2008/09: Arsenal vs Chelsea vs Liverpool vs Man Utd

Here is a preview:

LIVERPOOL 2 - 1 MANCHESTER UNITED = no Gerrard and Torres starting

LIVERPOOL 0 - 0 STOKE CITY = Gerrard and Torres starting

CHELSEA 0 - 1 LIVERPOOL = no Torres

WIGAN ATHLETIC 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL = Gerrard and Torres starting

i will write the rest later.

In the meantime, can you tell me what Man Utd squad players you would swap with liverpool ones?

Evans or Agger?

O'Shea/Fabio or Dossena/Insua?

Anderson or Lucas?

Nani or Babel?

etc.......

who are the Manchester United squad players? If I say Tevez will you tell me that Tevez is not a squad player?

Glentuple wrote:who are the Manchester United squad players? If I say Tevez will you tell me that Tevez is not a squad player?

what do u think our best XI is?

Tevez or Keane?

I'd take Tevez, Berbatov or Rooney ahead of any of our fringe strikers

I'd take Carrick, Scholes, Giggs and possibly Fletcher ahead of Lucas

I'd take Nani ahead of El Zhar

I'd take Anderson and Fletcher ahead of Plessis or Spearing

I'd take Rafu, Neville, O'Shea and Evans ahead of Degen

Glentuple wrote:I'd take Tevez, Berbatov or Rooney ahead of any of our fringe strikers

I'd take Carrick, Scholes, Giggs and possibly Fletcher ahead of Lucas

I'd take Nani ahead of El Zhar

I'd take Anderson and Fletcher ahead of Plessis or Spearing

I'd take Rafu, Neville, O'Shea and Evans ahead of Degen

i hope you are just pretending to be stupid

Here is a preview of my reply

Dark Knight wrote:

LIVERPOOL 2 - 1 MANCHESTER UNITED = no Gerrard and Torres starting

LIVERPOOL 0 - 0 STOKE CITY = Gerrard and Torres starting

yep, the Stoke game was the next league game after the United win that Gerrard and Torres were injured for. If you would like to red my previous post I cited that Torres and Gerrard started few games together and many of these games one or both were returning from injury. Also this was a game where Keane missed a hatful of chances and Gerrard had a good goal disallowed.

Dark Knight wrote:CHELSEA 0 - 1 LIVERPOOL = no Torres

WIGAN ATHLETIC 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL = Gerrard and Torres starting

another game where Torres and Gerrard were returning from injury. Is this just going to be a list of games that shows that Liverpool are better without Gerrard and Torres? I'm sure I could find a bunch of games that we lost or drew when they weren't playing.

Dark Knight wrote:

Glentuple wrote:I'd take Tevez, Berbatov or Rooney ahead of any of our fringe strikers

I'd take Carrick, Scholes, Giggs and possibly Fletcher ahead of Lucas

I'd take Nani ahead of El Zhar

I'd take Anderson and Fletcher ahead of Plessis or Spearing

I'd take Rafu, Neville, O'Shea and Evans ahead of Degen

i hope you are just pretending to be stupid

I think it's you who appear stupid.

Let me make it even easier for you.

Whichever of the 3 strikers I have listed you consider to be a fringe player, that's who I'd take. Same with the midfielders and defenders. I won't say, I'll take Giggs because you'll say he's not a fringe player, in which case I'll take Scholes, you'll say he's not a fringe player, and so on.

This is why I asked you who your fringe players were, a question you avoided.

if this is going to be another Rafa shouldn't have signed Keane/Rafa shouldn't have sold Keane, Rafa should have signed dos Santos and Robinho then can we just leave it? I've seen that one it's not funny the 2nd time.

Just to pre-empt any more of Batman's nonsence and perhaps save him wasting too much time looking for pictures and colouring in his text, I looked at the games we dropped points in this season with regard to my point that Gerrard and Torres had played few games together, and many of those that they did start together in one or both were unfit.

Aston Villa 0-0 Liverpool
Gerrard injured
Torres off injured after 30

Liverpool 0-0 Stoke
Gerrard and Torres first game back from injury
Gerrard goal disallowed incorrectly

Tottenham 2-1 Liverpool
Torres injured

Liverpool 0-0 Fulham
Gerrard injured
Torres first game back from injury

Liverpool 0-0 West Ham
Torres injured

Liverpool 2-2 Hull
Torres injured

Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool
Torres injured

Stoke 0-0 Liverpool
Torres returning from injury (on the bench)

Liverpool 1-1 Everton
Torres returning from injury (subbed)

Wigan 1-1 Liverpool
Torres returning from injury (subbed)
Gerrard jaded (subbed)

Liverpool 1-1 Man City
Gerrard injured

Middlesborough 2-0 Liverpool
Torres injured
Arbeloa injured (as were Degen, Agger and Darby, Skrtel played rightback)

Liverpool 4-4 Arsenal
Gerrard injured

It's quite shocking really, I'm sure Arsenal and Chelsea fans could tell a similar story with injuries to Drogba, Aliadebeyor, Fabregas and Essien.

Yesterday Glenn makes the comment that Anderson was subbed because he was playing poorly. Glenn does not rate Anderson.

Batman and Lrd point out to Glenn that Anderson has just come back from injury and started the last 3 games for Man Utd. Anderson was subbed because he was tired.

Glenn disagrees.

So why doesn't Glenn write:

Torres or Gerrard (subbed for playing poorly)

Hypocrite?

what has that got to do with anything you fool?

I was saying that Torres and Gerrard not being fit and playing together contributed to our season, you disputed this but it turns out that every game we've dropped points in one or the other or both have been injured/unfit. How Anderson comes into this I don't know, it's a completely separate discussion. Yes in the Everton game Torres was awful, he hardly moved, it doesn't really affect the point. I think you've lost and are trying to steer the discussion down a sidestreet. I accept your forfeit.

Batman's cracking up!

I think you're right Lewis, if that was his best effort. Not even any pictures or coloured font this time

i got the flu today

i will reply to your previous post after i have had something to eat

Part 1

Glentuple wrote:
The luxury that United have had this season, is that the size of their squad and few long term injuries to key players have allowed them to continue momentum, if not performing well and grinding out results.

Manchester United have had problems at full back and missed Ronaldo for the first couple of games, but the strength in depth they have is frightening.

Liverpool/Rafa's best XI



Which Liverpool squad players would you swap with the Man Utd squad players?

Cavalieri v Foster

Itandje v Kuszczak

Degen v Neville

Darby v O'Shea

Hyypia v Brown

Agger v Evans

Insua v Fabio

Lucas v Fletcher

Plessis v Gibson

Spearing v Possebon

Dossena v Tosic*

Pennant* v Hargreaves

El Zhar v Park

Benayoun v Scholes

Babel v Nani

Nemeth* v Welbeck

Keane* v Tevez

Ngog v Macheda

*Left or joined the club in Jan.

I have included Keane and Pennant because they at Liverpool for the first half of the season. It was Rafa's choice to let them go and weaken the squad.

why those particular match ups?

United's squad has the most depth.

Are you really going to argue that it doesn't?

It's all or nothing Batman, we're not playing Top Trumps.

Glentuple wrote:why those particular match ups?

United's squad has the most depth.

Are you really going to argue that it doesn't?

It's all or nothing Batman, we're not playing Top Trumps.

Whats wrong with the match ups?

you said:

"the strength in depth they have is frightening."

I am just asking you a simple question, which Liverpool squad players would you swap with the Man Utd squad players?

all of them? has Rafa made any good signings?

Im trying to find out how good you think our squad is because you often ridicule our players.

too old
past it
should retire
shit
not good enough
waste of money
hype
etc......

Why are you avoiding answering my question?

Why have you just deleted your last post?

O'Shea is not first choice backup at RB, CB or LB. But because of injuries O'Shea has played a lot of games at RB this season. This is why i put:

Darby v O'Shea

If you want then we can do this:

Darby v Eckersley
Kelly v O'Shea

Hargreaves has been injured for most of the season. Liverpool have not got an experienced CM player to compare with Hargreaves. Gerrard does play CM for Liverpool but i put him as AM/SS player in your best XI.

I needed a player to put against Pennant. I picked Hargreaves because he has played RM for Man Utd and England. SAF played Hargreaves RM in the Champions League final. Hargreaves is a really good crosser of the ball.

I forgot about Manucho. So you can make some more changes:

Ngog v Manucho

Macheda v one of the top strikers Rafa has signed for the reserves?

the striker from Brazil?

or

the striker from Barca?

or

the tall dutch striker?

or

some local lad?

ANSWER ME!

Batman is pwning Glen

@ Batmobile

Sorry to break up the little love fest you have with Glenn however I am interested to know why you are comparing David N'Keane with Macheda ?

Surely Glenn's point is comparing United's list of strikers

ie Tevez, Rooney, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Manucho, Macheda, Wellbeck, Campbell

Value - Approx 85-90 Million (105-110million using Tevez's real value)
to

Liverpool's

Torres, Ngog, Nemeth, Voronin, Kuyt and Babel (who isn't a striker and never plays as one).

Value (45 million)

To further explain the point to you, take torres out of our team regularly and what happens ?

Take Rooney out of your team and what happens ?


With the massive cost differences between the values of the squad I think you know what we are talking about

Do you know Batman

i have read your post cotr

but i have not got the time to reply to it yet so i hope you don't change your mind about it and delete it.

i think glenn has a love fest with me. he knows my posting style and habbits, ask Kas if you don't believe me. he makes a batman account then posts about how good Anderson is.

Dark Knight wrote:i have read your post cotr

but i have not got the time to reply to it yet so i hope you don't change your mind about it and delete it.

better hurry you are going to miss the start!

Rosicky wrote:

Dark Knight wrote:i have read your post cotr

but i have not got the time to reply to it yet so i hope you don't change your mind about it and delete it.

better hurry you are going to miss the start!

you might be surprised to know that i have only been to the cinema once this year

i don't really watch films, don't have time

thats why a rarely post in the films review topic or when someone creates a post of the best films, etc......

i have read your post cotr

but i have not got the time to reply to it yet so i hope you don't change your mind about it and delete it.

Well you have my word Batman. The post remains

i think glenn has a love fest with me. he knows my posting style and habbits, ask Kas if you don't believe me. he makes a batman account then posts about how good Anderson is.

I think you like teasing him. You purposely let yourself post very silly things in the hope that Glenn will respond to you. I actually think you like him making fun of you. It is a strange way to get your kicks but whatever keeps Batman happy

Am I right Batman

Dark Knight wrote:

Rosicky wrote:

Dark Knight wrote:i have read your post cotr

but i have not got the time to reply to it yet so i hope you don't change your mind about it and delete it.

better hurry you are going to miss the start!

you might be surprised to know that i have only been to the cinema once this year

i don't really watch films, don't have time

thats why a rarely post in the films review topic or when someone creates a post of the best films, etc......

COTR wrote:@ Batmobile

Sorry to break up the little love fest you have with Glenn however I am interested to know why you are comparing David N'Keane with Macheda ?

Surely Glenn's point is comparing United's list of strikers

ie Tevez, Rooney, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Manucho, Macheda, Wellbeck, Campbell

Value - Approx 85-90 Million (105-110million using Tevez's real value)
to

Liverpool's

Torres, Ngog, Nemeth, Voronin, Kuyt and Babel (who isn't a striker and never plays as one).

Value (45 million)

To further explain the point to you, take torres out of our team regularly and what happens ?

Take Rooney out of your team and what happens ?


With the massive cost differences between the values of the squad I think you know what we are talking about

Do you know Batman

exactly. And not just the strikers, if you compare the value and quality of the players not in the Manchester United first XI it's extraordinary. Their fringe players cost more than our first team!

Glentuple wrote:Their fringe players cost more than our first team!

Well, they do buy three 20 million pound players every year...

COTR wrote:@ Batmobile

Sorry to break up the little love fest you have with Glenn however I am interested to know why you are comparing David N'Keane with Macheda ?

Surely Glenn's point is comparing United's list of strikers

ie Tevez, Rooney, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Manucho, Macheda, Wellbeck, Campbell

Value - Approx 85-90 Million (105-110million using Tevez's real value)
to

Liverpool's

Torres, Ngog, Nemeth, Voronin, Kuyt and Babel (who isn't a striker and never plays as one).

Value (45 million)

To further explain the point to you, take torres out of our team regularly and what happens ?

Take Rooney out of your team and what happens ?


With the massive cost differences between the values of the squad I think you know what we are talking about

Do you know Batman

You say Babel isn't a striker and Ronaldo is a striker

Berbatov - £30m
Rooney - £26m
Tevez £10m - Loan for 2 season
Wellbeck + Campbell - youth system
Manucho + Macheda - less than £1m
£67m Approx

Can you tell me what is Tevez real value, and how you worked it out?

Torres - £27m
Ngog - £1m
Nemeth - ?
Pacheco - ?
Flora - ?
Voronin - free
Kuyt - £10m
Babel £11.5m
Keane £20m
£69.5m Approx

Rafa did have the money to sign Keane in the summer

but this debate is not about money, its about the management.

if 4-2-3-1 is your best system then why not spend big on a back-up striker for Torres. cover your ass if Torres gets injured

instead you sign Keane, this suggest you are going to play 4-4-2

Keane + Torres

if Torres is injured then your back-up is

Keane + Kuyt

once again Glenn deletes his last post, but why?

I just don't know where you're going with this Batman and if it's worth me wasting my time trying to school you when you never learn.

You haven't offered much by way of an opinion just a list of banal questions, you seemed to be disputing my point that United have greater strength in depth but you haven't committed yourself particularly.

Tot up a guestimate of the fees for the fringe players you've listed, you'll find that Manchester United's come to double that of Liverpool's. I think that makes my point without anymore messing around.

Glentuple wrote:I just don't know where you're going with this Batman and if it's worth me wasting my time trying to school you when you never learn.

You haven't offered much by way of an opinion just a list of banal questions, you seemed to be disputing my point that United have greater strength in depth but you haven't committed yourself particularly.

Tot up a guestimate of the fees for the fringe players you've listed, you'll find that Manchester United's come to double that of Liverpool's. I think that makes my point without anymore messing around.

Dark Knight wrote:

You say Babel isn't a striker and Ronaldo is a striker

Berbatov - £30m
Rooney - £26m
Tevez £10m - Loan for 2 season
Wellbeck + Campbell - youth system
Manucho + Macheda - less than £1m
£67m Approx

Can you tell me what is Tevez real value, and how you worked it out?

Torres - £27m
Ngog - £1m
Nemeth - ?
Pacheco - ?
Flora - ?
Voronin - free
Kuyt - £10m
Babel £11.5m
Keane £20m
£69.5m Approx

Rafa did have the money to sign Keane in the summer

but this debate is not about money, its about the management.

if 4-2-3-1 is your best system then why not spend big on a back-up striker for Torres. cover your ass if Torres gets injured

instead you sign Keane, this suggest you are going to play 4-4-2

Keane + Torres

if Torres is injured then your back-up is

Keane + Kuyt

Torres 27 Million

Batman you are starting to annoy me now with you silly little games. Why have you omitted Ronaldo then included Babel. If you watch any of your games you will find out that more often than not in big games fergie ends up with ronaldo up front.

Facts Batman, Facts

If you want evidence of Tevez's cost then we only have to look at a report on the main BBC page today. I find it hard to believe you have not read it but here is part of it just to make sure you know what it says. The title of the report is 'Sweaty Drunk reveals fears over Tevez' -

An agreed price - believed to be about £30m - needs to be paid at the end of the season for United to seal Tevez's registration.

Now this is by no means a totally accurate figure but I think we can both agree that it won't be far off whoever does sign him.

Not many other clubs have to power to essentially write off £10 million on a loan fee as United have done.

Now that is sorted ....... on to your other points


Rafa failed with the Keane signature. I don't think any of us are disputing that. Where you are once again going wrong is you are not thinking about the timescales both managers have been in charge to be able to build the right attack. The drunk has been able to build his attack around the success stories of rooney and ronaldo who have been at the clubs for the years. He has had many striking failures but with a core of rooney and ronaldo he has been able to add more top class strikers to it in Berbatov and Tevez (Value £60 million). Now these two players may not be the top performers that their value suggests but over the course of the season if you have replacements valued at £60 million to sit on the bench or interchange with the regular starters then it is a massive advantage.

This is pretty simple stuff so I hope you are following Batman

With regards to Liverpool, this is only the second season where Bentiez has been able to compete on even a remotely level scale with United and Chelsea. He had one success story in Torres who along with Gerrard he is trying to build an attack around. Where Fergie has had years to build a squad around Rooney and Ronaldo, Rafa has had one year to supplement Torres. Now you are calling this poor management, but give Rafa the same years to build around gerrard and torres that the drunk has had to build around rooney and ronaldo and I can guarantee you that Batman will not be saying the same things. Keane was a massive mistake, however he rightly rectified that quickly and got most of the money back. Lesser managers would have played it safe and kept Keane on the bench, eating away at the confidence of the team. This = good management Batman

Now hopefully this is enough to settle your mind on this issue. It should be but I don't think you will be giving up so easily