Arsenal under Wenger

First of all, well done to Spurs tonight. I must admit (and I hope this doesn't sound like sour grapes) I thought your team looked really poor, but they deserve a hell of a lot of credit for taking their chances, and for digging deep and getting a result when it looked improbable and when it would have been easy to fold and give in. They showed a lot of courage and commitment and that is commendable.

On to Arsenal though, and probably on to topics that have been discussed elsewhere. If so I apologise, I've just got home and I haven't had the chance to read anything yet, and I think this deserves a topic of its own.

I hope this isn't too knee-jerk a topic. It goes without saying that I am disgusted with tonight, and what I say is probably a result of this. I am fuming with the team, but at the same time much of what I say I've said from the very start of the season. I'm sure more optimistic Arsenal fans will pour scorn on what I say, but for me, the predictability of this situation makes me feel that I am justified in posting this topic.

1) This defence is the worst I've ever seen at Arsenal, and is probably as bad as any defence at the club in the last 30 years. There is no leadership, commitment or quality on display. I can not believe we've let in four goals against such a poor side, and one who threatened so rarely in the match. It's so dispiriting, and so wearyingly predictable.

2) This is the essence of the topic, do people think Arsenal can win another major trophy under Wenger? My thoughts are that unless he gets his head out of the sand, and stops viewing the team with such myopic perspective, we won't celebrate success under Wenger again. Partly because of the flaws he is creating in the team, and partly because the competition is so much stronger now. What aggravates me so much at the moment is that I firmly believe that most of these problems were avoidable and obvious. Every game where Arsenal drop points, the faults are so predictable and obvious, and Wenger is responsible for not addressing this. The midfield has no defensive balance, the defence is an absolute shambles and there is no leadership. I can't imagine any of the top teams letting a result slip like we did tonight. Of course the team can still produce breath-taking displays, I don't doubt the attacking quality we have. But I do doubt the overall strength of the team, and I believe there is a fundamental weakness and frailty about this Arsenal side that will inhibit and obstruct any genuine chances we get at winning trophies. And I think the manager takes the responsibility for this because he has made no effort at addressing the situation. Furthermore, I find myself questioning his tactics more and more (such as playing Song at right-back the other week and Eboue in the centre of midfield).

If money at the club is genuinely restrictive I am doing Wenger a disservice, but I don't think it is as tight as he is acting. The club has undermined itself by not being more proactive and accommodating to the likes of Flamini, and for relatively small sums of money we have undermined our prospects on the pitch considerably. I am just fed up of this pathetic weakness about our team (and obviously the defence more than any other area) and I'm starting to believe that Wenger is too stubborn to actually address these issues. With other teams willing to invest so much money, I don't think our current philosophy can bear success in its current form.

I may be reacting too harshly here, and if this generates debate I will offer more measured and considered thoughts in the next day or two (or whenever I next get the chance to post) when I am less angry, inebriated and tired. I'm just interested to know if Arsenal fans believe Wenger can produce a team to rival the one we had between 2002-04 for example, and whether other supporters have any faith in him being able to rectify the issues that plague the side currently.

Between the Silvestre goal and the Jenas goal we were absolutely abysmal. But you shouldn't have had the corner anyway. Second half we put a ton of effort in playing catch up but apparently the Ref thought he was overseeing a basketball game and was dishing out cards for literally standing still.

But we fought back and showed some steel we didnt show under Ramos. I'd say its a fair result. The holes in the Spurs squad are all to see, and the Holes in the Arsenal team are quite similar, but they're better masked by a more settled team playing to a set blueprint that they've known for a long while.

3 of Arsenal's goals were of our own making anyway - Gomes at the Corner, the Hutton giveaway, and The switch-off that allowed Nasri to get through.

Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the Camels back for a lot of Gooners - Wenger is far too stubborn and I'm sure Arsenal have the money to spend £10-15mil on a quality DM at the peak of his career, and find a rugged CB. He wants to win with the kids, but they just don't have the maturity to close games out.

Told you there was fight in the Spurs team, you just needed a manager with more charisma than a pear.

Tymoshchuk, ex-captain for Shaktar Donetsk and Zenit is quality but is probably too old. Diarra from Real? Again too old for Wenger more than likely.

It is clear he was willing to spend £10-15M on a quality midfielder to complement Cesc in the summer... those being Barry and Alonso so I'm sure you will look to address that area. Both he thought were a little too high in valuation though for him.

2 names just sprung to mind.. Toulalan and Makoun, both who are at Lyon. I wouldn't think they'd cost as much as the Barry or Xabi.

Also there is Toure's brother, Yaya.

I think the 3 I mentiomned above are perfect and are realistic targets looking at Wenger's transfer history and where he obtains players. All 3 are 25 years old I'm pretty sure so are hitting their prime now if not in a year or two.

Pears are lovely coop.

Im not saying pears arent lovely, im sure they are for a man who likes fruit...they're soft and soggy though..if you wanted to win a fight and someone said "here's your choice, you can hit him with this wet soggy pear, or hit him with this hard as f@ck apple" which would you choose? You wouldnt choose Juande Ramos.

Jérémie Aliadière?

No arsenal will not winning the league again under Wenger, but their is always the F.A cup and maybe the CL.

Change the striker and GK. Adebayor misses far too many, and Almunia is one of the weak keepers around. Sure CM and CB are problems for you. But if Eduardo replaces Adebayor and Fabianki replaces Almunia, you would be doing far better.

Adebayor is the least of Arsenal's problems. No-one used to say Henry missed too many, so why pick on him?

That reminds me of the days when Spurs fans used to moan about the lack of pace beteen Berbatov & Keane. You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

Almunia hasn't had a bad game for a long while prior to yesterday, but he's not going to win Arsenal matches like Mad Jens used too. He's an average GK, and again, Arsenal could easily push the boat out and Spend £10-15mil on a quality mid-20's GK that will give them 10 years of good service.

The main problems with Arsenal is the lack of adaptability (Adebayor & Bendtner are a step in the right direction to playing a more varied way) and a lack of experience. Both are down to Wenger and his continuing stubbornness.

zizoued wrote:Change the striker and GK. Adebayor misses far too many, and Almunia is one of the weak keepers around. Sure CM and CB are problems for you. But if Eduardo replaces Adebayor and Fabianki replaces Almunia, you would be doing far better.

Yes, if a smallish, moderately pacey striker who has ok technique and good finishing ability were to replace a 6ft 4 powerhouse Olympic Sprinter with skill and creativity who can score 20 league goals a season and can do the business against any oppo home or away then they'd be much better off


TS - like many football pundits comes so close to having Wenger's number but falls at the final hurdle by referring to "stubborness" rather than "cowardice".

Its not because he believes he can or should win with kids.

Its because if he added a 26-30 YO CB and DM to that youthful pace flair and creativity he would have no ready made excuse for failure - and, unlike Fergie, Mourinho, Scolari and Benitez he is terrified of giving everything in case he should come up short.

Its about time people told it like it is with wenger.

I like the way that when he is gracious in victory (like that's difficult) all his fans say that he is far more thoughtful and sophisticated than his rivals yet when things go wrong for him like last night he turns into the world's most bittter man.


"We were at least two levels higher" - well you do tend to be when you get every 50/50 decision going your way.

I rate Eduardo higher than Adebayor. You don't need to be a sprinter to be the most lethal striker (Refer Ruud for best example), Adebayor misses easiet chances and some sitters. Even in the game against spurs, he could have scored two more goals at the LEAST.

Ade makes up for his less lethalness by his work rate. If you play a Horseface type of striker, he really has to come up with the goals, because he offers little else. All teammates have to work harder if you have -another statue- Huntelaar in the team. You're playing with 10 1/2 man with a slow poacher, while when playing with an Ade type you play with 11 1/2.

depends on what your team needs which kind to pick best

You would rather have a profligate striker who makes his chances than a clinical striker who doesn't.

I'm pretty sure Eduardo will be the reason for any trophy that Arsenal might win. Adebayor is simply wasteful, and some of his passes that he supposedly "Creates" are badly hit, and needs good control. He also needs "sitters" to score against big teams. He also misses equal number of sitters which Eduardo can easily finish.

Adebayor's finishing is inconsistent, but he does undoubtedly cause problems for a defence through his physical attributes and directly/indirectly assists quite a few goals.

A clinical striker might take more of the chances Adebayor misses, but might not have the physical attributes to get those chances in the first place...

I really don't think it's the front two that's the problem. Adebayor-Van Persie is capable of being one of the best combos in the league (even europe). Eduardo coming back will add another option and strengthen this area, but switching him for Adebayor yesterday would not have won the game, as it wouldn't have stopped you shipping 4 goals!

Agree debaser. don't think our attack is the problem.

On who to play like I said depends on the match for me. I would always play RVP, just for his set pieces. Think both Eduardo & Ade can partner him.

It's quite simply as far as i see it.
Arsenal lack experience and that's it.
No matter how good they play, or who will play in attack, the way it goes, regardless how much they score, they will always let in more than they should.
And this will happen again this season so i don't think they will win something significant.

debaser wrote:A clinical striker might take more of the chances Adebayor misses, but might not have the physical attributes to get those chances in the first place...

Think Arsenal V Juve in the CL

Henry was scoring a goal every 7.5 shots or so in CL and Trez was doing a goal every 3 or so.

Trez didn't thave a sniff over the 2 legs and Henry scored at Highbury.


It always made me laugh when twats like David Mellor were saying that Chelsea would be better with owen than Drogba (in the 1st season with 4-5-1) 'cos he is more clinical

Adebayor is awesome. I don't get when people keep mentioning all these sitters he keeps missing, how comes other people are not missing these sitters? If they're not why was Adebayor 3rd highest scorer in the league last year. Obviously they're missing or not getting them, and if they're not and he is that says something. RVP is talented more talented, but if i had to have one of the two it would be Adebayor by a mile.

L.r.d wrote:Adebayor is awesome. I don't get when people keep mentioning all these sitters he keeps missing, how comes other people are not missing these sitters? If they're not why was Adebayor 3rd highest scorer in the league last year. Obviously they're missing or not getting them, and if they're not and he is that says something. RVP is talented more talented, but if i had to have one of the two it would be Adebayor by a mile.

I dont know by a mile because i like RVPs style of play but i would choose him to. allthough i dont like his personality that much.

Maybe defence is the problem, but I have no doubt that Eduardo suits Arsenal style better, and would be lethal. If that doesn't work, Adebayor should be the plan XYZ.

TBH the Spurs defender forced him to drag that shot wide last night - did just enough.

Yeah and some Spurs fan magically flexed him to miss that header. Disgraceful miss, and shameful for a striker. A bad Excuse for a striker.

Thinking about it, Villa or even Zaki would be better suited to Arsenal, just as much as Eduardo if not more. Adebayor is more of Bolton/Wigan style player.

zizoued wrote:Maybe defence is the problem, but I have no doubt that Eduardo suits Arsenal style better, and would be lethal. If that doesn't work, Adebayor should be the plan XYZ.

Adebayor is the only arsenal striker I would fear. RVP isn't consistent enough to worry about

Adebayor is one of arsenal's greatest assets so it's truly bizarre you pick him out as a weakness

You have denilson in the starting 11, the lack of strength throughout the midfield, the lack of leadership, the lack of resolve, the prudent manager and yet you pick the man who is along with fabregas their standout performer

Pierre Littbarski wrote:TBH the Spurs defender forced him to drag that shot wide last night - did just enough.

That was Assou-Ekotto; thought he was our best player on the night. He pocketed Walcott.

zizoued wrote:Thinking about it, Villa or even Zaki would be better suited to Arsenal, just as much as Eduardo if not more. Adebayor is more of Bolton/Wigan style player.