25 Man Squads

This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...this thread is telling me that Spurs still have a 30 man squad

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...this thread is telling me that Spurs still have a 30 man squad

rosenthal wrote:
Sandro, Giovani, Kyle Walker, Gareth Bale, Danny Rose are all considered U21 and didnt have to be registered

Deluded F*ck wrote:

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...this thread is telling me that Spurs still have a 30 man squad

rosenthal wrote:
Sandro, Giovani, Kyle Walker, Gareth Bale, Danny Rose are all considered U21 and didnt have to be registered

Yes, that's what I mean. On paper you have a 25 man squad, but in reality Bale is a fixed starter, Sandro will get a lot of appearances, and Rose and Giovani will also get some minutes and are effectively already at the status of squad players as they've made appearances in the Premier league. The only 'true' youngster in your 30 man squad is Walker, and even that's debateable.

So the rules don't really appear to be restricting squad size...

fcb wrote:

Deluded F*ck wrote:

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...this thread is telling me that Spurs still have a 30 man squad

rosenthal wrote:
Sandro, Giovani, Kyle Walker, Gareth Bale, Danny Rose are all considered U21 and didnt have to be registered

Yes, that's what I mean. On paper you have a 25 man squad, but in reality Bale is a fixed starter, Sandro will get a lot of appearances, and Rose and Giovani will also get some minutes and are effectively already at the status of squad players as they've made many appearances in the Premier league. The only 'true' youngster in your 30 man squad is Walker, and even that's debateable.

So the rules don't really appear to be restricting squad size...

No and the "8 home grown" rule is a piss-take as well - just look at Arsenal's squad. As usual a lot of masquerading but very little change from the EPL.

What are they trying to achieve with this 8 home-grown players? Are they trying to increase the number of English players coming through, because if that's the case then they are failing? Arsenal for instance can field 7 homegrown players, and none of them are English.

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...

You were the one championing this rule when it was announced to be implemented in time for this season.

Cesc Soler wrote:

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...

You were the one championing this rule when it was announced to be implemented in time for this season.

I must have not understood it properly. I thought the squads really would be restricted to 25, not with a little side-clause that allows an innumerable number of 21 year olds to be "unregistered" but still eligible to play!

For example, Spurs have anywhere between 27-30 genuine first-team players (depending how you classify Rose, Walker, and Naughton...and there's Woodgate as well)...that's what I thought the rule would stop.


btw, where are these under-21s registered then? With the youth team? With the reserves?

fcb wrote:

Cesc Soler wrote:

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...

You were the one championing this rule when it was announced to be implemented in time for this season.

I must have not understood it properly. I thought the squads really would be restricted to 25, not with a little side-clause that allows an innumerable number of 21 year olds to be "unregistered" but still eligible to play!

For example, Spurs have anywhere between 27-30 genuine first-team players (depending how you classify Rose, Walker, and Naughton...and there's Woodgate as well)...that's what I thought the rule would stop.


btw, where are these under-21s registered then? With the youth team? With the reserves?

Rose & Walker are U-21's

Naughton isn't - he makes up part of the 25.

Woodgate wasn't registered at all because of injury.

rza wrote:What are they trying to achieve with this 8 home-grown players? Are they trying to increase the number of English players coming through, because if that's the case then they are failing? Arsenal for instance can field 7 homegrown players, and none of them are English.

It's a half-arsed attempt at a proper homegrown player rule. Knowing that European law wouldn't allow them to discriminate against non-English players, they came up with this.

S4P wrote:21 man squad:

Goalkeepers: Petr Cech, Henrique Hilario, Ross Turnbull

Defenders: Bransilav Ivanovic, Ashley Cole, Jose Bosingwa, Yury Zhirkov, Paulo Ferreira, John Terry, Alex

Midfielders: Michael Essien, Ramires, Frank Lampard, Yossi Benayoun, John Obi Mikel, Florent Malouda

Forwards: Didier Drogba, Salomon Kalou, Nicolas Anelka


Under-21s: Daniel Sturridge, Patrick van Aanholt, Jeffrey Bruma, Gael Kakuta, Fabio Borini, Josh McEachran

So basically...

11 players that are the core team (Cech, Ivan, Ash, JT, Alex, SEN, Mikel, Lamps, Drogs, Malouda, Anelka)
2 newbies (Yossi, Ramires)
2 players continually injured (Zhirkov, Bos)
3 shit players (Hilario, Turnbull, Ferreira)
1 Kalou

Can't see how we're not gonna have to play quite a lot of youth this season.

fcb wrote:

Cesc Soler wrote:

fcb wrote:This rule appears to be a bit of a joke...

You were the one championing this rule when it was announced to be implemented in time for this season.

I must have not understood it properly. I thought the squads really would be restricted to 25, not with a little side-clause that allows an innumerable number of 21 year olds to be "unregistered" but still eligible to play!

For example, Spurs have anywhere between 27-30 genuine first-team players (depending how you classify Rose, Walker, and Naughton...and there's Woodgate as well)...that's what I thought the rule would stop.


btw, where are these under-21s registered then? With the youth team? With the reserves?

The rule is first of all about limiting the number of senior professionals at the club, so that youth have an opportunity to get game time.
If there was a limit to U21 players the opportunities would be fewer for the youth.
I'm sure they'd love to put a limit to foreign players, especially among the un-registered players -
but that is prevented by EU regulations. You can't discriminate against workers withing the EU region.

The U21 players aren't neccessarily with reserves or youth. They can be first team players, they just don't have to be registered to be eligible to play in the Premier League.

Some good results from the new rules - Manchester City have been forced to loan out good players that weren't in their plans.
Without the rule they'd likely be happy to have them rot in the stands as they don't care about money - football wins.
Another is the clubs that usually have a lot of foreigners, due to not having enough home grown players they have planned their squad so that they don't have a full 25 man squad - this benefit the U21 players at the club.

rosenthal wrote:

Some good results from the new rules - Manchester City have been forced to loan out good players that weren't in their plans.
Without the rule they'd likely be happy to have them rot in the stands as they don't care about money - football wins.
Another is the clubs that usually have a lot of foreigners, due to not having enough home grown players they have planned their squad so that they don't have a full 25 man squad - this benefit the U21 players at the club.

I don't know if that's true, Man City had been loaning out players who weren't in their plans previously and had more than their fair share of English and homegrown players.

Tottenham were the only club ever in danger of being affected by this rule, their squad has to be among the largest in Premier League history - despite the rule. They will have to trim their squad soon enough since Sandro and co will need to be registered next year.

I also think that there should be an overage rule similar to the underage rule for players 33/34+

Glennjo Shelvey wrote:

Tottenham were the only club ever in danger of being affected by this rule, their squad has to be among the largest in Premier League history - despite the rule. They will have to trim their squad soon enough since Sandro and co will need to be registered next year.

Good example, next summer there'll be pressure on Tottenham to move on players like Bentley and Hutton.
Bale, Sandro and Giovani + new signings will force Tottenham to sell/release other players - other good players that can do a job at other clubs and enrichen the world of football. The 25 man rule will also make sure that the manager will make a decision on someone like Giovani, is there room for him in the squad or should he be sold - without the rule he could easily be kept on even if it was to rot in the stands.

You could say we were affected, we didnt have room for Ben Alnwick.
Now some other club will benefit from having him on loan, or even permanently if we release him

Glennjo Shelvey wrote:
I also think that there should be an overage rule similar to the underage rule for players 33/34+

hmm to what purpose?
Kind of an interesting idea, to stimulate clubs to keep veteran players who like to remain in the game.
At Tottenham we had Jimmy Walker as an extra goal keeper on training, doing good work as a mentor for younger players.
This year someone like him wouldn't be of interest at all.
I do fell 33 is a bit to young though, but perhaps 35+

rosenthal wrote:

Glennjo Shelvey wrote:

Tottenham were the only club ever in danger of being affected by this rule, their squad has to be among the largest in Premier League history - despite the rule. They will have to trim their squad soon enough since Sandro and co will need to be registered next year.

Good example, next summer there'll be pressure on Tottenham to move on players like Bentley and Hutton.
Bale, Sandro and Giovani + new signings will force Tottenham to sell/release other players - other good players that can do a job at other clubs and enrichen the world of football. The 25 man rule will also make sure that the manager will make a decision on someone like Giovani, is there room for him in the squad or should he be sold - without the rule he could easily be kept on even if it was to rot in the stands.

You could say we were affected, we didnt have room for Ben Alnwick.
Now some other club will benefit from having him on loan, or even permanently if we release him

Glennjo Shelvey wrote:
I also think that there should be an overage rule similar to the underage rule for players 33/34+

hmm to what purpose?
Kind of an interesting idea, to stimulate clubs to keep veteran players who like to remain in the game.
At Tottenham we had Jimmy Walker as an extra goal keeper on training, doing good work as a mentor for younger players.
This year someone like him wouldn't be of interest at all.
I do fell 33 is a bit to young though, but perhaps 35+

Ben Alnwick?

WHO?

You didn't have room for your 4th/5th choice goalkeeper? Doesn't that blunt your point a little, you signed another goalkeeper on deadline day which forces Alnwick to rot. Despite this rule you have 3 foreign goalkeepers who all could arguably be starters at this level. Despite this rule you don't have many academy players in your squad King, O'Hara....?

You still have effectively 3 EPL strength starting line-ups I don't see what the rule has done for anyone - except Woodcock.

Glennjo Shelvey wrote:

Ben Alnwick?

WHO?

You didn't have room for your 4th/5th choice goalkeeper? Doesn't that blunt your point a little, you signed another goalkeeper on deadline day which forces Alnwick to rot. Despite this rule you have 3 foreign goalkeepers who all could arguably be starters at this level.

1 first choice goal keeper, two injury plagued veterans as back up.

The english "talent" didn't make the squad, and have to go out on loan or sign for another club.
= Win for english football and the talent, all due to the new rules.
If there was no 25 man squad ruling, Tottenham might very well have kept him on.

Next step, which will take a court case first, will be that the players can terminate their contracts if they aren't added to the main 25 man squad.

Glennjo Shelvey wrote:

Despite this rule you don't have many academy players in your squad King, O'Hara....?

You still have effectively 3 EPL strength starting line-ups I don't see what the rule has done for anyone - except Woodcock.

Neither UEFA, FA or Premier League count academy players.
They count home grown and club trained (3 years at club between 15-21) players,
personally I hoped England would follow UEFA and demand 4 of the 8 home grown players to be club trained.
This might come in the future though.

At Tottenham King, O'Hara, Lennon and Crouch are all club trained. Huddlestone might also be, I'm not 100% sure.
And Gareth Bale will be as well next season when he have to be registered.

25 registered senior players of whom 10 are english. 1 irish, 1 scot.
Dont think Tottenham should have a guilty conscience, we're pulling our weight ... more than most top clubs I'd say.

We don't have many former academy players above 21 that are good enough for Premier League football sadly,
I wish it was better, but on the other hand it will improve in the future.
There's a long list of youth at Tottenham who are getting their first team experience out on loan.

rosenthal wrote:Next step, which will take a court case first, will be that the players can terminate their contracts if they aren't added to the main 25 man squad.

I presume they won't have a leg to stand on at the minute, but I'd guess they'll start to add clauses to contracts, along the lines of 'if i'm not in the 25, you have to allow me to leave for £Xm'

debaser wrote:

rosenthal wrote:Next step, which will take a court case first, will be that the players can terminate their contracts if they aren't added to the main 25 man squad.

I presume they won't have a leg to stand on at the minute, but I'd guess they'll start to add clauses to contracts, along the lines of 'if i'm not in the 25, you have to allow me to leave for £Xm'

I was reading f365 when i came across this
"Arsene Wenger has challenged the logic of the rule, pointing to FIFA regulations that may allow an excluded player to end his contract and wondering why the Premier League would do anything that could undermine its international competitiveness"

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_6352585,00.html

Hardrada wrote:

S4P wrote:21 man squad:

Goalkeepers: Petr Cech, Henrique Hilario, Ross Turnbull

Defenders: Bransilav Ivanovic, Ashley Cole, Jose Bosingwa, Yury Zhirkov, Paulo Ferreira, John Terry, Alex

Midfielders: Michael Essien, Ramires, Frank Lampard, Yossi Benayoun, John Obi Mikel, Florent Malouda

Forwards: Didier Drogba, Salomon Kalou, Nicolas Anelka


Under-21s: Daniel Sturridge, Patrick van Aanholt, Jeffrey Bruma, Gael Kakuta, Fabio Borini, Josh McEachran

So basically...

11 players that are the core team (Cech, Ivan, Ash, JT, Alex, SEN, Mikel, Lamps, Drogs, Malouda, Anelka)
2 newbies (Yossi, Ramires)
2 players continually injured (Zhirkov, Bos)
3 shit players (Hilario, Turnbull, Ferreira)
1 Kalou

Can't see how we're not gonna have to play quite a lot of youth this season.

Jesus that makes our squad look deep!!