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Football Genius wrote:Firstly BoBo i'm not trying to reason with you that Rio Ferdinand is a world class centre back, primarily because the term world class is not a fixed definition.
Well i only used the term because i assumed that a top 5 CB would qualify as being WC.
With regards to Silvestre for a period of time at the turn of this decade he was a decent centre back, the notion that Silvestre has and always was a poor player is a myth. He was never a guaranteed member of the first x11 as Rio is, so to use him as a comparitive example is like comparing Vegatables and Fruits, both provide different benefits. Infact if you wanted to use Silvestre as an example with Ferdinand perhaps longetivity would be the more appropriate comparison, because where Silvestre's career has nosedived with time, Ferdinand is still playing regular first team football for the English and World Champions, and a regular for his country.
I never claimed Silvestre was poor. I know that he was average, but using your reasoning, one can argue how good Silvetre was because of the titles he won with Man Utd. Silvestre played in over 30 games in each of his seasons for Man Utd up until 2006.
I'm not comparing their careers now, Silvestre is older and had a major injury which he never fully recovered from.
As for your dismissive stance that Ferdinand is but one player of a successful team, you are right... however my point is simple all the components of a team are important, and in a successful team all components have to deliver performance wise on a consistant basis otherwise the end result would be they were not successful...
Not necessarily. There are usually some weak links in succesful sides. They are just one player though, and the rest of the team can make up for it.
Useing Manchester United as a example, as that is the club hes played over 200 games for, they are an attacking team who do offer a lot of space for the opposition to exploit unlike Chelsea for example who have Essien to offer protection, unlike Liverpool who have Mascherano, which would imply that if you have a soft belly i.e if you defence isn't organised, solid and defensively sound eventually over the course of 200 games you will get found out.
It's not just a matter of players, more the team's mentality. You're correct that Man Utd don't have a natural holding midfielder when Hargreaves is injured, but they do have Scholes and Carrick sitting infront of the defence, plus workhorses like Fletcher and Park to help out. The team plays more of a cat and mouse style of football and is a far cry form the united team of the late 90s and early 2000 in terms of attacking mentality.
Now with regards to getting 'found out' i've offered you many examples of why Ferdinand is held in such high regard, how about you reciprocate that and provide me with consistant evidence i.e performances, failings during many games to substantiate your opinion. The interesting thing is BoBo i know exactly what evidence you'll use, perhaps 3 or 4 incidents, which in all fairness for a player who has played over 500 games for club and country is pretty damn good wouldn't you say? After all players are human beings, whom are not perfect - mistakes will inevitably happen, however the measure is not what mistakes are made however how many and how regularly... again that word BoBo consistancy, and it is precisely in that respect that Rio Ferdinand has excelled because for 10 years he has been at the pincacle of footballs elite, representing his club as an instrumental (yes he is the captain BoBo, no squad member) member of the squad, such is his quality held in high regard the most successful manager in the history of english football Sir Alex Fergurson doesn't believe Rio requires 'carrying' infact he issues the player with the armband to carry his team when required - so quite the opposite really, wouldn't you agree?
Well lets take a look shall we.
- was caught on the wrong side of the striker against Ukraine, resulting in his keeper being sent off.
- played a pass straight to Bellamy, and then got completely burnt by the same player resulting in a goal.
- played a pass straight to a dutch player, resulting in a goal.
- Completely lost Messi for his goal in the CL final, instead he was just ball watching (he did the same thing when Crespo scored against him).
- Got turned inside out by Henry, who was then left one on one with the keeper and should've scored.
- was caught flat footed against Fulham, resulting in their first goal i think it was.
These are just from this season and the tail end of the last season, and these are just the major mistakes. Hardly what you expect top 5 CB is it?
He is only the captain because he's the first team regular woh has been at the club the longest. It doesn't mean he is carrying the side.
