Europe's Big Guns?

Can I clarify again - we are NOT assuming the league would be just formed out of thin air but that it say over the period of a year it would be played out and the top 20 teams at the end would form a league, so feasibly what I am sayin gis that the league could well be 20 la liga's teams.....

Tweedledum wrote:

rai Mihawk wrote:Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United

Olympique Marseille
Olympique Lyon

Bayern München
HSV
Werder Bremen

AC Milan
AS Roma
Internazionale

Ajax
AZ Alkmaar
PSV Eindhoven

Benfica
Sporting CP Lisbon

CSKA Moscow

FC Barcelona
Real Madrid
Valencia

You'd say Hamburg, AZ and Marseille would be in there ahead of Arsenal?

i had to choose 3 English sides .. but your right Aresnal 'are' better than those 3 sides (at the moment) -- simply replace one of them (HSV + AZ?) for Arsenal..

toon h wrote:Parks,

looking for loopholes to leave Liverpool out?

just remember they won the European Cup 5 times so they should be a honorary member.

No but if we did have the rule that only 3 teams would go through, then I'd pick Arsenal over Liverpool at this time. Mainly for there consistency in the Premiership.

There are NO rules though - just the best 20 teams - it does not matter in what league they come from but obviously it is likely that they won't all come from the same league

Top 20 teams in UEFA Rankings (4-5 year period)

1 AC Milan
2 FC Barcelona
3 Internazionale
4 Arsenal
5 Juventus
6 Liverpool
7 Real Madrid
8 Olympique Lyon
9 Valencia
10 FC Porto
11 Manchester United
12 Chelsea
13 Newcastle United
14 Villarreal
15 PSV Eindhoven
16 AS Roma
17 Bayern München
18 Sevilla
19 Schalke 04
20 AS Monaco

Well, if we're choosing teams at this time then Arsenal and Liverpool would go ahead of Utd, as they've acheived something over the past 2 seasons.

rai Mihawk wrote:Top 20 teams in UEFA Rankings (4-5 year period)

1 AC Milan
2 FC Barcelona
3 Internazionale
4 Arsenal
5 Juventus
6 Liverpool
7 Real Madrid
8 Olympique Lyon
9 Valencia
10 FC Porto
11 Manchester United
12 Chelsea
13 Newcastle United
14 Villarreal
15 PSV Eindhoven
16 AS Roma
17 Bayern München
18 Sevilla
19 Schalke 04
20 AS Monaco

*chokes on own laughter*

@ Obispo

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2007.html

how did i know that was coming obispo, shows the rankings are shit too much clout given to mickey mouse uefa cup and it´d be better if for something of this magnitude the most recent years weren´t the most important a simple 5 year average all years equal

I suppose there'd be play-offs to get into this league no?

so,

3 best English
3 best Spanish
3 best Italian
2 best German
2 best French
1 x Dutch
1 x Portuguese

and the rest would be played off in a group stage qualifying round with 20 other teams (5 winners going through):
1 x English, Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch, Portuguese, Scottish, Greek, Turkish, Russian, Belgian,
Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Romanian, Austrian, Swiss

+ 4 spots from another qualification tournament including again
English (nº 6), Spanish, Italian, German, French, Dutch, Portuguese, Scottish, Greek, Turkish, Russian, + winners of minor leagues (Polish, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, Bulgarian).

What about that?

Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal.

liverpool, man utd and arsenal, as kuyt says chelsea aren´t a big club just a rich one.

@ toon h



I will phone UEFA now and propose them this ...

Sevilla should definitely be there. IMO they're a better team than Madrid at the moment, and there is no reason why they can't challenge for the title. They've beaten Barca in the last two times they have met.

every team form the big 3 would have to had reseach a CL final
Please Not that this is because i don't want chelsea to qualify
so England would be

Liverpool,Arsenal,Man. Utd

now maybe calidad but IF you were proposing this it couldn´t be done on short term stats but longer term given the money that would be available

Toon H proposal sounds the best

Interesting that the Portuguese teams are rated lower in most opinions than the Germans for example.
Portugal's teams records in the champions league and eufa cup, over the last 5 years is better than most other countries.

As someone said th coefficients are flawed.

As a method, I would make say 5 leagues of 20 teams - each drawn at random and based on coefficients looking at European and league form.

Then after one season, the top 4 from each league would go into the top league, the next 4 into the B league and so on....

Then play out about two seasons and things would properly even out over time

Maybe it would best be made of teams that have actually won the champions cup. Or got to, maybe 5 finals, at least.

toon h wrote:I suppose there'd be play-offs to get into this league no?

so,

3 best English
3 best Spanish
3 best Italian
2 best German
2 best French
1 x Dutch
1 x Portuguese

and the rest would be played off in a group stage qualifying round with 20 other teams (5 winners going through):
1 x English, Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch, Portuguese, Scottish, Greek, Turkish, Russian, Belgian,
Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Romanian, Austrian, Swiss

+ 4 spots from another qualification tournament including again
English (nº 6), Spanish, Italian, German, French, Dutch, Portuguese, Scottish, Greek, Turkish, Russian, + winners of minor leagues (Polish, Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, Bulgarian).

What about that?

Erm. no direspect, but besides Lyon, what exactly makes French league be so high in there? Is it me, or Portugal has had more teams in the finals and semi's than French and German teams together in the last 4 years?

Not to mention that Celtic beat Boavista for the Uefa cup final spot the year they got there.
Surely more likely Portugal x 2 teams, and Germany and France x 1 team on current form.

well, I've left France out of the qualifying group, so that might even things out again. I am not sure where the French league is ranked according to UEFA, but I thought they were ranked above Portugal. Maybe not, however, I am not too rigid to let this be written in stone.

At the end of the year, the last 5 would be relegated down to their respective leagues. We would then see a qualification tournament similar to the one mentioned before, with 5 groups of 4 teams vying for the 5 vacancies. Winners of the different groups would play the second of another group at home for a decider (to account for a group with two strong contenders). It is quite similar to the system used for promotion and relegation from Segunda A (national) to Segunda B (regional) in Spain.

If you'd like to know any more details, let me know.

what did UEFA say toon h? were they a fan?

UEFA has nothing to do with it, Tweedle. I can't wait to see their faces when they find out!

The way i see it it should be based on regular european/domestic success and not a briliant year and then shadows

3 from the big 3
*******
England.
+Man United
+Chelsea or Liverpool
+Arsenal

Italy
+AC Milan
+Inter Milan
+Juventus

Spain
+Barcelona
+Real Madrid
+Valencia or At. Madrid

2 from the second ring
*******
Germany
+Bayern
+Werder or Hamburg

Holland
+2 of the big 3 (Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord)

Portugal
+2 of the big 3 (Porto, Benfica, Sporting)

France
+Lyon
+Marseille or PSG or Monaco

Others
*******
Play-off between all the other countries plus 2 more from the previous countries

+3 clubs



It would be interesting

Don't really like the structure of 3 from the big 3 etc, since the 4th team from those leagues is probably stronger than the second team from most other leagues.

Would there also be a cup competition? Since the teams will no longer be playing in the national cups, CL or UEFA Cup then there is not need to restrict them to 20 clubs is there? So probably all the top clubs could get in.

110% wrote:Don't really like the structure of 3 from the big 3 etc, since the 4th team from those leagues is probably stronger than the second team from most other leagues.

Would there also be a cup competition? Since the teams will no longer be playing in the national cups, CL or UEFA Cup then there is not need to restrict them to 20 clubs is there? So probably all the top clubs could get in.

Indeed but if you reduce all to teams of the big 3 for instance it would lose a certain charisma of european competitions. Could be interesting for a while but soon it would become boring playing all the time with the same teams.

To play with lesser known teams makes possible a shift in the power of football and as we have seen lately, having a well stablished name doesn´t mean you win everytime.

basicly everyone from g14 (+ the new members i.e. arsenal etc.) and a few more to get the 20 full.

juventus cannot be considered as one of the "big guns"....how long have they been cheating for? how many less titles would they have won by playing fair?

i think that place belongs to Roma

Tweedledum wrote:
Ajax I have been told are going to be seriously good this season and will walk the league in Holland.

You've been lied to....