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Playoff for CL Spot

debaser: Number of posts : 22064
Age : 39
Supports : Aston Villa and Shrewsbury Town
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Post n°1

Playoff for CL Spot

by debaser Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:20 am

Premier League plans play-off for last Champions League place

• Team as low as seventh could be given chance to qualify
• Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool object

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/14/premier-league-play-off-champions-league

Opinions?

Strikes me as just being a moneymaker (more matches for TV)..But obviously as supporter of team who often finish 5th-7th it's appealing, as CL qualification is such a set-in-stone thing the last few yrs.

forza_rossi: Number of posts : 2563
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Post n°2

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by forza_rossi Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:39 am

Villa for the CL cheers

cheers

110%: Number of posts : 8978
Age : 50
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Post n°3

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by 110% Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:04 am

Seems wrong.

Nothing against certain leagues having 3 or 4 CL spots, because 4th in EPL is better than 1st in Finland etc and I watch the CL to see the superstars and football played at the highest level, not due to fairness and equality for all.

However 7th in the EPL would no longer be the best teams competing (4-6 in the EPL being better for a start), unless the team in 4th wins the playoff. At the moment teams compete for 4th place, with the proposed system teams will compete for 7th place. What would come next though to make it more "fair", once the same 4 teams finish 4-7th? I reckon in the next few years 1-3: chelsea, manu, man city, 4-7: arsenal, liverpool, spurs, +1 other (possibly villa, everton etc).

On top of everything else people in charge trying to be fair always fuck things up.

Di Caniooooo!: Number of posts : 10829
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Post n°4

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Di Caniooooo! Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:08 am

110% wrote:Seems wrong.

Nothing against certain leagues having 3 or 4 CL spots, because 4th in EPL is better than 1st in Finland etc and I watch the CL to see the superstars and football played at the highest level, not due to fairness and equality for all.

However 7th in the EPL would no longer be the best teams competing (4-6 in the EPL being better for a start), unless the team in 4th wins the playoff. At the moment teams compete for 4th place, with the proposed system teams will compete for 7th place. What would come next though to make it more "fair", once the same 4 teams finish 4-7th? I reckon in the next few years 1-3: chelsea, manu, man city, 4-7: arsenal, liverpool, spurs, +1 other (possibly villa, everton etc).

On top of everything else people in charge trying to be fair always fuck things up.

Ale

L r dd: Number of posts : 12451
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Post n°5

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by L r dd Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:57 am

So the first year Pool look likely to miss this is thought of. Hmmm.

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Post n°6

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by SuperMario Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:13 am

EPL going Dutch.

Six: Number of posts : 4390
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Post n°7

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Six Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:33 am

L r dd wrote:So the first year Pool look likely to miss this is thought of. Hmmm.

I didn't realise this was the first season in the premier league where we might finish outside of the top 4! Good point there.

It's a bad idea. What's the point of a league system if it doesn't decide simple stuff like this.

Aristoskank: Number of posts : 9733
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Post n°8

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Aristoskank Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:35 am

1) I've nothing against this in principle but it isn't going to happen due to the power of the biggest clubs.

2) Isn't the whole league season effectively a play off for the top four spots?

3) Doing it at the end of the season is like positive discrimination. It's basically saying 'you've spent less money on players, less money on wages, scraped into 7th on the last day of the season so here's a chance to get into the CL, now we're being fair to everyone'. A much better answer would be salary and transfer fee caps, because that affects teams throughout the season and so would tend to mean the best managed, instead of just the richest, clubs would get into the biggest competitions. It also means the best players (the 'stars' 110% is talking about) would be attracted to clubs because of their ambition and organisation, rather than the wages they are offering.

L r dd: Number of posts : 12451
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Post n°9

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by L r dd Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:48 am

Six wrote:

L r dd wrote:So the first year Pool look likely to miss this is thought of. Hmmm.

I didn't realise this was the first season in the premier league where we might finish outside of the top 4! Good point there.

Ya last time Pool finished outside the top 4 there wasnt any rule changing...... Neutral

Neutral

110%: Number of posts : 8978
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Post n°10

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by 110% Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:34 am

L r dd wrote:

Six wrote:

L r dd wrote:So the first year Pool look likely to miss this is thought of. Hmmm.

I didn't realise this was the first season in the premier league where we might finish outside of the top 4! Good point there.

Ya last time Pool finished outside the top 4 there wasnt any rule changing......

you might also have noticed that liverpool are one of the clubs against it Doh

Doh

Six: Number of posts : 4390
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Post n°11

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Six Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:12 pm

L r dd wrote:

Six wrote:

L r dd wrote:So the first year Pool look likely to miss this is thought of. Hmmm.

I didn't realise this was the first season in the premier league where we might finish outside of the top 4! Good point there.

Ya last time Pool finished outside the top 4 there wasnt any rule changing......

It's not going to be enforced this year though is it? Erm

Erm

Deluded F*ck™

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Post n°12

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Deluded F*ck™ Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:40 pm

Bubbles wrote:1) I've nothing against this in principle but it isn't going to happen due to the power of the biggest clubs.

2) Isn't the whole league season effectively a play off for the top four spots?

3) Doing it at the end of the season is like positive discrimination. It's basically saying 'you've spent less money on players, less money on wages, scraped into 7th on the last day of the season so here's a chance to get into the CL, now we're being fair to everyone'. A much better answer would be salary and transfer fee caps, because that affects teams throughout the season and so would tend to mean the best managed, instead of just the richest, clubs would get into the biggest competitions. It also means the best players would be attracted to clubs because of their ambition and organisation, rather than the wages they are offering.

Ale

Though it has to be said; if we are going to reward teams that win fuck all for year after year *cough* Arsenal *cough* Liverpool *cough* , then what's the harm in stretching it a little further?

Dwarf: Number of posts : 7502
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Post n°13

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Dwarf Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:30 pm

Given that it's been a big 2+2 for the last 5 seasons it's rather obvious what's going to happen should this go through presuming it make a difference which makes the whole idea rather pointless.

Kimbo: Number of posts : 38171
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Post n°14

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Kimbo Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:48 pm

It's bullshit, i hate playoffs.

Glenarch of the Glen

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Post n°15

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:12 pm

good memory Leetard, Liverpool spent plenty of years not qualifying for CL and missed out on Europe completely a few times. A play-off would hardly benefit us anyway, we're favourites to finish 4th and already lost to Tottenham and Man City this season. Like Rosy said, Liverpool are one of the clubs against it.

it is a silly idea though, Liverpool are having their worst season for a while and there still seems no one capable of replacing them you could have Fulham (2009) Blackburn (2008) Newcastle (2006/7) finishing 40 points off 1st and 20 points off 4th but still making it into the CL. Instead of having a race for 1st and a race for 4th you have every midtable side fighting for 7th, while Man City and Chelsea contest the tittle and Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd fight it out for 3rd.

These silly theories always pop up, CL spot for FA Cup sides, play-off for relegation etc. If the EPL can't justify 4 CL spots then take one away,

L r dd: Number of posts : 12451
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Post n°16

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by L r dd Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:37 pm

I heard this one earlier 'Leezor' as in loser. I think it's more imaginative than Leetard. Ale

Ale

Aristoskank: Number of posts : 9733
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Post n°17

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Aristoskank Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:20 pm

Maybe, but 'leetard' is almost 'leotard' which is almost 'leopard'.

Which is pretty fuckin' cool.

Luis: Number of posts : 26262
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Post n°18

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Luis Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:05 pm

This idea is illogical. Earning 4th place as this season shows, is very difficult. You might as well have a play off between the top 3 to see who wins the League then because in theory the points difference between 1st and 3rd could be as great as the one between 4th and 7th. Will never happen anyway.

debaser: Number of posts : 22064
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Post n°19

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by debaser Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:48 pm

Luis wrote:This idea is illogical. Earning 4th place as this season shows, is very difficult. You might as well have a play off between the top 3 to see who wins the League then because in theory the points difference between 1st and 3rd could be as great as the one between 4th and 7th. Will never happen anyway.

Don't be so sure. Apparently they need 14-6 majority to pass something like this..and everyone who's not in the top 4 is likely to be in favour of having greater chance to get into the big money competition.

Glenarch of the Glen

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Post n°20

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Glenarch of the Glen Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:31 pm

debaser wrote:

Luis wrote:This idea is illogical. Earning 4th place as this season shows, is very difficult. You might as well have a play off between the top 3 to see who wins the League then because in theory the points difference between 1st and 3rd could be as great as the one between 4th and 7th. Will never happen anyway.

Don't be so sure. Apparently they need 14-6 majority to pass something like this..and everyone who's not in the top 4 is likely to be in favour of having greater chance to get into the big money competition.

what do the relegation fodder have to gain from turning the big 4 into the big 7? You can see why Man City, Tottenham, Villa and perhaps Everton would be in favour of it but after that I'd expect most sides to be indifferent to or against the idea. Champions League money accounts for a small percentage or the Big 4's turnover so they are unlikely to be weakened significantly and the increased revenue generated by the extra 5 or so games that a play-off would provide is going to benefit the same clubs every year also, widening the gap between the have and the have nots.

Super Progress: Number of posts : 15429
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Post n°21

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Super Progress Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:35 pm

Maxi Rodríglenn wrote:

debaser wrote:

Luis wrote:This idea is illogical. Earning 4th place as this season shows, is very difficult. You might as well have a play off between the top 3 to see who wins the League then because in theory the points difference between 1st and 3rd could be as great as the one between 4th and 7th. Will never happen anyway.

Don't be so sure. Apparently they need 14-6 majority to pass something like this..and everyone who's not in the top 4 is likely to be in favour of having greater chance to get into the big money competition.

what do the relegation fodder have to gain from turning the big 4 into the big 7? You can see why Man City, Tottenham, Villa and perhaps Everton would be in favour of it but after that I'd expect most sides to be indifferent to or against the idea. Champions League money accounts for a small percentage or the Big 4's turnover so they are unlikely to be weakened significantly and the increased revenue generated by the extra 5 or so games that a play-off would provide is going to benefit the same clubs every year also, widening the gap between the have and the have nots.

Because the sides outside the big 4 don't have that much to lose by changing the set up. All those middle teams will know that if they just raise their level a bit one season they can surely get a 7th place and after that who knows.

debaser: Number of posts : 22064
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Post n°22

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by debaser Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:56 pm

Teams like Blackburn, Portsmouth, Fulham, Bolton have all finished in/around 7th in the last few yrs. Likes of Sunderland, West Ham are certainly big enough to aspire to top 8 finishes and others just need to look at Birmingham and see that if this system was already in place, they'd be v.close to a playoff spot. There's really very little to lose for them supporting this idea.

According to the report I linked to:

The response among clubs outside the top four is understood to have been positive, with some believing that a play-off system would create more competitive matches and give more clubs a prize to challenge for. Most clubs now feel they have no chance of attaining fourth place but almost the whole Premier League could be brought into a competition to finish seventh and make it to the play-offs. The medium-sized clubs, which increasingly aspire to break the cartel, are said to have been enthusiastic, seeing play-offs as a great opportunity.

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Post n°23

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Luis Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:39 pm

Imagine the likes of Fulham and Blackburn in the champions league because they've finished 15 points off 4th but have got a 1-0 win in the play offs, jesus Christ footy would be a laugh.

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Post n°24

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Chap Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:43 pm

"create more competitive matches" probably is going to be the line used to sell this to the relegation candidates. Fellows on today's guardian podcast were suggesting that it would margianlly reduce the impact of the fixture list on the relegation fight by increasing the competition for places in midtable during the end of the season.

Of course, this playoff isn't for an automatic CL spot but a shot at qualifying, and a bad draw can happen. So the Big 4's counterargument will likely be that by letting a potentially weaker side have a shot at the bigtime thanks to luck or injuries could mean only 3 sides in the Group Phases of the CL and this would decrease the standing of the EPL abroad. Although on the other hand, by rewarding sides who do well against big clubs but cockup minor matches, this sort of system is arguably more apt than a league ranking.

[Also, as far as revenue goes, the Big 4 don't just feed off the tv money from the CL, they rely on the international glamour, on being seen to be Big Clubs. So this is a genuine threat to their finances.]

In any case, CL qualification is already a farce, I approve this notion in the sacred name of future amusement.

debaser: Number of posts : 22064
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Post n°25

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by debaser Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:44 pm

Luis wrote:Imagine the likes of Fulham and Blackburn in the champions league because they've finished 15 points off 4th but have got a 1-0 win in the play offs, jesus Christ footy would be a laugh.

It'd be great. Just for the sheer bitterness it would invoke in fans of whichever of the usual suspects missed out Smiley

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Post n°26

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Luis Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:46 pm

debaser wrote:

Luis wrote:Imagine the likes of Fulham and Blackburn in the champions league because they've finished 15 points off 4th but have got a 1-0 win in the play offs, jesus Christ footy would be a laugh.

It'd be great. Just for the sheer bitterness it would invoke in fans of whichever of the usual suspects missed out

So you'd be happy with it? If the unthinkable happened and Villa sneaked 4th but had to go into a playoff how would you feel? It simply can't happen, it's bull shit.

Super Progress: Number of posts : 15429
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Post n°27

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Super Progress Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:07 pm

I think teams should earn it and if you consider how poor Liverpool has been this season and Arsenal last the teams should have been able to secure that place. Of course this season there is still things to play for but I just can't see it happen. With that said I have problem if it is Fulham or Blackburn who get the chance. Think it would be very interesting for a team outside the top 4 to play Cl football.

debaser: Number of posts : 22064
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Post n°28

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by debaser Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:17 pm

Luis wrote:

debaser wrote:

Luis wrote:Imagine the likes of Fulham and Blackburn in the champions league because they've finished 15 points off 4th but have got a 1-0 win in the play offs, jesus Christ footy would be a laugh.

It'd be great. Just for the sheer bitterness it would invoke in fans of whichever of the usual suspects missed out

So you'd be happy with it? If the unthinkable happened and Villa sneaked 4th but had to go into a playoff how would you feel? It simply can't happen, it's bull shit.

I'd be disappointed we didn't get 3rd Smile

Smile

It's relentlessly boring having the same 4 sides in the CL every year.

Luis: Number of posts : 26262
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Post n°29

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by Luis Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:24 pm

Everton showed they couldn't handle it when they got there. Would be the same story for the others like Villa and Fulham.

debaser: Number of posts : 22064
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Post n°30

Re: Playoff for CL Spot

by debaser Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:27 pm

So one team losing a 2-leg match against Villarreal proves that no other team could ever do anything in the competition Erm

Erm

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Re: Playoff for CL Spot

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