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Aristoskank
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    Home-grown player quotas and squad size limits

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    Home-grown player quotas and squad size limits Empty Home-grown player quotas and squad size limits

    Post by fcb Sun May 17, 2009 12:05 pm

    Looks like both these measures are under discussion to be implemented in the Premier League. I remember posting about the squad size issue recently, and IMO it's a very effective and easily-enforced rule to curb some of the excesses of the Big 4 ok

    The home-grown players rule is a bit more complex, and I think what they're currently considering (8 players must be home-grown) will simply accelerate the big clubs stealing talent from others around Europe (and probably within England, driving prices of English players up even more) when those kids turn 15. So this idea IMO needs more discussion.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/17/premier-league-limit-squad-size



    The number of footballers on the books of Premier League clubs will be drastically reduced if radical plans to overhaul squad sizes are approved.

    League rules could be dramatically redrawn early next month, with a new limit on the size of squads for a -season – perhaps as low as 25 players, but more likely around 30. If the new rule is agreed, clubs would have to stick with those players regardless of injuries and suspensions until, at least, the January transfer window.

    The news, welcomed by Uefa, comes following The Observer's recent report into the "Anfield 62", the number of players currently on the books at Liverpool. Arsenal have 59, Manchester United 51 and Chelsea 46. The new rule – which needs support from 14 of the 20 clubs to be passed – would mean the "big four" clubs picking from the same number of players as, say, Bolton, who have the -Premier League's smallest squad of 27. The average squad size is just over 40.

    The idea won immediate support from Bolton. Phil Gartside, the club's chairman, said he would be firmly behind the introduction of a squad-limit rule. "Yeah, we'd go for that," Gartside said of the plan, which has been proposed by the Premier League. "It's a good idea. And my manager thinks it's a good idea," he added, after discussing it directly with Gary Megson. Asked if there was a general feeling among some clubs that it would be a good change to the rules, Gartside said: "I've no idea, it's not been discussed." But he pledged to canvass support for the proposal from his fellow chairmen.

    The plan comes in tandem with the Premier League's promise to adopt, from the 2010-11 season, -quotas of "homegrown" players – those who have been brought through a club's youth system. Talks are ongoing on whether the quota should apply to a matchday squad or a first-team squad named for the whole season. David Taylor, chief executive of Uefa, the European governing body who have taken the lead in adopting limits on squad sizes for their own competitions, told Observer Sport that his organisation would back the plans. "I'm very pleased to hear that not only are -they -discussing these things, but the likelihood is they may well adopt one or two ideas. It would be beneficial for the -English game in general, so I'm very keen to see what happens."

    Uefa do not always enjoy smooth relations with the Premier League. The president, Michel Platini, has been a consistent critic of the level of debt accumulated by clubs.

    The Premier League confirmed that during their summer meeting in the first week of June a day will be spent discussing how best to implement the "home-grown" player quotas. Experts in the field have been invited to offer advice. Clubs might have to select as many as eight "home-grown" players – those who, under Uefa's definition, have trained with a club for three successive years between the ages of 15 and 21.

    Taylor said he would be happy to offer advice, though the Premier League have not invited any Uefa representation to next month's meeting.

    "They are big enough themselves to come to their own conclusions," said Taylor. "Richard Scudamore [the -Premier League's chief executive] is in touch from time to time, so we talk. It's up to them."

    A Premier League spokesperson said last night: "The 20 Premier League clubs will -discuss various home-grown player systems at their summer meeting and decisions will flow from that."

    If the clubs do adopt the squad limits the Premier League will, according to Taylor, become the first in Europe to do so. "I really do hope they do it, because I really think it's in the best interests of the game."
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Sun May 17, 2009 12:11 pm

    What happens in case of injuries?

    If you're only allowed 25 players, and matchday squads are now 18 players then it won't take long before we have the sorts of problems that lead to the FA disciplining teams for following the very policies the FA dictates.

    I think there are bigger fish to fry than squad size limits.
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    Post by fcb Sun May 17, 2009 12:18 pm

    Then you call up players from your youth team.
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    Post by Aristoskank Sun May 17, 2009 12:35 pm

    In which case what's the difference between the proposal and the present system, except maybe a few players being classed as 'youth' for a bit longer?
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    Post by fcb Sun May 17, 2009 12:41 pm

    The difference is subtle, I agree, but to take 2 examples:

    1. What if Man. Utd didn't register Macheda as part of their 25? afaik they didn't have 7 injuries before the Villa game, so they would not have been able to use him.

    2. How will Arsenal cope with the increased workload brought about by not being able to play 15 year olds in the Carling Cup and having to pick players for that from their "first team" of 25?

    The rule applies in Spain and big clubs have to cope with the fixture load without using twice as many players as a smaller club.
    Six
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    Post by Six Sun May 17, 2009 12:42 pm

    kas wrote:Then you call up players from your youth team.

    Most of the "Anfield 62" are youth players though, so that wouldn't really work. Unless you mean the kids who havent even got a pro contract yet?

    Saints: Don't you think 30 players is enough for the half a season between transfer windows? It might make clubs like Arsenal finally look at the injury problems they continually suffer. Also the youth players will be less eager to sign up for the likes of Liverpool if they realise they have to fight for a place in the squad before the season even starts.
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    Post by DeLux Sun May 17, 2009 12:50 pm

    Sounds good to me. 25 first team players and five from the reserves.
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    Post by debaser Sun May 17, 2009 12:57 pm

    I think a wage cap is a better way to go, as that will stop top teams from being able to bring in World class players and just sit them on the bench all season, or at least teams & players would have to compromise in some areas. Perhaps there could be gradations for age too, so they can't simply offer any promising kid they see some £1000 a week deal to nick them from the producing club.

    If there's a limit to 25, top 4 can still make sure they have 25 top class pros on huge wages, and then keep as many promising kids as they want on the side.

    Not sure the best way to set a wage cap though (i.e. should it be relative to turnover, to attendances or fixed in some other way).


    Does anyone have stats on how many players teams actually used this season? Are top 4 really using much more than 25-30 of their 50 player squad?


    Last edited by debaser on Sun May 17, 2009 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Sun May 17, 2009 1:01 pm

    kas wrote:The difference is subtle, I agree, but to take 2 examples:

    1. What if Man. Utd didn't register Macheda as part of their 25? afaik they didn't have 7 injuries before the Villa game, so they would not have been able to use him.

    Isn't he young enough to be classed as a youth?

    If he isn't then I take your point.

    2. How will Arsenal cope with the increased workload brought about by not being able to play 15 year olds in the Carling Cup and having to pick players for that from their "first team" of 25?

    Again, the critical thing would be how you define the players beyond the 25, and the conditions that allow you to play them. If Arsenal had to have players out injured in order to access players beyond the 25 then I can see it being quite a change from the present system. But being the club they are, and obviously I'm not just referring to Arsenal here, I reckon they'd find a way around it and still essentially have the same policy as now.

    The rule applies in Spain and big clubs have to cope with the fixture load without using twice as many players as a smaller club.

    And how does it work, do players have to be injured for a club to use a player beyond the 25, or whatever the number is?
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    Post by Six Sun May 17, 2009 1:07 pm

    Looking at it Liverpool have used around 25 players in all competitions this year. United and Arsenal have probably used more than that.
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    Post by fcb Sun May 17, 2009 1:07 pm

    A wage cap would hurt the league though. Because if they do implement one, it will almost certainly be as a ratio of the club's turnover. So for every club, regardless of size, they may lose a player to an equivalent Spanish or Italian club because they don't have room in their budget for wages, whereas right now the money is a strength for the English clubs when trying to attract players.
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    Post by Sgoater1 Sun May 17, 2009 2:44 pm

    It doesnt bother me... Ireland, SWP, Richards, Onuoha, Johnson, Hart, Evans, Sturridge, Logan and Etuhu have all played for the first team this season.
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    Post by debaser Sun May 17, 2009 3:14 pm

    kas wrote:A wage cap would hurt the league though. Because if they do implement one, it will almost certainly be as a ratio of the club's turnover. So for every club, regardless of size, they may lose a player to an equivalent Spanish or Italian club because they don't have room in their budget for wages, whereas right now the money is a strength for the English clubs when trying to attract players.
    Well, I'd like to see wage cap introduced for all clubs in Europe. In theory, could level the field a bit, but very difficult to put in practice

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