La Liga Jornada 25

Stop rubbing it in about Arshavin

You should have listened to me Txiki...we wouldn't even need to worry about Ribery atm

kas wrote:

Jaime wrote:

kas wrote:

Jaime wrote:

kas wrote:Why is Henry below Raul and Higuain even though alphabetically he should be above them?


Just shows you how everything is against Barça...media is always trying to put us down.

I put him after Raul and Higuain. It was intentional.

Even the Madrid fans are brainwashed by their newspapers' approach to life

Nah it's just the cule inferiority complex that you are struggling with. 14 is the same as 14 no matter what order you put it.

Don't worry I'm just kidding

Me to!

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Does it matter?
Don't think Barca fans rate Henry still or I might be wrong. With that said Henry made a great goal last night when they needed it but still don't think he gives alot to the Barca team. They should have gone for Arshavin who could get goals but more importantly he could create alot more chances then Henry.

I used to rate Henry before he joined them. Obviously because he was (and still is) the key for Les Blues. But for Farca, He seems to be out of touch, and couldn't dribble past the fullback with his dumb dummy moves. But absolutely right about Arshavin fitting their sytle. Thankfully he didn't sign for them. They signed an incompatible player in Hleb.

Actually I hoped Barca would get Arshavin because he would add more to Barca then Henry ever did. One thing Henry does add though his the poachers nose for goals.

I don't think he is a goal poacher. But I get what you are trying to say.

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Does it matter?
Don't think Barca fans rate Henry still or I might be wrong. With that said Henry made a great goal last night when they needed it but still don't think he gives alot to the Barca team. They should have gone for Arshavin who could get goals but more importantly he could create alot more chances then Henry.

I used to rate Henry before he joined them. Obviously because he was (and still is) the key for Les Blues. But for Farca, He seems to be out of touch, and couldn't dribble past the fullback with his dumb dummy moves. But absolutely right about Arshavin fitting their sytle. Thankfully he didn't sign for them. They signed an incompatible player in Hleb.

Really? His performances with France are actually part of why I've never rated him as high as other people do. In big tournaments, Henry has generally been a passenger rather than a key player for France. His best tournament has been Euro 2000, but even then he didn't stand out anywhere near as much as the likes of Zidane and Desailly.

As Zidane began to fade, it should have been Henry's moment to take over but he has proven to be completely unable to take up the task. He had enough opportunities to make an international tournament his, but he hasn't manage to push the team forward when they needed him the most.

I'm not saying he's the main culprit for France's recent underachievement, but I would have expected a player rated that highly to stand out the way the likes of Ronaldo, Zidane, Berkamp, etc. have done in the past.

Torrente wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Does it matter?
Don't think Barca fans rate Henry still or I might be wrong. With that said Henry made a great goal last night when they needed it but still don't think he gives alot to the Barca team. They should have gone for Arshavin who could get goals but more importantly he could create alot more chances then Henry.

I used to rate Henry before he joined them. Obviously because he was (and still is) the key for Les Blues. But for Farca, He seems to be out of touch, and couldn't dribble past the fullback with his dumb dummy moves. But absolutely right about Arshavin fitting their sytle. Thankfully he didn't sign for them. They signed an incompatible player in Hleb.

Really? His performances with France are actually part of why I've never rated him as high as other people do. In big tournaments, Henry has generally been a passenger rather than a key player for France. His best tournament has been Euro 2000, but even then he didn't stand out anywhere near as much as the likes of Zidane and Desailly.

As Zidane began to fade, it should have been Henry's moment to take over but he has proven to be completely unable to take up the task. He had enough opportunities to make an international tournament his, but he hasn't manage to push the team forward when they needed him the most.

I'm not saying he's the main culprit for France's recent underachievement, but I would have expected a player rated that highly to stand out the way the likes of Ronaldo, Zidane, Berkamp, etc. have done in the past.

I don't think he is in levels of Ronaldo, or Zidane. Such far-fetched comparisons would go nowhere. But it's really ignorant and negligent to undermine his contributions over the years.

He was definitely a key player in Group stages of WC'98 when Zizou wasn't playing. That was when Dugarry wasn't doing the job, Henry had a good tournament. He had tremendous pace, and good finishing. Djorkaeff wasn't sharp enough in finishing off. Henry played rather well, even though it's just minnows. But he went out of the team as Zizou returned. Ditto Euro'00, where I thought the fresh players (Trez, Henry, Wiltord, Pires) contributed much more for the team. The tournament which I thought Henry was absolute dross was Euro04' (WC'02 doesn't count because the w*nker got sent off, and God was missing too. Things didn't work for us even before the tournament kicked off). Needless to say, he was definitely among the best in WC'06, together with Zizou, Ribery, and Vieira - he was really influential. It surprised me a bit that he could lead the line by himself (sure, some say Trez would have done better, but he looked absolute drab in friendlies and qualifiers. Henry looked the better choice, and also had a better season for Arsenal that year.) In all fairness, he still looks the best attacking player along with Ribery for France. Sure Gourcuff has been a relief in recent times. But other than that, Benzema, Nasri, and rest haven't done anything of note for the NT. They aren't up for it yet.

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

The Professor wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

Actually Henry has only started 18 matches. And when have I said he's not having a good season? He's not a great player, but he's having a good season.

Zizoued
You thought Henry was great in 06? The only cup I have seen where he has been good was in Euro 2000. Never thought he delivered for France. Was much better for Arsenal then he ever was for France.

The Professor
He has been better this season then he was last season but I have been far from impressed with his general play. He has gotten goals though but don't think he has added much to Barcas play. But you should ask Barca fans what they think because im not sure they are happy with Henry allthough I might be wrong.

Super Madrid wrote:Zizoued
You thought Henry was great in 06? The only cup I have seen where he has been good was in Euro 2000. Never thought he delivered for France. Was much better for Arsenal then he ever was for France.

I don't know why people here don't see it that way. He was definitely good in '06 along with God, Ribery, and Vieira. The whole of France were satisfied with him.



Btw I think he is having a good season for Farca. But lot of it is down to the form of the team. Let's see if he could lift them up when others aren't playing well. Especially now they're going to crash down to earth.

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

Actually Henry has only started 18 matches. And when have I said he's not having a good season? He's not a great player, but he's having a good season.

Fair enough.

You probably didn't mean it, but I think I have seen posts from you that he was shite, and you have been 'underwhelmed' by him this season.

The Professor wrote:

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

Actually Henry has only started 18 matches. And when have I said he's not having a good season? He's not a great player, but he's having a good season.

Fair enough.

You probably didn't mean it, but I think I have seen posts from you that he was shite, and you have been 'underwhelmed' by him this season.

There have been several matches where he was sh!te. And even though he's scoring goals, particularly in the first have of the season, he was rather anonymous in a lot of the games which was probably the source of my underwhelmed comment (it does ring a bell). At present, I'd say he's having a good season, much better than I would have ever expected, but he's still not even been Barcelona's 4th or 5th best player.

Super Madrid wrote:Zizoued
You thought Henry was great in 06? The only cup I have seen where he has been good was in Euro 2000. Never thought he delivered for France. Was much better for Arsenal then he ever was for France.

The Professor
He has been better this season then he was last season but I have been far from impressed with his general play. He has gotten goals though but don't think he has added much to Barcas play. But you should ask Barca fans what they think because im not sure they are happy with Henry allthough I might be wrong.

That's true, but he was one of France's key player at world cup 2006. Just have a look at their goals at important moments and see Henry's contribution in them.

Part of the reason Henry didn't reproduce his Arsenal form for France is the fact Les Bleus almost always rely on a pure no 10 for creativity. Henry's doesn't do well with these players and systems in which they are the main creative force. He excels in teams that get the ball to the attackers very quickly. He's similar in that respect with Cristiano and Toress(similar reason why he he doesn't reproduce his club form for country).

And no I don't have to ask Barca fans about Henry's performances, your opinion on him(probably agenda based) is always far from the truth. I see them weekly. And even though I don't support them, I have always had a soft spot for them for a long time (dating back to the 2003/2004 season).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b86407BwHA

The Barca downfall from last night, its in German even so I just cant get any better!!

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

Actually Henry has only started 18 matches. And when have I said he's not having a good season? He's not a great player, but he's having a good season.

Fair enough.

You probably didn't mean it, but I think I have seen posts from you that he was shite, and you have been 'underwhelmed' by him this season.

There have been several matches where he was sh!te. And even though he's scoring goals, particularly in the first have of the season, he was rather anonymous in a lot of the games which was probably the source of my underwhelmed comment (it does ring a bell). At present, I'd say he's having a good season, much better than I would have ever expected, but he's still not even been Barcelona's 4th or 5th best player.

Think every barca player looked good in open play in the 1st half of the season with the exception of that kid that's called Sanchez or something. Anyway we all see things differently.

The Professor wrote:

Super Madrid wrote:Zizoued
You thought Henry was great in 06? The only cup I have seen where he has been good was in Euro 2000. Never thought he delivered for France. Was much better for Arsenal then he ever was for France.

The Professor
He has been better this season then he was last season but I have been far from impressed with his general play. He has gotten goals though but don't think he has added much to Barcas play. But you should ask Barca fans what they think because im not sure they are happy with Henry allthough I might be wrong.

That's true, but he was one of France's key player at world cup 2006. Just have a look at their goals at important moments and see Henry's contribution in them.

Part of the reason Henry didn't reproduce his Arsenal form for France is the fact Les Bleus almost always rely on a pure no 10 for creativity. Henry's doesn't do well with these players and systems in which they are the main creative force. He excels in teams that get the ball to the attackers very quickly. He's similar in that respect with Cristiano and Toress(similar reason why he he doesn't reproduce his club form for country).

And no I don't have to ask Barca fans about Henry's performances, your opinion on him(probably agenda based) is always far from the truth. I see them weekly. And even though I don't support them, I have always had a soft spot for them for a long time (dating back to the 2003/2004 season).

Are you saying im biased towards Henry and you are objective?
The reason I said ask Barca fans is that if you believe that I have a bias because im a Real fan and therefor hopes he fails then it might give some insight to listen to what Barca fans have to say.

Either way we wouldn't agree regarding Henry in 06 because I thought he was invincible alot of the time but he did get some goals though. And if you believe I have an agenda then no point in trying to arguing with me so lets just let this one go because I don't want debates like the ones you have with Pierre.

The Professor wrote:

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

Actually Henry has only started 18 matches. And when have I said he's not having a good season? He's not a great player, but he's having a good season.

Fair enough.

You probably didn't mean it, but I think I have seen posts from you that he was shite, and you have been 'underwhelmed' by him this season.

There have been several matches where he was sh!te. And even though he's scoring goals, particularly in the first have of the season, he was rather anonymous in a lot of the games which was probably the source of my underwhelmed comment (it does ring a bell). At present, I'd say he's having a good season, much better than I would have ever expected, but he's still not even been Barcelona's 4th or 5th best player.

Think every barca player looked good in open play in the 1st half of the season with the exception of that kid that's called Sanchez or something. Anyway we all see things differently.

Of late Henry's been one of their best performers but the only really memorable game that he's had was his performance against Valencia. He was superb that evening. But for me he's just not that influential. Can't say anything about his goal scoring rate this year but he just doesn't take the game by the scruff of the neck very often. In my opinion.

All Henry did in the knockout rounds of the World Cup in 2006 was score a 2 meter tap-in against Brasil. He was barely influential at all. Zidane was the one who ran the show while Henry didn't do anything significant. Henry had a decent tournament, but that's it. He was hardly a "key player" for France.

Henry impressed me in the final, before that he woulda been getting 6 or 7's for his performances

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Jaime wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:Henry played more games than Raul and Higuain, didn't he?

Henry has got 14 goals in 19 starts. Played 23 games overall.

Raul has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Played 24 games overall.

Higuain has got 14 goals in 22 starts. Scored 2 penalties, and no sub appearances.

Overall I'd say Henry is having a good season, only people like Super Madrid and Jamie would say otherwise. Only Eto'o(3 penatlies scored), Villa(4 penalties scored), Messi(1 penalty), and Forlan(3 penalty) have got better goals to minutes ratio in La liga. Take away those penalties and he'll probably top them all.

Actually Henry has only started 18 matches. And when have I said he's not having a good season? He's not a great player, but he's having a good season.

Fair enough.

You probably didn't mean it, but I think I have seen posts from you that he was shite, and you have been 'underwhelmed' by him this season.

There have been several matches where he was sh!te. And even though he's scoring goals, particularly in the first have of the season, he was rather anonymous in a lot of the games which was probably the source of my underwhelmed comment (it does ring a bell). At present, I'd say he's having a good season, much better than I would have ever expected, but he's still not even been Barcelona's 4th or 5th best player.

Think every barca player looked good in open play in the 1st half of the season with the exception of that kid that's called Sanchez or something. Anyway we all see things differently.

Of late Henry's been one of their best performers but the only really memorable game that he's had was his performance against Valencia. He was superb that evening. But for me he's just not that influential. Can't say anything about his goal scoring rate this year but he just doesn't take the game by the scruff of the neck very often. In my opinion.

He's basically Barcelona's Raul at the moment, only that Raul scores more goals than him. And Madrid fans in general are quite critical of Raul, so I don't see why Barcelona fans wouldn't be toward Henry. Like you said, his only truly great game was against Valencia.

But Henry still has the rest of the season to prove his doubters wrong. If he scores in key matches or puts up great performances toward the end of the season in the league and CL, then we can say he's had a great season, but not before then IMO.

I was just going to make the comparison, Henry-Raul. I think it's very similar.

Torrente wrote:All Henry did in the knockout rounds of the World Cup in 2006 was score a 2 meter tap-in against Brasil. He was barely influential at all. Zidane was the one who ran the show while Henry didn't do anything significant. Henry had a decent tournament, but that's it. He was hardly a "key player" for France.

Not many players score every game in KO phase. It's safe to say all 4 players (ZZ, PV, FR, TH) contributed together.You are missing Henry earning penalty against Portugal. Some say it's a dive. I blame Carvalho's foot. And also face-clutching antics (though it's a foul) against Puyol ..which got the freekick for Vieira's goal against Spain. And Malouda too contributed by earning that penalty in finals. It's a team game. France rely heavily on Zizou, but certainly other players contributed than you would like to believe.

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Torrente wrote:All Henry did in the knockout rounds of the World Cup in 2006 was score a 2 meter tap-in against Brasil. He was barely influential at all. Zidane was the one who ran the show while Henry didn't do anything significant. Henry had a decent tournament, but that's it. He was hardly a "key player" for France.

Not many players score every game in KO phase. It's safe to say all 4 players (ZZ, PV, FR, TH) contributed together.You are missing Henry earning penalty against Portugal. Some say it's a dive. I blame Carvalho's foot. And also face-clutching antics (though it's a foul) against Puyol ..which got the freekick for Vieira's goal against Spain. And Malouda too contributed by earning that penalty in finals. It's a team game. France rely heavily on Zizou, but certainly other players contributed than you would like to believe.

Well, that free kick was about 35 meters away from the goal and it was more of a stupid action by Puyol than anything else. Didn't remember about the penalty, not sure if it was a dive or not.

But my point is not that Henry didn't contribute, rather than he wasn't really a "key player". I just didn't see any games where I thought Henry did anything special for France to win, which is an important criterion for being called a key player.

Torrente wrote:

Unflinching Frenchman wrote:

Torrente wrote:All Henry did in the knockout rounds of the World Cup in 2006 was score a 2 meter tap-in against Brasil. He was barely influential at all. Zidane was the one who ran the show while Henry didn't do anything significant. Henry had a decent tournament, but that's it. He was hardly a "key player" for France.

Not many players score every game in KO phase. It's safe to say all 4 players (ZZ, PV, FR, TH) contributed together.You are missing Henry earning penalty against Portugal. Some say it's a dive. I blame Carvalho's foot. And also face-clutching antics (though it's a foul) against Puyol ..which got the freekick for Vieira's goal against Spain. And Malouda too contributed by earning that penalty in finals. It's a team game. France rely heavily on Zizou, but certainly other players contributed than you would like to believe.

Well, that free kick was about 35 meters away from the goal and it was more of a stupid action by Puyol than anything else. Didn't remember about the penalty, not sure if it was a dive or not.

But my point is not that Henry didn't contribute, rather than he wasn't really a "key player". I just didn't see any games where I thought Henry did anything special for France to win, which is an important criterion for being called a key player.

It's strange that we're doing a Pierre-Professor. A "key" factor in the team progressing? By that definition, He was a key player for France in WC'06. Definitely so in KO games against Spain, Portugal and Brazil. And most definitely in the group stage, which is underrated greatly. Obviously with possible exception of Zizou (mainly in KO phase, and against Brazil most definitely), no one reeked of wizardry, awesomeness or what have you.

How did this turned out to be a Henry thread?

Well for me Henry has had a really good season, though that judgment is conditioned by how poor he was last year. He's adapted to a slightly different role, because at France and Arsenal he's the main man in attack, whereas here he's just another cog. Guardiola has been able to explain to Henry exactly what he wants from him, and the player has done his job well with the results being some good goals in various match situations, and with mostly all of them being useful for the team.

He'll never be considered "worth it" in terms of how much we paid (and are still paying in wages), so we just have to ignore the money aspect and consider what he's providing on the field for this season and next, because after that I can't see him giving much more.

I think we should be happy. Just imagine what Milan are thinking with the wages that they are paying for Sheva and what do they get in return.