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    Post by Kimbo Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:04 pm

    110% wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:Great player, seems to have generated a lot of misplaced hatred. Surely he can't be blamed for clubs paying him a lot of money, or for the moves he made.

    The liverpool management allowed him to run down his contract so he could leave cheaply to madrid, and the newcastle management made him such a big offer that no-one else would match it.

    It is nice though that he can unite Kimbo and Luis for once, although they could probably argue about who has the most misplaced hatred tongue

    He put in no effort here, even when we were fighting relegation you could see he was just waiting for his contract to be up. For a professional on over 100k a week to put in performances that lazy was embarrassing. Plus there is that thing of spending time out injured and then suddenly being fit for England. Rolling Eyes

    He was never known for being a hard worker, he was there to score goals and still had a pretty decent striker rate, despite playing deeper than (the goal hanger position) he was used to. It's clear with your mention of "over 100k a week", that the money is a big issue to to you, but it was your management who paid him that, so it is their fault for firstly buying an injury prone player and then paying him a shit load of money (ie making an offer that no-one would match), and then letting him see out his contract. It really isn't the player's fault, as we would all do the same.
    Didn't you get about 10 million in compensation from the FA for him being injured on world cup duty (4 seasons means about 200 weeks, so that works out at about 50k a week)? Take that off his "100k a week", do you feel any better?

    Now think about all those Owen shirts you sold in Asia Wink

    Ofcourse money is an issue, he was being paid that much and couldn't even be bothered to live in the area, he flew in from chester or wherever the fuck he lives on a helicopter and then fucked off in the afternoon. In all his time at the club he showed no commitment on or off the field, even after some idiot decided to make him captain. Ofcourse we shouldn't have thrown that much money at him, but you should expect some professionalism atleast in return. You can't expect us to like or admire a total fraud of a footballer.
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    Post by 110% Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:44 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:Great player, seems to have generated a lot of misplaced hatred. Surely he can't be blamed for clubs paying him a lot of money, or for the moves he made.

    The liverpool management allowed him to run down his contract so he could leave cheaply to madrid, and the newcastle management made him such a big offer that no-one else would match it.

    It is nice though that he can unite Kimbo and Luis for once, although they could probably argue about who has the most misplaced hatred tongue

    He put in no effort here, even when we were fighting relegation you could see he was just waiting for his contract to be up. For a professional on over 100k a week to put in performances that lazy was embarrassing. Plus there is that thing of spending time out injured and then suddenly being fit for England. Rolling Eyes

    He was never known for being a hard worker, he was there to score goals and still had a pretty decent striker rate, despite playing deeper than (the goal hanger position) he was used to. It's clear with your mention of "over 100k a week", that the money is a big issue to to you, but it was your management who paid him that, so it is their fault for firstly buying an injury prone player and then paying him a shit load of money (ie making an offer that no-one would match), and then letting him see out his contract. It really isn't the player's fault, as we would all do the same.
    Didn't you get about 10 million in compensation from the FA for him being injured on world cup duty (4 seasons means about 200 weeks, so that works out at about 50k a week)? Take that off his "100k a week", do you feel any better?

    Now think about all those Owen shirts you sold in Asia Wink

    Ofcourse money is an issue, he was being paid that much and couldn't even be bothered to live in the area, he flew in from chester or wherever the fuck he lives on a helicopter and then fucked off in the afternoon. In all his time at the club he showed no commitment on or off the field, even after some idiot decided to make him captain. Ofcourse we shouldn't have thrown that much money at him, but you should expect some professionalism atleast in return. You can't expect us to like or admire a total fraud of a footballer.

    Professionalism? Was he constantly late for training? Was he fighting with team mates? Did he get fat? Travelling by helicopter doesn't make someone unprofessional. Not living nearby was not great but if he got to work on time what did it matter, lots of people commute. Now it just looks like your looking for excuses to dislike him Wink.

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    Post by Kimbo Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:48 pm

    110% wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:Great player, seems to have generated a lot of misplaced hatred. Surely he can't be blamed for clubs paying him a lot of money, or for the moves he made.

    The liverpool management allowed him to run down his contract so he could leave cheaply to madrid, and the newcastle management made him such a big offer that no-one else would match it.

    It is nice though that he can unite Kimbo and Luis for once, although they could probably argue about who has the most misplaced hatred tongue

    He put in no effort here, even when we were fighting relegation you could see he was just waiting for his contract to be up. For a professional on over 100k a week to put in performances that lazy was embarrassing. Plus there is that thing of spending time out injured and then suddenly being fit for England. Rolling Eyes

    He was never known for being a hard worker, he was there to score goals and still had a pretty decent striker rate, despite playing deeper than (the goal hanger position) he was used to. It's clear with your mention of "over 100k a week", that the money is a big issue to to you, but it was your management who paid him that, so it is their fault for firstly buying an injury prone player and then paying him a shit load of money (ie making an offer that no-one would match), and then letting him see out his contract. It really isn't the player's fault, as we would all do the same.
    Didn't you get about 10 million in compensation from the FA for him being injured on world cup duty (4 seasons means about 200 weeks, so that works out at about 50k a week)? Take that off his "100k a week", do you feel any better?

    Now think about all those Owen shirts you sold in Asia Wink

    Ofcourse money is an issue, he was being paid that much and couldn't even be bothered to live in the area, he flew in from chester or wherever the fuck he lives on a helicopter and then fucked off in the afternoon. In all his time at the club he showed no commitment on or off the field, even after some idiot decided to make him captain. Ofcourse we shouldn't have thrown that much money at him, but you should expect some professionalism atleast in return. You can't expect us to like or admire a total fraud of a footballer.

    Professionalism? Was he constantly late for training? Was he fighting with team mates? Did he get fat? Travelling by helicopter doesn't make someone unprofessional. Not living nearby was not great but if he got to work on time what did it matter, lots of people commute. Now it just looks like your looking for excuses to dislike him Wink.


    Lack of effort and little interest in playing. We were a team for him to train with so he could be fit for England. Apathy is the last thing you want from a sportsman, and the word sums up Owens attitude ever since he came back from Madrid.

    Maybe you should tell me why we should like him?
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    Post by 110% Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:03 pm

    I am not saying you should like him, you should be apathetic towards him Very Happy

    Newcastle bought an injury-plagued player, who had little left of the qualities that made him a great player, the speed, acceleration etc, and then he had even more injuries. He still scored more goals than shola amoebi Wink. The fualt is 100% with the management for buying him and for what they paid him.

    You saw his performances for manu later, he had nothing left to give, so it was not a lack of effort, the injuries destroyed him.

    I'm glad at least that you only paid 2 million for Haidara and he's not on 100,000 a week, otherwise if he doesn't recover from his injury you'll be blaming him for not putting in enough effort.
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    Post by Kimbo Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 pm

    110% wrote:I am not saying you should like him, you should be apathetic towards him Very Happy

    Newcastle bought an injury-plagued player, who had little left of the qualities that made him a great player, the speed, acceleration etc, and then he had even more injuries. He still scored more goals than shola amoebi Wink. The fualt is 100% with the management for buying him and for what they paid him.

    You saw his performances for manu later, he had nothing left to give, so it was not a lack of effort, the injuries destroyed him.

    I'm glad at least that you only paid 2 million for Haidara and he's not on 100,000 a week, otherwise if he doesn't recover from his injury you'll be blaming him for not putting in enough effort.

    How do you explain Owen making himself fit for England games when he was too injured to play for Newcastle? The world cup wasn't the only occasion that that happened. Also I don't recall anyone saying Owen was past it at Madrid.
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    Post by 110% Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:40 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:I am not saying you should like him, you should be apathetic towards him Very Happy

    Newcastle bought an injury-plagued player, who had little left of the qualities that made him a great player, the speed, acceleration etc, and then he had even more injuries. He still scored more goals than shola amoebi Wink. The fualt is 100% with the management for buying him and for what they paid him.

    You saw his performances for manu later, he had nothing left to give, so it was not a lack of effort, the injuries destroyed him.

    I'm glad at least that you only paid 2 million for Haidara and he's not on 100,000 a week, otherwise if he doesn't recover from his injury you'll be blaming him for not putting in enough effort.

    How do you explain Owen making himself fit for England games when he was too injured to play for Newcastle? The world cup wasn't the only occasion that that happened. Also I don't recall anyone saying Owen was past it at Madrid.

    You have to be more specific, which games?

    As for being injury prone, he already was at liverpool, he couldn't get injured sitting on the sub bench at madrid Wink
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    Post by Kimbo Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:47 pm

    110% wrote:
    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:I am not saying you should like him, you should be apathetic towards him Very Happy

    Newcastle bought an injury-plagued player, who had little left of the qualities that made him a great player, the speed, acceleration etc, and then he had even more injuries. He still scored more goals than shola amoebi Wink. The fualt is 100% with the management for buying him and for what they paid him.

    You saw his performances for manu later, he had nothing left to give, so it was not a lack of effort, the injuries destroyed him.

    I'm glad at least that you only paid 2 million for Haidara and he's not on 100,000 a week, otherwise if he doesn't recover from his injury you'll be blaming him for not putting in enough effort.

    How do you explain Owen making himself fit for England games when he was too injured to play for Newcastle? The world cup wasn't the only occasion that that happened. Also I don't recall anyone saying Owen was past it at Madrid.

    You have to be more specific, which games?

    As for being injury prone, he already was at liverpool, he couldn't get injured sitting on the sub bench at madrid Wink

    I can't be specific, it was a long time ago.

    It seems that by your logic players should never be disliked, the manager or chairman should get 100% of the hate for giving them the contract? scratch
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    Post by Murray Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:37 pm

    Michael Owen's steady decline seems inevitable with hindsight

    Posted by Gabriele Marcotti

    You sort of feel that, one day, he'll be the answer to a trivia
    question. Who was the Premier League's top goal scorer twice before his
    20th birthday and never achieved the feat again?


    Or, who won the Ballon d'Or in 2001 but then never won anything the
    rest of his career, except for two league cups and a Premier League
    title in a season in which he contributed just 238 minutes?


    Or who is the only England player to have scored in four major
    tournaments, despite making his last appearance for his country at age
    28?


    Michael Owen announced his retirement on Tuesday, prompting
    reflection on one of the more bizarre and -- with hindsight --
    mismanaged tenures in the game.


    The stock answer is that injuries stopped Owen from maintaining and
    building on what looked like an ascent into footballing lore. But that
    only tells part of the story of how someone who could break into the
    Liverpool first team at 17 and be his club's top goal scorer in each of
    his seven full seasons at Anfield could end up getting booed on his
    return to Merseyside. Or how he could end up with 131 top-flight goals
    in his first eight years as a professional and then notch just 32 in his
    next seven and a half seasons.


    In Owen's case, you can't blame drinking or partying or even a lack
    of professionalism. By all accounts, except for a penchant for
    horse-racing and helicopters, he was the consummate pro, to the point
    where his image ranged from the bland to the nerdy.


    Injuries did slow him down and the roots of that may have been in the
    way he was handled at youth level and in his first years at the club. He
    had a lot of miles on the clock at an early age and you wonder if his
    body received the physical attention it might have received today or,
    indeed, at another club.


    Another issue, quite plainly, seems to be coaching-related. Owen was
    blessed with quickness and acceleration and his game never really
    progressed beyond that. A thought echoed by both coaches at Real Madrid
    and with England was that his movement as a striker was never quite as
    good as it should have been. All those runs off the ball, coming short,
    going wide, opening channels and drawing defenders -- it was never a
    feature of his game, possibly because it was never taught.


    He also didn't seem to have the "eye for goal," that mysterious
    ability to predict where the ball was going to go or how play was going
    to unfold. It's a trait that, probably, can't be taught but that so many
    of the great goal scorers share, from Radamel Falcao to Robbie Fowler,
    from Pippo Inzaghi to Ruud Van Nistelrooy. If you get on the end of
    chances regularly, you multiply your opportunities to score. Even when
    he was scoring a lot, it felt that Owen worked harder than other to get
    his shot off, that he rarely simply "popped up" the way some of the
    aforementioned "natural goal scorers" did.


    It blends in to another flaw: vision. Owen was never a great passer or
    provider, not because he was necessarily selfish (most goal scorers need
    to be, to some degree) but because it simply wasn't a part of his game.
    His touch was good, but not exceptional, he had an awareness of where
    the goal was, but not always where his teammates were or, crucially
    where they might be.


    There were two areas where he did excel and, with hindsight, he was
    perhaps over-reliant on them. One was his absurd pace, which often
    papered over cracks in his game. For a guy with such quick feet, you
    would have thought he'd have developed enough trickery to dribble or
    beat opponents with a body feint or a swerve, the kinds of technical
    things you maintain with age. Instead, he beat players in the most basic
    way: knock the ball past them, chase after it and outrun them. While he
    had his youth and his speed, it worked a charm; once he lost it, he
    didn't have enough of a Plan B.


    The other quality was his finishing. Which was, simply put, dead-eye
    stuff. He never seemed flustered, he never rushed a shot, he usually
    struck the ball cleanly. That, perhaps, is the one characteristic he
    possesses even today. The problem, though, is that great finishing isn't
    enough if you no longer can get into goal-scoring positions and receive
    the ball with a chance to shoot.


    One theory doing the rounds is that, as a kid, Owen fell victim to
    coaches who valued results over development. It was far easier to tell
    him to play on the shoulder of the last defender and get someone to just
    lump the ball into space for him to run on to than to work with him so
    he could develop a well-rounded game. This allowed him to score lots of
    goals and it allowed his youth coaches to look extremely clever because
    they got results. It didn't do too much for him though when he got into
    the first team.


    And, in fact, when he did break into Liverpool, his managers -- Roy
    Evans and then Gerard Houllier -- seem to ride his strengths rather than
    work on his weaknesses. They may have had a valid excuse -- they needed
    points straight away, they weren't there to teach him -- and in the
    short run it may have worked. But the deficiencies were clear, even at
    the England level. Indeed, when you consider that for several years he
    overlapped with Alan Shearer in his pomp and the pair never seemed to
    forge a reliable partnership it becomes pretty obvious that something
    was wrong.


    At the same time, he made some decisions that -- again with the
    benefit of hindsight -- he might have handled differently. Despite
    coming through the ranks at Liverpool, he never fully developed a
    rapport with the fan base in the way the likes of Fowler, Steven Gerrard
    or Jamie Carragher did. He seemed detached, often preoccupied with
    something else. When he did speak out, he felt plastic and corporate.


    He didn't help matters when he let his contract run down, basically
    forcing Liverpool to sell him to Real Madrid for a cut-price $11 million
    in the summer of 2004, because he only had a year left on his deal. At
    Real, he scored 13 goals, many of them in garbage-time, either after
    coming on as a sub or as a late score in a blowout.


    At the end of the season, with Real ready to move him on, he made
    another huge blunder. He opted for Newcastle, the only club willing to
    honor his enormous contract. This was a side with a passionate fanbase,
    but also one which had finished 14th the year before and where
    overspending and mismanagement were already rife. The fact that he
    never seemed to embrace the northeast of England did not help. The
    stories of him commuting by helicopter may have been untrue, but what is
    true is that he often made a four hour round trip commute from his home
    in Cheshire. Injuries and a bad team -- Newcastle were relegated in
    2008-09 -- did the rest.


    That summer he put out a DVD highlight his skills as a way of
    marketing himself to prospective employers. It felt rather pathetic.


    Manchester United gave three seasons on a pay-as-you-play deal and
    he moved through Old Trafford like a ghost, making just six league
    starts. Then came this year's epilogue, at Stoke, where he has played a
    grand total of 70 league minutes.


    He's now trying to carve out some kind of media career and has
    started a blog, though, frankly, he comes across as distant and anodyne.
    A source close to him I spoke to blames the fact that he doesn't have a
    "natural fan base" at any club, despite having played for three of the
    most popular in England. He claims Liverpool fans resent him (also
    because some see him as being responsible for Fowler's demise),
    Newcastle fans felt cold-shouldered by him and to United supporters he
    was about as relevant as Gabriel Obertan. If only Owen had been marketed
    better, he says.


    But maybe that was part of the problem off the pitch. Too often he
    felt like someone who was being "marketed" and "packaged" as a
    superstar. That, added to his injuries and his one-dimensional nature on
    the pitch -- and his lack of improvement from the time he was 18 --
    ensure you're left wondering what might have been.


    For my part, I chose to remember him at his finest. I recall a game
    in Toulouse, England versus Romania, at the 1998 World Cup. With England
    1-0 down, 18-year-old Owen came on and, in the space of 18 minutes, hit
    the post and notched the equalizer. Romania still won, 2-1, thanks to a
    dazzling run by Dan Petrescu, but I can still hear the words of a
    now-departed veteran journalist sitting next to me in the press box.


    This was a grizzled, grumpy old ink-stained wretch. A guy who tended
    to bark rather than speak. A man who had been to every World Cup since
    1958.


    "You know I don't like this game anymore, it's just a job and every
    year I feel like retiring," he said afterward, taking a drag from a
    cigarette. "But then I see something like this kid Owen and my heart
    warms again. Just like it did in 1958 when I saw Pele."


    His heart was, no doubt, warmed a few days later, when Owen scored
    that brilliant goal against Argentina. Sadly, it wasn't long thereafter
    that his career began to dip and continued to do so until the present.


    http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/4338?cc=5739#
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    Post by Bashmachkin Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:43 pm

    If Owen didn't feign injury for Newcastle before playing games for England, then he certainly spent the first chunk of his career with us timing his returns from injury in order to reach full fitness for England duty. That annoyed Newcastle fans; and meant he received a portion of the ensuing anger when he suffered serious injury playing for England. His injuries over a two-year spell effectively took him out of the England picture; finally fit, he had six good months playing under Keegan; but then throughout our relegation season he was entirely disinterested in playing for us, showing a horrible lack of effort on the pitch.

    It isn't Owen's 'fault' that we paid him so much. Obviously in hindsight we paid too much for him, and paid him wages well beyond his worth - but at the time of his signing, I think people generally thought he still had a lot to give; that his time with Madrid hadn't been successful, but hadn't been an unmitigated disaster (my recollection is that, whether this correlated with the impression in Spain, the impression in England was he often looked decent when appearing for Madrid, but suffered owing to a lack of opportunities); and we were looking for a top forward to replace Shearer. Owen's abject personality perhaps made him a poor replacement for Shearer regardless of his footballing abilities. Whatever, Newcastle fans didn't come to despise Owen because of his wage: the impulse was his lack of effort on the pitch, the impression he was only about to take from the club, and with those feelings established certainly then it becomes particularly upsetting that so much money is going on such a poorly performing and unappreciative player.

    I don't entirely agree with Gabriele Marcotti's assessment above; or at least, the Owen he describes isn't the one I recall at Newcastle. I thought that what Marcotti calls Owen's 'eye for goal' - a poor phrase for what he seeks to describe by it - essentially Owen's sense for goalscoring positions - was one of his strengths for us; his finishing a relative and increasing weakness. I think he became a better footballer, better technically, at Madrid. He was best for us when Keegan utilised him behind two strikers in Viduka and Martins: without his pace, and lacking strength, he wasn't viable as a striker, but was patient and capable enough to add to the build-up play, and could arrive in the box to get on the end of crosses or loose balls. Playing him deeper also encouraged his involvement. When he was allowed to play as a striker, it was easier for him to stand about doing nothing.

    I think Owen could have had a decent enough footballing career after leaving us playing for a mid-to-low-table Premier League side predominantly in a position behind a striker or strike pair (I appreciate few clubs in recent times have tended to play someone behind a front two). Just as he focused on England after joining us, Owen instead went to sit on the bench at Manchester United, because he thought that he, and his chums in the media, could wrangle that in such a way so as to make him appear significant, still a top player, a sort of big-shot. He's someone I thoroughly dislike for his time at Newcastle; and I do slightly lament that his career wasn't ended for him by the sort of tackle he well deserves.
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    Post by Bashmachkin Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:48 pm

    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:55 pm

    I love that guy waving his money. lol!


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    Post by 110% Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:45 pm

    Newcastle fans can hate Owen if they want, it's just my opinion that the hate is misplaced.

    After all the comments on his salary and professionalism which couldn't be justified, we've arrived at you hating him for a subjective lack of effort, obviously because after his move to manu he suddenly put in a lot more effort? Maybe newcastle fans' expectations were were just too high Wink

    Liverpool fans hate Owen for leaving cheaply for madrid. Personally I commend Owen for being the bigger man. He doesn't have a bad word to say about Liverpool or Newcastle, despite firstly Liverpool ruining his career by playing him too much in his youth, and later Newcastle ruining his life Wink, for making such a big offer to Madrid that he was left without any options when he wanted to return to England.
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    Post by Kimbo Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:00 pm

    110% wrote:Newcastle fans can hate Owen if they want, it's just my opinion that the hate is misplaced.

    After all the comments on his salary and professionalism which couldn't be justified, we've arrived at you hating him for a subjective lack of effort, obviously because after his move to manu he suddenly put in a lot more effort? Maybe newcastle fans' expectations were were just too high Wink

    Liverpool fans hate Owen for leaving cheaply for madrid. Personally I commend Owen for being the bigger man. He doesn't have a bad word to say about Liverpool or Newcastle, despite firstly Liverpool ruining his career by playing him too much in his youth, and later Newcastle ruining his life Wink, for making such a big offer to Madrid that he was left without any options when he wanted to return to England.

    Lack of effort is unprofessional, and it may be subjective, but it's a view shared by pretty much everyone that watched him for us. <Ale>
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    Post by 110% Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:15 pm

    Kimbo wrote:
    110% wrote:Newcastle fans can hate Owen if they want, it's just my opinion that the hate is misplaced.

    After all the comments on his salary and professionalism which couldn't be justified, we've arrived at you hating him for a subjective lack of effort, obviously because after his move to manu he suddenly put in a lot more effort? Maybe newcastle fans' expectations were were just too high Wink

    Liverpool fans hate Owen for leaving cheaply for madrid. Personally I commend Owen for being the bigger man. He doesn't have a bad word to say about Liverpool or Newcastle, despite firstly Liverpool ruining his career by playing him too much in his youth, and later Newcastle ruining his life Wink, for making such a big offer to Madrid that he was left without any options when he wanted to return to England.

    Lack of effort is unprofessional, and it may be subjective, but it's a view shared by pretty much everyone that watched him for us. <Ale>

    A group of fans sharing the same view can't ever be wrong Whistle
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    Post by christmasborocooper Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:53 pm

    He was pretty lazy to be honest.
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    Post by Luis Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:26 pm

    I don't hate Owen I just find him pretty irrelevant. You can tell he still reckons he's one of the best forwards around and too good for lower league clubs. If any Liverpool fans do hate him it's not because he went to Madrid but because he went to United which was a slap in the face but then he loves grabbing money and pretending he still plays top flight.
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:26 pm

    Still one of the greatest things i've ever seen.

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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:36 pm

    the amazing thing is it worked. gona do myself one fancy the managers job at spearmint rhino,look it up nice establishment ; )
    Kimbo
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    Post by Kimbo Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:43 pm

    Ok Glenn
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    Post by Kimbo Thu May 09, 2013 7:03 pm

    This c**t is going to be co-commentator for BT. Who makes these decisions? lol!
    Luis
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    Post by Luis Thu May 09, 2013 7:08 pm

    Kimbo wrote:This c**t is going to be co-commentator for BT. Who makes these decisions? lol!

    Along with Ferdinand and Tim Lovejoy Doh
    christmasborocooper
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    Post by christmasborocooper Thu May 09, 2013 8:03 pm

    Tim Lovejoy?!

    Wow... Welcome to the late 90s...

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