HomeWhich is exactly my point that it was a case of Man Utd overrating Barcelona and what they could do. For me it wasn't that much a case of getting it done because they way Man Utd played wasn't even that smart.Calidad wrote:That's what suprised me as well Kas. I thought Barca were there for the taking, and actually thought they could be in for a hammering.
+18
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The best team and best player in the world?
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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- Post n°61
Re: The best team and best player in the world?
by Super Progress Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:25 pm
Batman- Number of posts : 9071
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Were the Barca players giving it 100% in the league? i doubt it
In the Champions League it was a different story.
The season before we went to the semis and failed, SAF just wanted to make sure this didn't happen again.
If we played with different tactics, e.g like in the final against Chelsea) then we still would have won because last season....
Man Utd > everyone
In the Champions League it was a different story.
The season before we went to the semis and failed, SAF just wanted to make sure this didn't happen again.
If we played with different tactics, e.g like in the final against Chelsea) then we still would have won because last season....
Man Utd > everyone
Machiavel- Number of posts : 21355
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Super Madrid wrote:Which is exactly my point that it was a case of Man Utd overrating Barcelona and what they could do. For me it wasn't that much a case of getting it done because they way Man Utd played wasn't even that smart.Calidad wrote:That's what suprised me as well Kas. I thought Barca were there for the taking, and actually thought they could be in for a hammering.
Like I’ve said Manchester United’s approach was pragmatic – it was a risk, just like going gung-ho would have been. It wasn’t the fact they overrated Barcelona but showed respect – the likes of Messi, Eto’o and Xavi would punish you if you allow them to. Plus the ultimate aim was to get to the final sure it would have been nice to via a comprehensive thrashing of Barcelona but it wasn’t to be.
Last edited by Vierzehn on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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L-r d wrote:I don't care how we played. Destroyed Porto and they get a lucky last minute goal after some dissalowed joke decision against Man Utd
Porto destroyed you in the fisrt leg and it should've been more than 2-1. You only played well for the first half at OT, and after that you just sat back and let Porto have the ball. Even if the goal is allowed, it would've still gone to extra time, with Porto having the momentum.
and a few other years where the cl should have been won.
Such as? i'm sure lots of other teams will also claim they should've won the CL in certain seasons.
So if playing that way guaranteed a win then so be it. 1-0 and a missed pen and another clear pen denied vs what? Barca barely had a fucking chance.
Do you get points for missed penalties now?
Ferdinand should've been sent off at the Nou Camp and it should've been a penalty.
They are great this year and i hope we get them in the semi final again so there can be two games.
that's assuming you get past inter.
L r dd- Number of posts : 12451
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BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:L-r d wrote:I don't care how we played. Destroyed Porto and they get a lucky last minute goal after some dissalowed joke decision against Man Utd
Porto destroyed you in the fisrt leg and it should've been more than 2-1. You only played well for the first half at OT, and after that you just sat back and let Porto have the ball. Even if the goal is allowed, it would've still gone to extra time, with Porto having the momentum.
This is nonsense. We went 0-1 up in Portugal and then got caught out as the team got slack. 2-1 was a fair reflection. If it were allowed 2-0 is a lot different from 1-0 and any nerves are not there. That goal they scored probably never would have happenend. And extra time at old trafford i don't think Porto would have been favourites somehow. The team sat back because 1-0 was enough at that point
and a few other years where the cl should have been won.
Such as? i'm sure lots of other teams will also claim they should've won the CL in certain seasons.
Yeah and we're one of them.
So if playing that way guaranteed a win then so be it. 1-0 and a missed pen and another clear pen denied vs what? Barca barely had a fucking chance.
Do you get points for missed penalties now?
Ferdinand should've been sent off at the Nou Camp and it should've been a penalty.
a missed penalty is a great chance than any
They are great this year and i hope we get them in the semi final again so there can be two games.
that's assuming you get past inter.
ya dont say
Pierre Littbarski- Number of posts : 12424
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- Post n°66
Re: The best team and best player in the world?
by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:38 pm
Super Madrid - they played pussy football in teh 4 games v Roma and Barca leading up to the final.
Andy Townsend said it was great to see an attacking side reach the final
They have little creativity in their team so just sit back and let the pace of ronaldo rape the opposition on the counter.
Andy Townsend said it was great to see an attacking side reach the final
They have little creativity in their team so just sit back and let the pace of ronaldo rape the opposition on the counter.
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Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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- Post n°68
Re: The best team and best player in the world?
by Super Progress Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:49 pm
Must say I disagree about the creativity part there. While it is true Man Utd played they played a style that Liverpool is often heckled for, they do have creative players like Scholes or Rooney.Pierre Littbarski wrote:Super Madrid - they played pussy football in teh 4 games v Roma and Barca leading up to the final.
Andy Townsend said it was great to see an attacking side reach the final
They have little creativity in their team so just sit back and let the pace of ronaldo rape the opposition on the counter.
Anyway I tried to get this back on point but a couple Man Utd fans wouldn't let it go. I was simply saying that if Man Utd play a defensive style again then I think Barca would have problems. Im quite sure Inter,Juve,Liverpool would give them as many problems. In fact Juve with Sissoko might really give trouble even though they lack the pace.
Guest- Guest
Marquez,Zambo and Abidal were shit that year
Milito was playing on glass knees.
Yaya was playing with a big injury since January
Deco again shit
Messi was just returning from injury.
we were their for the taking and they couldn't and choose not to take us to the sword, don't get me wrong i'm happy they played like pussies, at least we were able to leave the field with our head held high.
Milito was playing on glass knees.
Yaya was playing with a big injury since January
Deco again shit
Messi was just returning from injury.
we were their for the taking and they couldn't and choose not to take us to the sword, don't get me wrong i'm happy they played like pussies, at least we were able to leave the field with our head held high.
Hem fet un..- Number of posts : 801
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To get back on track then I agree that the teams we should fear most are Inter, Man Utd, Juve and Liverpool.
They all have the physique and tactical discipline to just absorb attack after attack and kills us on the counter. Despite our great football this season, other teams still get chances against us and with strikers like Berbatov, Torres, Rooney, Ibra, Armauri etc then they would probably grab at least a goal or two over two games.
But first we have to get past Lyon...
They all have the physique and tactical discipline to just absorb attack after attack and kills us on the counter. Despite our great football this season, other teams still get chances against us and with strikers like Berbatov, Torres, Rooney, Ibra, Armauri etc then they would probably grab at least a goal or two over two games.
But first we have to get past Lyon...
TITO- Number of posts : 3155
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I dont fear Inter or Juve, at least not yet. If we just maintain the play that we have now, i dont see a reason to be afraid of those teams.
Between MU and Liverpool, i think Liverpool are more dangerous.
But as u say, we first must past Lyon.
p.s. we can match now any other teams physique this year.
Between MU and Liverpool, i think Liverpool are more dangerous.
But as u say, we first must past Lyon.
p.s. we can match now any other teams physique this year.
Machiavel- Number of posts : 21355
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Messiah wrote:
we were their for the taking and they couldn't and choose not to take us to the sword, don't get me wrong i'm happy they played like pussies, at least we were able to leave the field with our head held high.
So your saying if Manchester United played a more open and expansive game, come out gung-ho .. Barcelona would have been ripped to shreds, I think you are underestimating your team. Barcelona may have had problems back then but were still a good team and not one to be doubted whatever people were saying.
TITO- Number of posts : 3155
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We were a good team, but we didn't played good, that's the difference. Those days any team could have beat us.
That's why we are saying that if MU opened their game and attacked us, probably they would have won quite easily.
That's why we are saying that if MU opened their game and attacked us, probably they would have won quite easily.
Guest- Guest
the team i fear the most is juve.
1) Chiellini is a beast and eto'o will find it hard to get in behind him
2) Buffon, after eto'o does find some space, he will have one of the best GK ever to beat, and has much as i love it, we all know he isn't the most clinical of strikers.
3) Over own philosophy will work against us, we will go out their and try to attack them, and leave our defense exposed and i can see someone like trez,del piero, getting 2 chances and taking them both.
after that its
liverpool, they will prodly play shit on a stick football and gerrard and that conte torres who always seems to score against us will get them the goals they need.
Man utd, great balance in their team, they could get 3 pass us and then just shout up shop.
outside of these three i would feel comfortable taking on everyone.It will be interesting to see how pep handles the K.O stages, the only from of K.O competitionhe has ever been in is with barca B
1) Chiellini is a beast and eto'o will find it hard to get in behind him
2) Buffon, after eto'o does find some space, he will have one of the best GK ever to beat, and has much as i love it, we all know he isn't the most clinical of strikers.
3) Over own philosophy will work against us, we will go out their and try to attack them, and leave our defense exposed and i can see someone like trez,del piero, getting 2 chances and taking them both.
after that its
liverpool, they will prodly play shit on a stick football and gerrard and that conte torres who always seems to score against us will get them the goals they need.
Man utd, great balance in their team, they could get 3 pass us and then just shout up shop.
outside of these three i would feel comfortable taking on everyone.It will be interesting to see how pep handles the K.O stages, the only from of K.O competitionhe has ever been in is with barca B
toon h- Number of posts : 8715
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sure nobody can ever feel their team will sweep all others aside, but the way things are at the moment, Barcelona must be favourites for any tie with whoever in the CL. Even if the likes of Man U or Inter may be difficult to beat, they must also wonder whether they could contain us.
That being said, I much rather lose trying to play attacking football than lose trying to play negative football. I think history shows that attacking or creative football wins at least as many times as negative football. And even if we won't win anything this season, I have greatly enjoyed the games we have played, watching my team for many hours proudly, and since nobody can guarantee to win trophies at the end of it, this is surely the best way to play the game.
That being said, I much rather lose trying to play attacking football than lose trying to play negative football. I think history shows that attacking or creative football wins at least as many times as negative football. And even if we won't win anything this season, I have greatly enjoyed the games we have played, watching my team for many hours proudly, and since nobody can guarantee to win trophies at the end of it, this is surely the best way to play the game.
Super Progress- Number of posts : 15429
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- Post n°76
Re: The best team and best player in the world?
by Super Progress Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:08 pm
Yeah overall that might be true but in recent times all winners have been pragmatics. That is why Cl football has become so boring because teams feel they have to play defensive in order to win. Of course this trend is only possible to chance by winning playing more creative football.toon h wrote:sure nobody can ever feel their team will sweep all others aside, but the way things are at the moment, Barcelona must be favourites for any tie with whoever in the CL. Even if the likes of Man U or Inter may be difficult to beat, they must also wonder whether they could contain us.
That being said, I much rather lose trying to play attacking football than lose trying to play negative football. I think history shows that attacking or creative football wins at least as many times as negative football. And even if we won't win anything this season, I have greatly enjoyed the games we have played, watching my team for many hours proudly, and since nobody can guarantee to win trophies at the end of it, this is surely the best way to play the game.
Machiavel- Number of posts : 21355
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@ Super Madrid
I think your over exaggerating, being cautious (for example) at times does not necessarily mean being defensive also don’t forget other factors like key personals may be absent (due to suspension or injury) you’ve got to work with what you have. In the last 10 years I don’t think there has been a completely defensively oriented side that has won the Competition.
I think your over exaggerating, being cautious (for example) at times does not necessarily mean being defensive also don’t forget other factors like key personals may be absent (due to suspension or injury) you’ve got to work with what you have. In the last 10 years I don’t think there has been a completely defensively oriented side that has won the Competition.
Guest- Guest
toon h wrote:sure nobody can ever feel their team will sweep all others aside, but the way things are at the moment, Barcelona must be favourites for any tie with whoever in the CL. Even if the likes of Man U or Inter may be difficult to beat, they must also wonder whether they could contain us.
That being said, I much rather lose trying to play attacking football than lose trying to play negative football. I think history shows that attacking or creative football wins at least as many times as negative football. And even if we won't win anything this season, I have greatly enjoyed the games we have played, watching my team for many hours proudly, and since nobody can guarantee to win trophies at the end of it, this is surely the best way to play the game.
Calidad- Number of posts : 7996
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Messiah wrote:the team i fear the most is juve.
1) Chiellini is a beast and eto'o will find it hard to get in behind him
2) Buffon, after eto'o does find some space, he will have one of the best GK ever to beat, and has much as i love it, we all know he isn't the most clinical of strikers.
3) Over own philosophy will work against us, we will go out their and try to attack them, and leave our defense exposed and i can see someone like trez,del piero, getting 2 chances and taking them both.
after that its
liverpool, they will prodly play shit on a stick football and gerrard and that conte torres who always seems to score against us will get them the goals they need.
Man utd, great balance in their team, they could get 3 pass us and then just shout up shop.
outside of these three i would feel comfortable taking on everyone.It will be interesting to see how pep handles the K.O stages, the only from of K.O competitionhe has ever been in is with barca B
Utd are a wonderfully balanced team. Two WC CB's, a very good if not outstanding MF, and great options upfront. Evra is also a very fine FB, though I'd still question his final ball.
They're never going to be an easy side to beat, and will always create something. And while Juve don't quite have the same star names, I'd also put them in this category. Inter and Chelsea also, though both have suprisingly looked vulnerable at times this season. Liverpool go without saying really.
I still think if Barca play to their potential, they are currently better than any other side in Europe atm. Like Messiah said, with the likes of Abidal, Alves, Busquets, Keita and Toure, I shouldn't think getting outmuscled should be a problem this season either. Like with Gerrard, Ronaldo, Ibra, Benzema etc - I think Barca will need Messi at the top of his game to win it though.
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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- Post n°80
Re: The best team and best player in the world?
by BoBo Vieri 32 Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:57 pm
L-r d wrote:
This is nonsense. We went 0-1 up in Portugal and then got caught out as the team got slack. 2-1 was a fair reflection. If it were allowed 2-0 is a lot different from 1-0 and any nerves are not there. That goal they scored probably never would have happenend. And extra time at old trafford i don't think Porto would have been favourites somehow. The team sat back because 1-0 was enough at that point
Yes you got an early goal, and then Porto attacked you for the rest of the match. You barely created anything after that!
If it were 2-0, Porto would still need only 1 goal (though in this case it was to keep the tie alive rather than to win) but still the aim for them is to get 1 goal so it wouldn't have killed them off. In terms of nerves, they would still be there since 1 goal would still change the game. Extra time and it's in Porto's favour because they have the momentum. United would be deflated having conceded a late goal like that. And obviously, it's clear that sitting back was the wrong option.
yeh and it means fuck all.Yeah and we're one of them.
You still didn't answer my question about which year you though should've won it.
a missed penalty is a great chance than any
This doesn't make sense Lrd.
ya dont say
L r dd- Number of posts : 12451
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A penalty is as good a chance as any. Can you understand that?
Man Utd sat back because they were winning. If it went to extra time obviously they'd go for it again, and being at home im sure against an inferior team at old trafford they'd be favourites somehow. Maybe you'd disagree due to this 'momentum' of stealing a late goal from nothing would give.
That game was a joke, and if the correct decisions had been made we would have won the cl.
Man Utd sat back because they were winning. If it went to extra time obviously they'd go for it again, and being at home im sure against an inferior team at old trafford they'd be favourites somehow. Maybe you'd disagree due to this 'momentum' of stealing a late goal from nothing would give.
That game was a joke, and if the correct decisions had been made we would have won the cl.
BoBo Vieri 32- Number of posts : 10187
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- Post n°82
Re: The best team and best player in the world?
by BoBo Vieri 32 Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:15 pm
L-r d wrote:A penalty is as good a chance as any. Can you understand that?
yes but you missed it...
Man Utd sat back because they were winning. If it went to extra time obviously they'd go for it again, and being at home im sure against an inferior team at old trafford they'd be favourites somehow. Maybe you'd disagree due to this 'momentum' of stealing a late goal from nothing would give.
That's quite defensive for Man Utd isn't it? to sit back on a 1 goal lead against a team that according to you is inferior. Surely they should'e looked to kill them off rather than inviting the pressure and risk of a goal.
Obviously we disagree on what would've happened in extra time, but it's hardly a forgone conclusion that Man Utd would've won. Though your theory that Man Utd would just "go for it again" is so convincing...
That game was a joke, and if the correct decisions had been made we would have won the cl.
extra time....
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
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Vierzehn wrote:@ Super Madrid
I think your over exaggerating, being cautious (for example) at times does not necessarily mean being defensive also don’t forget other factors like key personals may be absent (due to suspension or injury) you’ve got to work with what you have. In the last 10 years I don’t think there has been a completely defensively oriented side that has won the Competition.
Liverpool 2005? Apart from the 2nd half of the final, their knockout stage games were all about defend first and prevent the other team from scoring.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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If anything Liverpool started with a team too attacking compared to how they usually played that season in the CL. Gerrard and Alonso in midfield on their own without an extra player in there. It wasn't too defensive, they just had no control in the first half.
Bringing a defensive midfielder on actually gave them more balance and set the rest of the players with more chance to attack.
Bringing a defensive midfielder on actually gave them more balance and set the rest of the players with more chance to attack.
toon h- Number of posts : 8715
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I suppose Man U must have thought they COULD have won the CL again some time after 1999, but then again could anyone blame Bayern when they think THEY should have won the CL in 1999 after comprehensively outplaying Man U in the final?
I don't think Man U have won the CL less than they have ought to, even if of course with more luck they could have, just like any other team really.
I don't think Man U have won the CL less than they have ought to, even if of course with more luck they could have, just like any other team really.
Parks lives- Number of posts : 34521
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I'm happy with 2 times in 10 years. Only Milan and Real Madridcan equal that and their probably the two greatest club sides of all time.
As you say we could of won it more, we could of won it less.
As you say we could of won it more, we could of won it less.
Six- Number of posts : 4390
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kas wrote:Vierzehn wrote:@ Super Madrid
I think your over exaggerating, being cautious (for example) at times does not necessarily mean being defensive also don’t forget other factors like key personals may be absent (due to suspension or injury) you’ve got to work with what you have. In the last 10 years I don’t think there has been a completely defensively oriented side that has won the Competition.
Liverpool 2005? Apart from the 2nd half of the final, their knockout stage games were all about defend first and prevent the other team from scoring.
This isn't true. Leverkusen in the last 16 they just completely outplayed home and away, Juventus at Anfield they came at them from the first minute at a very high tempo and got the goals they needed, Chelsea match - well both teams were as cautious as each other. So you are only half right.
Batman- Number of posts : 9071
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Batman wrote:
A lot of people are saying that Barcelona are the best team in the world and Messi is the best player in the world this season.
If you agree with this then does this mean Barcelona must atleast win the League and Champions League double otherwise this season will be a failure?
La Liga
1. Barcelona - 53 pts
2. Real Madrid - 39 pts*
14 points lead.
* Real Madrid are currently drawing 0-0 with Deportivo.
Champions League
Through to the last 16, play Lyon next.
Update:
La Liga
1. Barcelona - 85 pts
2. Real Madrid - 78 pts
7 points lead, 4 games left to play.
Champions League
Semi-finals
Barca 0-0 Chelsea
Chelsea ?-? Barca
Copa del Rey
Athletic Bilbao v Barcelona
Last edited by Batman on Sat May 02, 2009 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
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Also Copa del Rey final, please add that in 
I would be delighted with a domestic double this year. Copa final will be really tough, it won't be a surprise to see Athletic park the bus and kick our players for 90 mins...apparently they've been practising penalties in training all of last week.
I would be delighted with a domestic double this year. Copa final will be really tough, it won't be a surprise to see Athletic park the bus and kick our players for 90 mins...apparently they've been practising penalties in training all of last week.
fcb- Number of posts : 40471
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Yesterday we got the answer 
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