosive performance
    we saw against Andorra as he struggled to make his mark on the game -
    until Robert Kovac made his mark on his head. 5


    WAYNE ROONEY: A typical Rooney performance - just when you
    were cursing him for dropping too deep and giving away silly
    free-kicks, his moment of vision sets up Walcott for his second goal.
    And then he scores the third with a calm finish. And then makes the
    fourth. To those who wrote in asking why he won't be dropped - that's
    why. 8


    EMILE HESKEY: Did his job perfectly. Hassled the defenders,
    drew fouls (though not the penalty he should have had) and then played
    a role in England's second with his back to goal. 7



    SUBS


    JERMAINE JENAS (on for Joe Cole, 55):
    Had some joy down that left side and played a part in England's third goal with the pull-back for Rooney.

    F365.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:41 am

    Another point to be noted was their goal ofcourse , okay Terry got a boot in the face and all and played allowed to go on but shouldnt a CM be covering for Terry as he ventured as far as half way line , if not a CM then a FB.
    dont panic!
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    Post by dont panic! Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:53 am

    DS wrote:Result wise that was the best that can be hoped I dont think that was that great a performance.
    And Theo Walcott isnt that magician everybody is hoping for , yeah I am going against the stream but Walcott did the same here what Joe Cole did finish off his chances but really did he had a 9 game like Sun reported.
    To be fair that rating isnt that far to be a teen and finish with such composure in such a pressure game is huge but he didnt do a Messi a Ronaldo here whatever anybody says.

    The best football England played for a while was when Croatia were down to 10 men and Rooney started playmaking(surprise surprise) he started getting the ball , the space ,people around him started making runs.

    Good result but the same point England looked good when they tried to attack the Croats as they felt comfortable against 10 men , couldnt they have done it against 11.

    ?...they were doing it against 11 men.or were they losing and playing badly until croatia lost a player?

    cant please some people...we played well...should have had a penalty...croatians goal shouldnt have been allowed...it was a well deserved and well worked win....something an english fan hasnt seen for a while..we should enjoy it
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:41 am

    @ Parky : *now* you can say you're in the driving seat Wink

    Great result guys ! cheers Ale
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:41 am

    We were doing ok dont panic , pens decisions happen.
    It was a scrappy goal , nothing takes away from a great result and a good performance but lets try to be objective and try to improve.
    The point I was making wasnt that England played well when they had the numerial advantage the point I am making is why England played better when the numerical advantage.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:47 am

    I think you misunderstood , couldnt they do it against 11 doesnt mean they cant but there is a caution which at times is overdone.
    The important point for me was Rooney getting space which made England look and feel better which wasnt happening with 11 vs 11 so we can probably plan that a bit better.
    Roger Hunt
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    Post by Roger Hunt Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:20 am

    Looks like the Croatia hype might be coming to an end?

    A good performance, got some luck but capitalised on it when it mattered. I suspect we'll screw it all up by drawing against Andorra at home or some such, but a good result all the same.

    Rooney is the best playmaker we have, despite the fact that when the Croats denied him space in the first half he failed to make much of an impact. He needs to be playing in that SS role.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:13 am

    It's official. Theo Walcott is the new
    David Beckham, England are back, and Fabio Capello has turned the Three
    Lions into world-beaters. Yup, Fleet Street has got itself very, very
    excited by the 4-1 win in England...

    'The end of the world, let alone the World Cup, was far from
    nigh in Zagreb. The collision of English and foreign particles here at
    the Maksimir Stadium produced only oblivion for the Croatians, who were
    sent spinning by the comet-like Theo Walcott. Sparks flew but it was
    Croatia who burned. 'England were a delight to behold, soon delivering the most
    expansive football seen since the thrashing of Germany in 2001. The
    David Beckham era is over, the Walcott era had begun. 'Even Mario Mandzukic's breakaway riposte could not stop the
    carnival on the away terrace, which intensified when Walcott scampered
    through to seal his hat-trick. Beckham replaced him soon after, but the
    No 7 shirt belongs to Walcott now' - Henry Winter, The Daily Telegraph.

    'SAY it loud, say it proud - England are back.
    'Fabio Capello is leading the country out of the dark ages and we are on course for the 2010 World Cup finals.
    'This was the best England performance since the 5-1 victory over Germany in Munich seven years ago' - Shaun Custis, The Sun.

    'It was two years later than scheduled but when Theo Walcott
    marks his coming of age for England in this sort of style, frankly, who
    cares about the wait? The boy-man from Arsenal scored a stunning
    hat-trick last night to deliver his side a fabulous victory and at
    last, for the first time in ages, English football had an England
    football team that matched their expectations. If only they could do
    this every time.
    'It is a long road to the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, and an
    even rockier path back to credibility for the England football team.
    But what a start. For Fabio Capello this was the England manager's
    Munich moment, just as when Sven Goran Eriksson announced his arrival
    seven years earlier with that 5-1 win over Germany in that very city.
    Capello dared to play Walcott, as well as Joe Cole, and his formation
    paid off handsomely. He has made some big decisions in the last month,
    leaving out Michael Owen above all, and no one would quibble now that
    he has made the wrong call' - Sam Wallace, The Independent.

    'The sheer joy was mightier than even the achievement of
    wrecking Croatia's proud unbeaten record of 35 qualifying matches at
    home. With Theo Walcott's first goals for his country packaged as a
    hat-trick, this was the most uncanny result for England since the 5-1
    trouncing of Germany in 2001. In his first fixture of genuine
    significance, Fabio Capello has awakened immense expectations. Perhaps
    he is also the man to meet them.
    'Croatia were left short-staffed by a red card for Robert Kovac
    in the 51st minute, when England were only one ahead, but his offence
    was born of an inability to cope with these piratical visitors. His
    elbow to the head of Joe Cole left the Chelsea midfielder so bloodied
    and dazed that he had to be replaced by Jermaine Jenas. The damage done
    to Croatia in their World Cup campaign will take far longer to heal' - Kevin McCarra, The Guardian.

    'The end of the world is not, after all, nigh, but there was
    a very big bang in Zagreb yesterday, the sound of English football
    exploding into vibrant life under the guidance of its imported manager,
    Fabio Capello. This was creation, indeed, quite simply the greatest
    night for the national team since Sven-Göran Eriksson's players
    returned from Munich seven years ago, having thumped Germany 5-1.
    'If perhaps not as patriotically emotive as that occasion, this
    result was every bit its equal in terms of achievement, coming against
    a country who had never lost a competitive match on home soil. 'It was more significant than Munich in many ways, for it
    confirmed the emergence of a player with the potential to change
    English football, accelerating it towards the future like so many
    protons in a Large Hadron Collider. Theo Walcott, 19 and with the
    exuberance of youth, scored the first international hat-trick for
    England in a competitive match since Michael Owen against Germany in
    2001. In doing so, he inspired a group of players who were believed to
    be at their lowest ebb and altered the dynamic around them overnight' -
    Martin Samuel, The Times.

    'Not for the first time yesterday, the end of the world was averted.
    'There was no large black hole waiting for Fabio Capello. No
    sense that the aura surrounding England's manager had disappeared with
    a rather large bang. On the contrary. By last night it felt like England had finally woken to the dawn of a bright new era.
    'Capello had the courage to select Theo Walcott in a role so
    long occupied by David Beckham and my how that gamble paid off. Not
    only in the form of a quite brilliant hat-trick for the precociously
    gifted young winger but in the manner in which he terrorised a Croatian
    side that, until last night, had never lost a qualifier on home soil. 'Not since Wayne Rooney burst onto the international scene has
    watching England been this exciting. Not since Rooney then followed
    that fine debut with his goals against Croatia at the European
    Championships in Portugal has there been such a sharp sense of
    optimism. This felt much as it did when England went to Munich and beat
    the Germans 5-1. That day Michael Owen scored a hat-trick and this time
    the wonderful Walcott inflicted the majority of the damage. 'If only more people could have seen it on television' - Matt Lawton, The Daily Mail.

    I am sorry but Walcott deserves a 8 rather then a 9 here and not a 10 according to these papers.
    On the other hand Lampard had an excellent game so now what for Gerrard ? Hargreaves ?
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    Post by Parks lives Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:25 am

    I still can't believe why people like Harry Redknapp are saying we still have to fit Gerrard into the side somehow. After a performance like that, the team should be unchanged for the next game.

    Lampard did excellently last night in keeping everything simple, which is so unlike him. Stayed in position and kept his passes simple. Don't think I've ever seen Gerrard do that for England, he always wants to do his superman show.

    There's no way he should be playing on the wings either.
    bluenine
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    Post by bluenine Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:41 am

    Football Genius wrote:
    Olé wrote:So are England back to being world-beaters?

    We beat a 10man Croatian team, who wasn't at full strength.... so no, besides we've never been world beaters....

    However it appears Capello is on the right track, unforgiving of poor performances, uninterested in 'names', and picks in form players (most of the time... Young grrr)

    I don't believe this team will ever be the best international footballing team in the world, but under Capello... like Sven we can become efficient.
    <Ale> Most sensible post so far! ok
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    Post by Isco Benny Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:43 am

    bluenine wrote:
    Football Genius wrote:
    Olé wrote:So are England back to being world-beaters?

    We beat a 10man Croatian team, who wasn't at full strength.... so no, besides we've never been world beaters....

    However it appears Capello is on the right track, unforgiving of poor performances, uninterested in 'names', and picks in form players (most of the time... Young grrr)

    I don't believe this team will ever be the best international footballing team in the world, but under Capello... like Sven we can become efficient.
    <Ale> Most sensible post so far! ok

    But through all the criticism of Enlgnad's performances last time against Croatia, rarely did people make clear that both sides were injury ravaged. We had Campbell and Lescott at centreback at Wembley for example.

    I always said from the start Croatia had become overhyped, mostlry by themselves. thus becoming the "new" England.

    We went into the game last night as clear underdogs, and it helped.

    Long may people continue to think we're $h!t says I Ale
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    Post by Khadrim Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:03 pm

    Parks lives wrote:I still can't believe why people like Harry Redknapp are saying we still have to fit Gerrard into the side somehow. After a performance like that, the team should be unchanged for the next game.

    Lampard did excellently last night in keeping everything simple, which is so unlike him. Stayed in position and kept his passes simple. Don't think I've ever seen Gerrard do that for England, he always wants to do his superman show.

    There's no way he should be playing on the wings either.

    Except Capello has England passing and keeping hold of the ball regardless of who plays.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/04/englandfootballteam1

    "There is one way, however, in which England are progressing. In each of Capello's five matches in charge the side have maintained more possession than their opponents, even in the 1-0 defeat in France, where the visitors had 56.6% of the ball. The figure was even higher in the supposedly muddled draw against the Czech Republic - 56.8%. England also passed the ball better than their five opponents, reaching a 87.7% completion rate in Paris."

    To me this has more to do with Barry than any other player. The only ever-present in the England side. I would be more worried if he was injured.

    England played well in a 4-4-2 with Barry and Gerrard but McClaren panicked after the loss against Russia away and changed the system against Croatia. Hopefully Capello being more experienced won't do the same.
    S4P
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    Post by S4P Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:05 pm

    Parks lives wrote:I still can't believe why people like Harry Redknapp are saying we still have to fit Gerrard into the side somehow. After a performance like that, the team should be unchanged for the next game.

    Lampard did excellently last night in keeping everything simple, which is so unlike him. Stayed in position and kept his passes simple. Don't think I've ever seen Gerrard do that for England, he always wants to do his superman show.

    There's no way he should be playing on the wings either.

    Well before the Czech Republic game, McManaman was telling us that you could play Gerrard anywhere and he'd be world class. Since James must be close to international retirement maybe we should put Stevie G between the sticks.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:12 pm

    Khadrim wrote:
    Parks lives wrote:I still can't believe why people like Harry Redknapp are saying we still have to fit Gerrard into the side somehow. After a performance like that, the team should be unchanged for the next game.

    Lampard did excellently last night in keeping everything simple, which is so unlike him. Stayed in position and kept his passes simple. Don't think I've ever seen Gerrard do that for England, he always wants to do his superman show.

    There's no way he should be playing on the wings either.

    Except Capello has England passing and keeping hold of the ball regardless of who plays.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/04/englandfootballteam1

    "There is one way, however, in which England are progressing. In each of Capello's five matches in charge the side have maintained more possession than their opponents, even in the 1-0 defeat in France, where the visitors had 56.6% of the ball. The figure was even higher in the supposedly muddled draw against the Czech Republic - 56.8%. England also passed the ball better than their five opponents, reaching a 87.7% completion rate in Paris."

    To me this has more to do with Barry than any other player. The only ever-present in the England side. I would be more worried if he was injured.

    England played well in a 4-4-2 with Barry and Gerrard but McClaren panicked after the loss against Russia away and changed the system against Croatia. Hopefully Capello being more experienced won't do the same.
    I dont think so , its about making our CM less adventurous rather then just down to Barry even if we put Hargreaves and asked them to keep it simple the result will be the same.

    If it was to only Barry you would have seen the characteristics not only with England but say Aston Villa too.


    Last edited by DS on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:13 pm

    Roger Hunt wrote:Looks like the Croatia hype might be coming to an end?

    A good performance, got some luck but capitalised on it when it mattered. I suspect we'll screw it all up by drawing against Andorra at home or some such, but a good result all the same.

    Rooney is the best playmaker we have, despite the fact that when the Croats denied him space in the first half he failed to make much of an impact. He needs to be playing in that SS role.
    Thats what I am saying.
    We need more movement in our lineup to give Rooney some space.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:28 pm

    The Football
    Association have asked FIFA to investigate allegations of racial abuse
    towards England forward Emile Heskey from Croatia fans during last
    night's World Cup qualifier in Zagreb.
    Full story to follow.
    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:30 pm

    So, who will be dropped for Gerrard's return?

    cheers
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:33 pm

    Lampard ?

    It is a question for Capello will he play Gerrard Hargreaves when they are fit ?
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    Post by Dwarf Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:34 pm

    Tweedle wrote:So, who will be dropped for Gerrard's return?

    cheers

    Barry?

    No true England messiah could possibly think there's any central midfield combination better than Lampard and Gerrard...
    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:34 pm

    I'd drop Wes Brown ok

    Play Gerrard right back.
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:35 pm

    And dont England have a better targetman then Heskey Ashton Bent.
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:36 pm

    Tweedle wrote:I'd drop Wes Brown ok

    Play Gerrard right back.
    Not the worst idea but he wants to play CM and has played only 5 times in that position for England remember , 2nd wont his discipline get tested there.
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    Post by Tweesus Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:38 pm

    DS wrote:And dont England have a better targetman then Heskey Ashton Bent.

    Heskey did a great job last night and for that alone, he deserves to start the next game.
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:40 pm

    Yes he did but you must look for better 2ndly he will need a replacement if not a replacement a backup.
    dont panic!
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    Post by dont panic! Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:40 pm

    DS wrote:We were doing ok dont panic , pens decisions happen.
    It was a scrappy goal , nothing takes away from a great result and a good performance but lets try to be objective and try to improve.
    The point I was making wasnt that England played well when they had the numerial advantage the point I am making is why England played better when the numerical advantage.

    hi:)

    i thought england played well without numerical advantage too...
    DS
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    Post by DS Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:42 pm

    Yeah it was decent considering away ground , negative vibe going around but I think England can play as well as they did against 10 , against 11.
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    Post by Parks lives Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:01 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    DS wrote:And dont England have a better targetman then Heskey Ashton Bent.

    Heskey did a great job last night and for that alone, he deserves to start the next game.

    Agree there, even though Ashton is potentially the better player.

    Heskey has to start the next game. He can pin back the central defenders, whilst Cole and Walcott do that to the full backs leaving loads of space for Rooney to drop and create the play.
    Tweesus
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    Post by Tweesus Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:05 pm

    Parks lives wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:
    DS wrote:And dont England have a better targetman then Heskey Ashton Bent.

    Heskey did a great job last night and for that alone, he deserves to start the next game.

    Agree there, even though Ashton is potentially the better player.

    Heskey has to start the next game. He can pin back the central defenders, whilst Cole and Walcott do that to the full backs leaving loads of space for Rooney to drop and create the play.

    Yep. Heskey is far more mobile than Ashton. He's the more technical player and would get you more goals but Heskey will indirectly get you goals by working the centre backs and creating space for the likes of Rooney and Walcott.

    There's a stat with Owen that shows this isn't there?

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