Decline of La Liga?

Super Madrid wrote:

The Real Wilson Palacios wrote:

Black Magic wrote:I think the EPL and La Liga are both in a decline right now. The Serie A went really downhill but it seems to be slowly improving in all facets of the game.

The whole club game is in decline, quality wise. That's why a one trick pony goal hanger was voted World Player of the Year

But what has actually changed with the game? Why has it become so boring and there seems to be an apparent lack of creative players. Aren't they getting produced anymore or is there simply not room for them?
I think an old brazil star from the 70's said that he thought that there was a lack of quality footballers today compared to back then.

Imo it is not due to the lack of creative players, but the general mindset in which teams play. I.e very result oriented and tactful. Teams play to win at any cost now and fans (in alot of cases, but not all) care about results and overlook if it was shit on a stick football...

Also as been said numerous times in this board, players that are successful are whom are atheletes, physical superiority is much more important nowadays, so you're right maybe there is simply no room for them as much..(Creative players)

Jaime wrote:So just looked up the attendance figures: average attendance/capacity = average % full.

Almería 12280/21000 = 58%
Athletic 36917/40000 = 93%
Atlético 43272/56000 = 77%
Barcelona 65442/98780 = 66%Betis 38181/52700 = 72%
Deportivo 16666/35000 = 48%
Espanyol 19048/56000 = 34%
Getafe 10461/17300 = 60%
Malaga 24497/35520 = 69%
Mallorca 14333/23000 = 62%
Numancia 8263/9700 = 85%
Osasuna 16999/19800 = 86%
Racing 18439/35530 = 69%
Real Madrid 70884/80350 = 88%
Recreativo 16621/19860 = 84%
Sevilla 42307/45500 = 93%
Sporting = 21958/25885 = 85%
Valencia = 34666/35530 = 65%
Valladolid = 16407/26512 = 62%
Villarreal 19000/25000 = 76%

Average for the entire league is 71%. Not sure what it is across other leagues.

What the hell do Barcelona supporters want from their team? They are cruising in La Liga and in with a good chance in Champions League. The team deserves better support.

Super Madrid wrote:

The Real Wilson Palacios wrote:

Black Magic wrote:I think the EPL and La Liga are both in a decline right now. The Serie A went really downhill but it seems to be slowly improving in all facets of the game.

The whole club game is in decline, quality wise. That's why a one trick pony goal hanger was voted World Player of the Year

But what has actually changed with the game? Why has it become so boring and there seems to be an apparent lack of creative players. Aren't they getting produced anymore or is there simply not room for them?
I think an old brazil star from the 70's said that he thought that there was a lack of quality footballers today compared to back then.

I think it's quite simple - footballers are increasingly fitter and in better physical shape, to such an extent that the game is quicker, more physical and more reliant on tactics than it ever has been. Creative players have less time on the ball and find it harder to break down defences.

There isn't much point regretting the way that football has become though, as it's an inevitable evolution of the sport that with better sports science in football, footballers are more athletic than ever.

The result is that football isn't as pretty as it used to be on the eye. Especially in European club football. But the rare few times when a team really gels, its spectacular:

that Madrid side in 2003, when they player Manchester United and won 3-1 in the Bernabeu (best 45 minutes performance from a club side I've ever seen) and 4-3 at Old Trafford, was incredible.

Compare it with the side on Wednesday, and although I'm not a Madrid fan, it is sad to think of how far the team has declined in terms of genuine World Class quality

The Real Wilson Palacios wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

The Real Wilson Palacios wrote:

Black Magic wrote:I think the EPL and La Liga are both in a decline right now. The Serie A went really downhill but it seems to be slowly improving in all facets of the game.

The whole club game is in decline, quality wise. That's why a one trick pony goal hanger was voted World Player of the Year

But what has actually changed with the game? Why has it become so boring and there seems to be an apparent lack of creative players. Aren't they getting produced anymore or is there simply not room for them?
I think an old brazil star from the 70's said that he thought that there was a lack of quality footballers today compared to back then.

I think it's quite simple - footballers are increasingly fitter and in better physical shape, to such an extent that the game is quicker, more physical and more reliant on tactics than it ever has been. Creative players have less time on the ball and find it harder to break down defences.

There isn't much point regretting the way that football has become though, as it's an inevitable evolution of the sport that with better sports science in football, footballers are more athletic than ever.

The result is that football isn't as pretty as it used to be on the eye. Especially in European club football. But the rare few times when a team really gels, its spectacular:

that Madrid side in 2003, when they player Manchester United and won 3-1 in the Bernabeu (best 45 minutes performance from a club side I've ever seen) and 4-3 at Old Trafford, was incredible.

Compare it with the side on Wednesday, and although I'm not a Madrid fan, it is sad to think of how far the team has declined in terms of genuine World Class quality

Haha the current team wouldn't be fit to be back up for that side. The current side is sad but at least it does show some intent to play attacking but the quality isn't there. In todays game it would be effective simply to go for shit on a stick.

However that is merely one team and they don't explain the entire trend. Surely though football hasn't changed that much from 5 years ago in terms of athletes. I mean has the clubs in europe suddenly been able to make players much fitter in the last few years? I remember Vickery wrote that Maradona played in a period(82-92) where footballers were able to double the amount of space they covered and he still played quite well.

I gues the whole thing about having to survive in the league is more important and getting funds needed. Perhaps we should find a way to take money out of the question so it doesn't become so focused on that part. I mean too much money goes to agents,suits,players. If it was up to me that money could be used for people who need it more.

Is there a solution? And perhaps more important is it the job of FIFA/Uefa to create a solution? Or should football simply be let alone on this point?

how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Wasn't really my point about this but ok.
You got it right with the first one. Basically they reacted some of the stuff that the european and spanish press were saying about them. Much like Milan are facing now. So instead of replacing these players with other players around their prime 23-28 they went from having players in one extreme(old) to simply getting young ones.

Zidane =Ribery
Figo= Joaquin(too inconsistent) or perhaps Quaresma(yet to prove himself)
Beckham=Bentley?
Ronaldo= Benzema is the closest thing
Owen was really not Owen when he joined us if you know what I mean
Carlos= Evra
McManaman=??
Makelele= Masherano

Still think that Milan proved in 2007 that even if you have a slow team and play in a slow manner you can still win if you have the right quality and balance.

which Reald Madrid side was the best in recent years? the team with Ronaldo in it never won the CL.

Super Madrid wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Wasn't really my point about this but ok.
You got it right with the first one. Basically they reacted some of the stuff that the european and spanish press were saying about them. Much like Milan are facing now. So instead of replacing these players with other players around their prime 23-28 they went from having players in one extreme(old) to simply getting young ones.

Zidane =Ribery
Figo= Joaquin(too inconsistent) or perhaps Quaresma(yet to prove himself)
Beckham=Bentley?
Ronaldo= Benzema is the closest thing
Owen was really not Owen when he joined us if you know what I mean
Carlos= Evra
McManaman=??
Makelele= Masherano

Still think that Milan proved in 2007 that even if you have a slow team and play in a slow manner you can still win if you have the right quality and balance.

Let's be honest here--we won in 2007 not because we had a balanced team, but because we peaked at the right time. A team that was playing Maldini (a sprightly 38 then) and Kaladze in the final (even if briefly) did not have a balanced team.

The most balanced sides in Europe are Manchester United and Inter. I can safely say that while our 2007 team matched these sides in the attack department, our defence and goalkeeping positions were far from secure.

Batman wrote:which Reald Madrid side was the best in recent years? the team with Ronaldo in it never won the CL.

That is easy, the team in 2003 that reached the semis was the best Real Madrid team I have seen and prob ever will see. If im going to assume that football will continue to go the direction that it is going then I will prob never see a side play that beautiful. In 2003 we might aswell have won but we were reliant on our first team which is why Juve made it hard. Didn't matter since I wanted Juve to win more back then for some reason I can't recall now.

But it doesn't always go like that. For example Barca peaked in 05 and were great to watch but as a result of the way they went out to Mourinho they got pragmatic the following year and won. The same counts for Man Utd in 07 who were much more a fresh and vibrant(whatever that means) compared to the side that won the following year.

Regarding Milan you won because of the reasons you mentioned but my point was that Milan were able to win despite not playing what I call the CL style. Which means that instead of making it all about the counter Milan was a side that actually slowed the tempo down and didn't really have any fast players except for Kaka.

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Roberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

I don't think there are equivalent players to these in today's game.

Batman wrote:which Reald Madrid side was the best in recent years? the team with Ronaldo in it never won the CL.

For me that was the last great side (02-03). We won the league that year and got the semifinals of the CL. If only Figo had made that penalty in Turin....

Jaime wrote:

Batman wrote:which Reald Madrid side was the best in recent years? the team with Ronaldo in it never won the CL.

For me that was the last great side (02-03). We won the league that year and got the semifinals of the CL. If only Figo had made that penalty in Turin....

The 03/04 side still played very good football and even got a 9 point lead over Valencia. If we didn't lose that cup final against Zaragoza things might have been alot different today. But I agree with your choice because while I like Becks he didn't really add anything special to the team like all other galaticos had done up to that moment.

Super Madrid wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Batman wrote:which Reald Madrid side was the best in recent years? the team with Ronaldo in it never won the CL.

For me that was the last great side (02-03). We won the league that year and got the semifinals of the CL. If only Figo had made that penalty in Turin....

The 03/04 side still played very good football and even got a 9 point lead over Valencia. If we didn't lose that cup final against Zaragoza things might have been alot different today. But I agree with your choice because while I like Becks he didn't really add anything special to the team like all other galaticos had done up to that moment.

The 03/04 team didn't have much balance. And our defence wasn't nearly as good as in 02/03 mainly because Raul Bravo was first choice centre back for most of the season.

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

lol Mcmanaman was a galactico?

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

lol Mcmanaman was a galactico?

Not really, but more a useful player like Solari. The Galaticos in my opinion were Figo,Zidane,Ronaldo,Beckham, Raul,Carlos. The players that came afterwards Owen/Baptista/Robinho simply didn't have the quality.

Super Madrid wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Wasn't really my point about this but ok.
You got it right with the first one. Basically they reacted some of the stuff that the european and spanish press were saying about them. Much like Milan are facing now. So instead of replacing these players with other players around their prime 23-28 they went from having players in one extreme(old) to simply getting young ones.

Zidane =Ribery
Figo= Joaquin(too inconsistent) or perhaps Quaresma(yet to prove himself)
Beckham=Bentley?
Ronaldo= Benzema is the closest thing
Owen was really not Owen when he joined us if you know what I mean
Carlos= Evra
McManaman=??
Makelele= Masherano

Still think that Milan proved in 2007 that even if you have a slow team and play in a slow manner you can still win if you have the right quality and balance.

Agree with Ribery, Evra and Mascherano. Perhaps put C. Ronaldo for Figo and Adriano for Ronaldo.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Wasn't really my point about this but ok.
You got it right with the first one. Basically they reacted some of the stuff that the european and spanish press were saying about them. Much like Milan are facing now. So instead of replacing these players with other players around their prime 23-28 they went from having players in one extreme(old) to simply getting young ones.

Zidane =Ribery
Figo= Joaquin(too inconsistent) or perhaps Quaresma(yet to prove himself)
Beckham=Bentley?
Ronaldo= Benzema is the closest thing
Owen was really not Owen when he joined us if you know what I mean
Carlos= Evra
McManaman=??
Makelele= Masherano

Still think that Milan proved in 2007 that even if you have a slow team and play in a slow manner you can still win if you have the right quality and balance.

Let's be honest here--we won in 2007 not because we had a balanced team, but because we peaked at the right time. A team that was playing Maldini (a sprightly 38 then) and Kaladze in the final (even if briefly) did not have a balanced team.

The most balanced sides in Europe are Manchester United and Inter. I can safely say that while our 2007 team matched these sides in the attack department, our defence and goalkeeping positions were far from secure.

Nesta's return definitely helped you guys. Nesta - Maldini/Kaladze was fine. Seedorf and Kaka were also outstanding. Generally speaking, you managed to keep your key players fit during the decisive stages aswell.

I agree on Man Utd. Inter still need to make adjustments to their midfield.

Il Tritolone wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Wasn't really my point about this but ok.
You got it right with the first one. Basically they reacted some of the stuff that the european and spanish press were saying about them. Much like Milan are facing now. So instead of replacing these players with other players around their prime 23-28 they went from having players in one extreme(old) to simply getting young ones.

Zidane =Ribery
Figo= Joaquin(too inconsistent) or perhaps Quaresma(yet to prove himself)
Beckham=Bentley?
Ronaldo= Benzema is the closest thing
Owen was really not Owen when he joined us if you know what I mean
Carlos= Evra
McManaman=??
Makelele= Masherano

Still think that Milan proved in 2007 that even if you have a slow team and play in a slow manner you can still win if you have the right quality and balance.

Agree with Ribery, Evra and Mascherano. Perhaps put C. Ronaldo for Figo and Adriano for Ronaldo.

C.Ronaldo is nothing like Figo allthough there used to be a time where I thought he would become. C.Ronaldo has taken a way different road compared to Figo. Figo was a great crosser,dribbler,passer and C. Ronaldo is more like a striker or a goalscoring winger.
I though Benzema fits more because he has the same style of being clinical with his finishes that Ronaldo did. Adriano when he was good had some things in common.

Super Madrid wrote:

Il Tritolone wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Rioberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

Wasn't really my point about this but ok.
You got it right with the first one. Basically they reacted some of the stuff that the european and spanish press were saying about them. Much like Milan are facing now. So instead of replacing these players with other players around their prime 23-28 they went from having players in one extreme(old) to simply getting young ones.

Zidane =Ribery
Figo= Joaquin(too inconsistent) or perhaps Quaresma(yet to prove himself)
Beckham=Bentley?
Ronaldo= Benzema is the closest thing
Owen was really not Owen when he joined us if you know what I mean
Carlos= Evra
McManaman=??
Makelele= Masherano

Still think that Milan proved in 2007 that even if you have a slow team and play in a slow manner you can still win if you have the right quality and balance.

Agree with Ribery, Evra and Mascherano. Perhaps put C. Ronaldo for Figo and Adriano for Ronaldo.

C.Ronaldo is nothing like Figo allthough there used to be a time where I thought he would become. C.Ronaldo has taken a way different road compared to Figo. Figo was a great crosser,dribbler,passer and C. Ronaldo is more like a striker or a goalscoring winger.
I though Benzema fits more because he has the same style of being clinical with his finishes that Ronaldo did. Adriano when he was good had some things in common.

I guess i tried to take status into account too.

When Figo, Zidane and Ronaldo were bought they were regarded by many as the best player in the world for their position.

I do agree with your analysis in terms of style of play though.

Ok well in that aspect yes Ronaldo would be more like Figo. In terms of glamour and hype the new galaticos would prob be Kaka/Ronaldo/Ribery.

Hopefully Perez will still be able to get the big stars but actually get players we need as he he did with his first 3 star signings and not simply continue where he left off getting players who had a certain image.

The reported pursuit of Ronaldo and Kaka makes me wonder. At the same time there has been reports of using Zidane to get Ribery and Benzema. This will decide whether it will be more circus for the next couple of years or actual rebuilding.

Just wondering, do Madrid fans see the signing of Ronaldo in 2002 as necessary? I know he did very well for you guys but you had Morientes and Raul - Morientes was a very good partnership.

Il Tritolone wrote:Just wondering, do Madrid fans see the signing of Ronaldo in 2002 as necessary? I know he did very well for you guys but you had Morientes and Raul - Morientes was a very good partnership.

That is true and in a sense I gues he wasn't but he added a level to our play I would say and while I like Morientes, Ronaldo was simply better. Ronaldo was the last great signing. After that it truly became about image and not what was delivered. Not that I dislike Beckham but he wasn't right for the club/style and it was made even harder for him when he had to play in the central midfield. Still very grateful he delivered in the end though.

How much would it cost to assemble this team?



Carlos = Clichy
Figo = Ribery
Zidane = Kaka, but starting from RM instead of LM
Ronaldo = Benzema

If you got some spare money then this could be your CM:

Fabregas . . Mascherano

But never going to happen because Benzema is going to sign for Man Utd.

Batman wrote:How much would it cost to assemble this team?

Casillas

Ramos . . Pepe . . Cannavaro . . Clichy

Kaka . . . Gago . . . Diarra . . . Ribery

Higuaín . . . Benzema

Carlos = Clichy
Figo = Ribery
Zidane = Kaka, but starting from RM instead of LM
Ronaldo = Benzema

If you got some spare money then this could be your CM:

Fabregas . . Mascherano

But never going to happen because Benzema is going to sign for Man Utd.

More then we could afford. Lass has done well enough to be a sure starter and there is no point in going for Mascherano as I see it. He is better positional but Lass is faster and a better passer which is what I really like about him. I don't want Kaka because he should play in Milan after what happened. That ship has sailed. Allthough Robben will never be a new Figo and doesn't have the passing ability I would prefer if he stayed.

If DLR won't be able to play football again then somebody is needed to organise play and currently I can only think Ledesma and Cesc. They aren't much different in terms of quality but Cesc is more experienced.

Don't be so sure about Benzema because Perez is said to interested and he will use Zidane to get him I believe. Also can't see SAF getting Benzema when he has Berbatov and Rooney. That kind behaviour is something Real Madrid does.

Ribery is coming to barca and benzema to man utd, so that will need some new players and you know raul has to start.


With Carlo has the coach


------------Iker

--Ramos---Pepe---Cana--Lb

-----DLR---Lass---Gago

------Higuaín/Raul---Crack

---------Raul/RVN

That looks more like it.

Wenger


----------Iker

--Ramos--Pepe--Garay--Clichy

--Robben---Lass--Cesc--Ronaldo

----------Higuaín--Raul.

Il Tritolone wrote:Just wondering, do Madrid fans see the signing of Ronaldo in 2002 as necessary? I know he did very well for you guys but you had Morientes and Raul - Morientes was a very good partnership.

He wasn't necessary but Morientes was really a 15 goal per season sort of striker whereas Ronaldo was 20-25 (when fit). It was an upgrade I suppose although Raul and Ronaldo never connected quite as well. Raul's worst years were while Ronaldo was with us. Not sure if there is much to that correlation or not but it's worth noting.

Batman wrote:How much would it cost to assemble this team?

Casillas

Ramos . . Pepe . . Cannavaro . . Clichy

Kaka . . . Gago . . . Diarra . . . Ribery

Higuaín . . . Benzema

Carlos = Clichy
Figo = Ribery
Zidane = Kaka, but starting from RM instead of LM
Ronaldo = Benzema

If you got some spare money then this could be your CM:

Fabregas . . Mascherano

But never going to happen because Benzema is going to sign for Man Utd.

Not sure if I can get on board with Clichy although I really don't know what is a great left back that we could get. The others are plausible. But I wouldn't want Kaka on the wing. What a waste! At the height of the galactico era we played with only Makelele as the DM and my greatest wish is that we would play with only Lass or Gago.

Jaime if there is one player that we should be trying to get it from Man Utd it is indeed Evra. Fits the mould exactly allthough you never know with defenders from outside Spain.

Messiah
If Perez+Zidane at the helm I don't think it is impossible to believe that we would get Benzema and Ribery.

Jaime wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Roberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

I don't think there are equivalent players to these in today's game.

I agree with you honey, but for arguments sake, who are their equivalents in terms of status?

you could say Kaka, Ribery, Ronaldo, Adriano, Benzema, Evra, SWP and Mascherano.

These are the players you should sign in the summer

Glennathinaikos wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Glennathinaikos wrote:how has the Real team declined over the years? Were they caught up with replacing Galácticos with overseas youngsters?

Who would be the modern day Galácticos to replace Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Ronaldo, Owen, Roberto Carlos, McManaman and Makalele?

I don't think there are equivalent players to these in today's game.

I agree with you honey, but for arguments sake, who are their equivalents in terms of status?

you could say Kaka, Ribery, Ronaldo, Adriano, Benzema, Evra, SWP and Mascherano.

These are the players you should sign in the summer

Probably Kaka, Cristiano Ronaldo. Benzema is hard to say since he is still young but I think eventually he would have that status.

Adriano I would say no. And Ribery...most of what I've seen from him is with France so it's hard for me to say.

And if we are going by strict definitions a galactico cannot play DM so we have to forget about Mascherano. Besides, Lass and Gago are good enough.