Uruguay v Argentina

The international match of 2009 (so far) merits it own thread. A true KO match between neighbours with great footy history.

Kick s off at midnight in the UK & 01.00 at night in the CET zone.

Paddypower says:

Uruguay win 6/4
Draw 11/5
Argentina win 17/10

Mind you, a draw, could mean Ecuadior snatches 4th spot if they can get an away win v already qualified Chile.

Though it would be funny if Argentina lost, it would be so weird to have a world cup without them, so ultimately I'd hope both of these go through (Ecuador are a bit dull at world cups, and don't hold out much excitement for Honduras either).

This could be one of those epic games where both sides are trying to out-bluff each other based on the score in Chile, rather than play football and actually try to win the match outright.

Yep all the right conditions for an epic match. Really looking forward to this one.

debaser wrote:Though it would be funny if Argentina lost, it would be so weird to have a world cup without them, so ultimately I'd hope both of these go through (Ecuador are a bit dull at world cups, and don't hold out much excitement for Honduras either).

They take their football very seriously there. They go to war if they don't get the right result.

that was the only war that ever made sense.

Alle ballen op Suarez !!!

Great game in store. However looking at the way Argentina were the other day i just cant see past a Uruguay victory. So maybe the big game will be Chile v Ecuador. Hopefully the cokehead will start with Palermo after his goal.

What's the relation between Chile and Argentina/Uruguay/Ecuador ?

Is there a chance they'll throw the game because they've qualified already and can help some friends/hinder enemies ?

Well Bielsa is in charge of Chile, and after the 2002 fiasco, I can't see him throwing the game, not unless he habours any hope of setting foot in Argentina again. In any case, I really can't see Ecuador getting anything in Santiago but we will see. As for any rivalry between Argentina/Chile, I don't really know, certainly nothing in comparison to Argentina/Uruguay.

What a game it will be though, fantastic spectacle for those who are there. Feel for the Argie players, the Uruguayan fans will be baying for blood. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple of red cards.

Apparently Maradona is set to drop Aimar for the match against Uruguay to make room for Veron.

Well Chile and Argentina arent the best friends if I remember correctly, Chile even helped Britain during the falkland war.

They also arent best friends with Peru and Bolivia since Chile gave them a can of whoopass in some war ages ago.

Jaime wrote:Apparently Maradona is set to drop Aimar for the match against Uruguay to make room for Veron.

You can't make this stuff up, the guy really is crazy.

kas wrote:

Jaime wrote:Apparently Maradona is set to drop Aimar for the match against Uruguay to make room for Veron.

You can't make this stuff up, the guy really is crazy.

I know, it really is very amusing. It's a bad advert for drug abuse really.

Axeslammer wrote:What's the relation between Chile and Argentina/Uruguay/Ecuador ?

Is there a chance they'll throw the game because they've qualified already and can help some friends/hinder enemies ?

Well since you asked Argentina and Chile used to be allies against the Spanish during the liberation wars of the early nineteenth century. Chile's Liberation leader Bernardo O'Higgins (I'm not making up the name) deferred to the leadership of Jose de San Martin, but after guiding troops over the Andes to surprise his enemies - a feat compared to Hanibal's elephants over the Alps - de San Martin failed to press his advantage.

The founder of the Chilean navy Thomas Cochrane (a veteran of the Napoleonic wars, MP and survivor of debtors prison, sailed the fleet back and went to Brazil to participate in the independence wars there, which was led by the prince of Portugal - he was later overthrown, returned to Portugal and became king. The Portuguese monarchy decamped to Brazil wit the help of the British to keep them out of Napoleon's hands. After his assistance in Brazil, Cochrane made a complete pigs ear of the Greek War of independence, which despite the distance was supported by revolutionary Haiti, but I digress.

Simon Bolivar outmanoeuvred de San Martin and most of South America up to Panama was united under him. Chile and Argentina were not and Paraguay was ruled by the first of many dictators Francia, who kept Uruguay's liberation leader Jose Artigas hostage until his death. In Uruguay's war of independence Brazil and Argentina opposed each other and the Uruguayan wars coincided with the rise and fall and rise of dictatorships in Argentina - the worst being that of Juan Manuel de Rosas - whom de San Martin mistook for a freedom fighter. De San Martin retired from politics early.

Fast forward more than a century and the dictators Galtieri and Pinochet brought their countries to the brink of war over the Falklands/Malvinas as Chile supported Thatcher. Very little love lost between Chile/Argentina and Argentina/Uruguay for well over a century. Their football teams reflect their history.

Uruguay's original objective before last round of matches was to reach 5th place. They got that one. They will play Argentina listening to the Chile-Ecuador match score obviously. They will both be happy with a draw as long as Ecuador do not beat Chile.

I don't see Ecuador beating Chile, but them Ecuadorians are hurting. They may go into Chile with a "it's us against the world" mentality and crashing the party. The ref in their Uruguay match fucked them over not calling a penalty for them, and calling a penalty for Uruguay in the last minute for a dive.

Aimar played well, but he disappeared as the game got hotter and hotter in the second half with Perú ultimately bossing the midfield pegging the Argies against their goal. Vargas and Roberto Palacios have said that some Argies (it seems Mascherano and Aimar) begged them to stop running, to let them win because of their critical situation of getting KO.

The game against Uruguay will be just as intense, and maybe Maradona trusts Verón's experience and steel in these circumstances.

The Uruguayans should also keep in mind that they do not match so well against Honduras. So maybe they just ought to take care of business at home against Argentina while they can. It's gonna be tough to beat them, but they've got Honduras if they don't. And, Honduras will be a handful for them. Just saying.

Setanta should have got you to advertise the acrrington v stevenage games mate, might not have gone bust then

L r dd wrote:Setanta should have got you to advertise the acrrington v stevenage games mate, might not have gone bust then

What do they produce? I fucking sell it for them!

Puro wrote:Uruguay's original objective before last round of matches was to reach 5th place. They got that one. They will play Argentina listening to the Chile-Ecuador match score obviously. They will both be happy with a draw as long as Ecuador do not beat Chile.

I don't see Ecuador beating Chile, but them Ecuadorians are hurting. They may go into Chile with a "it's us against the world" mentality and crashing the party. The ref in their Uruguay match fucked them over not calling a penalty for them, and calling a penalty for Uruguay in the last minute for a dive.

Aimar played well, but he disappeared as the game got hotter and hotter in the second half with Perú ultimately bossing the midfield pegging the Argies against their goal. Vargas and Roberto Palacios have said that some Argies (it seems Mascherano and Aimar) begged them to stop running, to let them win because of their critical situation of getting KO.
The game against Uruguay will be just as intense, and maybe Maradona trusts Verón's experience and steel in these circumstances.

The Uruguayans should also keep in mind that they do not match so well against Honduras. So maybe they just ought to take care of business at home against Argentina while they can. It's gonna be tough to beat them, but they've got Honduras if they don't. And, Honduras will be a handful for them. Just saying.

Yea right

Well, I don't know if Mascherano really asked it or not but Vargas is really claiming that they did.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/vargas-argentinos-nos-pedian-corriesemos/dasftb/20091012dasdasftb_28/Tes

EMP wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:What's the relation between Chile and Argentina/Uruguay/Ecuador ?

Is there a chance they'll throw the game because they've qualified already and can help some friends/hinder enemies ?

Well since you asked Argentina and Chile used to be allies against the Spanish during the liberation wars of the early nineteenth century. Chile's Liberation leader Bernardo O'Higgins (I'm not making up the name)

O'Higgins getting raped by Mati Fernandez...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY7gzBB0vY8



I'd always hoped that Chevanton was going to put all his problems behind him and go on loan in the summer.

He'd then play his way into the national team, replace Forlan with the scores level and hit a trade mark free-kick in stoppage time to take Uruguay to South Africa

Anyhow, I hope Uruguay win - they are to football what Athens is to The Olympics.

Sky blue and white could be anyone from Man City to Lazio, to Argentina but when you see the sky blue and black you know who you're dealing with.

They are always my team of choice (along with Czech Rep) when England aren't competing.

...and I still believe Chevanton can play his way into the squad should they make it.

Jaime wrote:Well, I don't know if Mascherano really asked it or not but Vargas is really claiming that they did.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/vargas-argentinos-nos-pedian-corriesemos/dasftb/20091012dasdasftb_28/Tes

Don't see why he'd lie. Argies seem like cowards in that respect. No offence Puro but if they kept going i think they could have won 3-0 but they just retreated and hoped the match would end.

It would be a TRAVESTY if the World's best player wasn't at the World Cup next year




























VAMOS HONDURAS!!

L r dd wrote:

Jaime wrote:Well, I don't know if Mascherano really asked it or not but Vargas is really claiming that they did.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/vargas-argentinos-nos-pedian-corriesemos/dasftb/20091012dasdasftb_28/Tes

Don't see why he'd lie. Argies seem like cowards in that respect. No offence Puro but if they kept going i think they could have won 3-0 but they just retreated and hoped the match would end.

Your opinion is valid and that probably comes from the vision you had of the first 45m in which it was clear Del Solar was just soaking up the Argie pressure, take their best punches and see if they can take our punches in the second half. Sort of a rope-a-dope that Muhammad Ali used against George Foreman in their classic fight.

If you recall, it was Perú who came out fighting in second half, we got the first corner kick, first shot on goal, Vargas hit the crossbar after a Solano corner kick...

Argentina were losing the midfield battle. To the optic of many it may have seem that they intentionally retreated hoping to counter, but I know my Argies, they don't retreat ESPECIALLY in their own house. Perú PEGGED THEM against their own goal because they had lost the midfield to us.

This was helped because Aimar was getting nervous, maybe the Peruvian attacks got to him, nobody knows, but we were controlling the match in the second half. Also the fact that we were always going in triangles 2 on 1 against them throughout the pitch. They had no comeback to Del Solar's second half scheme.

The ref also saw that and started to call EVERYTHING for the Argies, every 50/50 ball went to them giving them a breather so to speak. If you see the midfield battle, Del Solar made sure it was always 2 against 1, and Maradona could do nothing about it.

Their goal came from a hopeful hoof that landed on an offsides Palermo.

What has Darius Vassell got to do with anything 0trick?

Kimbo wrote:What has Darius Vassell got to do with anything 0trick?

Racialist

Puro wrote:

L r dd wrote:

Jaime wrote:Well, I don't know if Mascherano really asked it or not but Vargas is really claiming that they did.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/vargas-argentinos-nos-pedian-corriesemos/dasftb/20091012dasdasftb_28/Tes

Don't see why he'd lie. Argies seem like cowards in that respect. No offence Puro but if they kept going i think they could have won 3-0 but they just retreated and hoped the match would end.

To the optic of many it may have seem that they intentionally retreated hoping to counter, but I know my Argies, they don't retreat ESPECIALLY in their own house.

They did retreat against the British on the Falklands..then again that is not their own house or was it???

If they didnt have Maradonna, it would have been the usual 4-0 or something. I do agree with you that the Palermo goal was offside!

Puro wrote:

L r dd wrote:

Jaime wrote:Well, I don't know if Mascherano really asked it or not but Vargas is really claiming that they did.

http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/vargas-argentinos-nos-pedian-corriesemos/dasftb/20091012dasdasftb_28/Tes

Don't see why he'd lie. Argies seem like cowards in that respect. No offence Puro but if they kept going i think they could have won 3-0 but they just retreated and hoped the match would end.

Your opinion is valid and that probably comes from the vision you had of the first 45m in which it was clear Del Solar was just soaking up the Argie pressure, take their best punches and see if they can take our punches in the second half. Sort of a rope-a-dope that Muhammad Ali used against George Foreman in their classic fight.

If you recall, it was Perú who came out fighting in second half, we got the first corner kick, first shot on goal, Vargas hit the crossbar after a Solano corner kick...

Argentina were losing the midfield battle. To the optic of many it may have seem that they intentionally retreated hoping to counter, but I know my Argies, they don't retreat ESPECIALLY in their own house. Perú PEGGED THEM against their own goal because they had lost the midfield to us.

This was helped because Aimar was getting nervous, maybe the Peruvian attacks got to him, nobody knows, but we were controlling the match in the second half. Also the fact that we were always going in triangles 2 on 1 against them throughout the pitch. They had no comeback to Del Solar's second half scheme.

The ref also saw that and started to call EVERYTHING for the Argies, every 50/50 ball went to them giving them a breather so to speak. If you see the midfield battle, Del Solar made sure it was always 2 against 1, and Maradona could do nothing about it.

Their goal came from a hopeful hoof that landed on an offsides Palermo.

I know you're desperate to associate Peru with success, but completely spurious mention of Muhammad Ali might be pushing it a bit!

debaser wrote:


I know you're desperate to associate Peru with success, but completely spurious mention of Muhammad Ali might be pushing it a bit!

Desperate is what Stanley Rous did in WC '66, fully knowing that he couldn't beat Brasil, he had to KO them Brasileiros with his refs through skullduggery and famous English chicanery. That's desperate!

What really pisses me off and a lot of Peruvians is that Chemo Del Solar will be the sacrificial lamb. He's a good coach with a bright future, but them corrupt fuckos (still hiding from the media!) are leaving him out to the wolves while they hide.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/353916/chemo-dice-que-no-sabe-si-tendra-posibilidades-seguir-su-carrera-peru

Puro wrote:

debaser wrote:


I know you're desperate to associate Peru with success, but completely spurious mention of Muhammad Ali might be pushing it a bit!

Desperate is what Stanley Rous did in WC '66, fully knowing that he couldn't beat Brasil, he had to KO them Brasileiros with his refs through skullduggery and famous English chicanery. That's desperate!

What really pisses me off and a lot of Peruvians is that Chemo Del Solar will be the sacrificial lamb. He's a good coach with a bright future, but them corrupt fuckos (still hiding from the media!) are leaving him out to the wolves while they hide.

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/353916/chemo-dice-que-no-sabe-si-tendra-posibilidades-seguir-su-carrera-peru

It never takes you long to roll that one out. Funny how there is absolutely no evidence to back up this statement.

No, I'd say desperate would be suggesting Peru are somehow similiar to Mohammed Ali