Europe's Big Guns?

Had a discussion on another thread about the top 20 teams in the World but say if all the clubs in Europe were amalgamated into a league system, what clubs do you think would presently form the top 20?

Would it be dominated by a few countries teams or would there be a bit more diversity to it?

Here is my guess:

1 Man Utd
2 Chelsea
3 Liverpool
4 Arsenal
5 Inter
6 Milan
7 Roma
8 Valencia
9 Real Madrid
10 Barcelona
11 Sevilla
12 Bayern
13 Werder Bremen
14 Ajax
15 PSV
16 Lyon
17 Porto
18 Sporting
19 Benfica
20 CSKA

Hmm, what do we think?

I left out clubs like Celtic, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Lille, Bordeaux, Marseille, Hamburg, Anderlecht....etc....

Do these deserve a place?

If there was a European Super league then it would consist of all the teams within the G14 or none of them. And if they are all included then that would mean that Chelsea would not be invited.

@ Isar

I meant on footballing ability rather than the politics of it all.

I know someone that once got Championship manager and edited it so that all the big clubs were in a 5 tier system and he started out in the 5th league with Middlesborough. He siad that to break into the top league was near on impossible and that no team won the double.

To be honest, Chelsea or Barcelona would be my favourites - purely down to squad strengthn and DEPTH

I'd put Juventus in as well. Just because they now have gone down, they should still be in there. I also think Celtic could be there or thereabouts, especially if Ajax is in.

Maybe also Steaua and surely another team from France before Ajax at present. I suppose it is difficult to choose between Sporting and Benfica but one of those surely would have to play a play-off to allow one of them access. Only 1 team from France and 3 from Portugal is a little bit lopsided.

On ability, it would be very difficult to select a list of 20.

What would your criteria be? For example, I think that both Newcastle and Tottenham have stronger teams than Liverpool. I also think that Hamburg are stronger than a few you have mentioned.

I agree, I found it difficult to leave out one of Sporting, Benfica and Porto - probably Sporting because their recent European record has not been as good as the other two.

Ajax I have been told are going to be seriously good this season and will walk the league in Holland.

Juventus - hmm - unsure. They do still have some very good players and they have a good recent record in Europe so I probably agree with you, but at the expense of who? CSKA?

Isar Truppe wrote:On ability, it would be very difficult to select a list of 20.

What would your criteria be? For example, I think that both Newcastle and Tottenham have stronger teams than Liverpool. I also think that Hamburg are stronger than a few you have mentioned.

Well thats your personal view - I'm not exactly sure what it is based on either.

I suppose the league would be based oin clubs recent European records

Isar Truppe wrote:On ability, it would be very difficult to select a list of 20.

What would your criteria be? For example, I think that both Newcastle and Tottenham have stronger teams than Liverpool. I also think that Hamburg are stronger than a few you have mentioned.

why do you think the scum and the geordies have a better team than liverpool?

Isar Truppe wrote:On ability, it would be very difficult to select a list of 20.

What would your criteria be? For example, I think that both Newcastle and Tottenham have stronger teams than Liverpool. I also think that Hamburg are stronger than a few you have mentioned.

@ Tweedledum

The problem with Ajax this season are:

- at times 'loss' of self confidence [a more or less 'young' team] is likely to happen when under pressure (i.e. second leg game against Copenhagen in the UCL 3rd round qualifiers) .. also there was a tad sign of arrogance .. which should now be 'eliminated' from their mindset.

BUT, towards the end of last season .. Ajax were on a roll (Won Play-offs and KNVB cup)

With Huntelaar from the start; and more or less last seasons team intact (addition of experience in Stam and useful players in Gabri), Ajax will come close to win the league ... 'walk it' hmm not sure.

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If UEFA were going to create a 20 team, Super League; there has (will) be representatives from the Netherlands .. PSV (yes), Ajax maybe, Feyenoord and AZ will be your other alternatives -- current form (no bias or disrespect) i will cross out our friends from Rotterdam .. AZ to challenge Ajax for that second spot ... possibly.

I think Spurs and Newcastle, with all players being fit, have better squads than Liverpool. I don't rate the Liverpool team, I rate their manager.

italian_hammer(DEANO!) wrote:

Isar Truppe wrote:On ability, it would be very difficult to select a list of 20.

What would your criteria be? For example, I think that both Newcastle and Tottenham have stronger teams than Liverpool. I also think that Hamburg are stronger than a few you have mentioned.

why do you think the scum and the geordies have a better team than liverpool?

they may be better drinkers!
or better joke-tellers?
or jugglers...
or they "gel" together better.

certainly not based on European or even national performances.

Isar Truppe wrote:I think Spurs and Newcastle, with all players being fit, have better squads than Liverpool. I don't rate the Liverpool team, I rate their manager.

thank you for brightening up my day kaiser

hmm jenas or gerrard

@ Isar

Under Houillier though they still managed to finish above Newcastle and Spurs.

Since then they have bought some real quality: Agger, Reina, Finnan, Sissoko, Alonso, Garcia, Zenden, Kuyt, Bellamy, Crouch.....

Is it because Hammann no longer plays for them?

i dont rate tottenham anyway....

I can see what he's saying though.

Most of the players - Gerrard, Alonso (Agger and Kuyt once they've proved themselves more) aside are pretty average.

Rafa just has them playing in a very efficent way.

Reina, Finnan, Pennant, Sissoko, Bellamy, Crouch are all generally middle of the league type players.

Parks Lives wrote:I can see what he's saying though.

Most of the players - Gerrard, Alonso, Agger and Kuyt once they've proved themselves more are pretty average.

Rafa just has them playing in a very efficent way.

Reina, Finnan, Pennant, Sissoko, Bellamy, Crouch are all generally middle of the league type players.

now parky is sticking his oar in....

not really much point even trying to humour them is there

i would do this

3 for the big 3
2 for France,Germany,Portugal, Holland and Russia
1 Scotland

With the team the finishes last playoff against a team.,That has won a knock out style competition of the winners of their respective leagues

I agree in a sense Parky, but Houiller managed to get them in a CL spot so I'm sure they're pretty good.

Tweedledum wrote:I agree in a sense Parky, but Houiller managed to get them in a CL spot so I'm sure they're pretty good.

Not every year. They had a couple of seasons in the UEFA cup.

Tweedledum wrote:

Is it because Hammann no longer plays for them?

More since Karl-Heinz Riedle left

I definately believe Newcastle have a far better defence, I don't think anyone can argue with that!!!

<cough>

Isar Truppe wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:

Is it because Hammann no longer plays for them?

More since Karl-Heinz Riedle left

I definately believe Newcastle have a far better defence, I don't think anyone can argue with that!!!

<cough>

now come on isar... give us some more reasoning than that...you can't just land a newcastle and spurs have a better team than liverpool comment on us without any reasoning...

I look forward to you answer

ITs not so much an arguement about 'how' the league would be formed guys but 'who' would be in it - based on present form over the past 5 years say.

No more than 3 from a Country

From England.

Man United
Chelsea
Arsenal

From Italy.

AC Milan
Inter Milan
Juventus/Roma

From Spain

Barcelona
Real Madrid
Valencia

Then the likes of

Bayern
Bremen
Ajax
PSV
Lyon
Benfica

and some others

Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United

Olympique Marseille
Olympique Lyon

Bayern München
HSV
Werder Bremen

AC Milan
AS Roma
Internazionale

Ajax
AZ Alkmaar
PSV Eindhoven

Benfica
Sporting CP Lisbon

CSKA Moscow

FC Barcelona
Real Madrid
Valencia

Why Liverpool, over Arsenal Rai?

Arsenal only won the league two years ago.

IF the league were being formed today, there´d be more than 2 german teams, more than 1 french and prob at least 1 less portuguese team as at the moment based on the respective coefficients they are over represented

the prob with france is that after lyon there is no certainty over who is next unlike england, and germany have the same issue which overll prob makes the national league a little more interesting

rai Mihawk wrote:Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United

Olympique Marseille
Olympique Lyon

Bayern München
HSV
Werder Bremen

AC Milan
AS Roma
Internazionale

Ajax
AZ Alkmaar
PSV Eindhoven

Benfica
Sporting CP Lisbon

CSKA Moscow

FC Barcelona
Real Madrid
Valencia

You'd say Hamburg, AZ and Marseille would be in there ahead of Arsenal?

Parks,

looking for loopholes to leave Liverpool out?

just remember they won the European Cup 5 times so they should be a honorary member.