Premier League Discussion 16/17/18 October 2010

Brilliant goal from Silva

Brilliant goal from Silva to win it for City. A very harsh scoreline for Blackpool who deserved a lot better than this. I think Adebayor had better get used to sitting on the bench for some time now, Silva has made a considerable contribution since coming on.

Messi-esque.

BLACKPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOl

ohhh 3-2! too late though.

Kimbo wrote:2 games in a row that Man City have been handed games by the officials. Congratulations.

We also raped them on the opening game of the season, yet they somehow managed to get out with a point.

It's almost inevitable now that Man City are going to be a top 4 side for years to come

Noah and the Bale wrote:

Kimbo wrote:2 games in a row that Man City have been handed games by the officials. Congratulations.

We also raped them on the opening game of the season, yet they somehow managed to get out with a point.

It's almost inevitable now that Man City are going to be a top 4 side for years to come

You Spuds were having a go at me last season for saying the quality of the league is decreasing, well look at this season, it's even worse! Only Chelsea are impressive! Even in the 90s when the league lacked quality atleast teams played good football and had exciting players, now it's lacking in all 3.

[quote="Boneyskank"]
Wodge hasn't become a bad manager in between leaving Fulham and joining Liverpool, and most of the problems in your squad were there before he arrived. He's done poorly, but as I keep saying, don't kid yourself that getting a new manager will fix things. [/quote]

Just what inspires you about Woy? Where in the ground do you sit as I am astonished to learn where this incredible optimism is coming from?

Or maybe you are impressed with his record. Two titles in the football hotbed that is Sweden about 35 years ago and fuck all since?

Or maybe the fact that he is an Englishman is sufficient and not some nasty foreigner?
Maybe it is his purchases?

Maybe the team set up?.

Press conferences?.

Failing to defend Torres or destroying the confidence of promising players like Shelvey?

All wonderful stuff.

Kimbo wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:

Kimbo wrote:2 games in a row that Man City have been handed games by the officials. Congratulations.

We also raped them on the opening game of the season, yet they somehow managed to get out with a point.

It's almost inevitable now that Man City are going to be a top 4 side for years to come

You Spuds were having a go at me last season for saying the quality of the league is decreasing, well look at this season, it's even worse! Only Chelsea are impressive! Even in the 90s when the league lacked quality atleast teams played good football and had exciting players, now it's lacking in all 3.

Err, no, we were having a go at your because you had been moaning about the big 4 for ages, how everyone else was there just to make up the numbers, yet suddenly last season you then started moaning about the overall quality of the league when - surprisingly - we stepped up and broke into the top 4.

I don't agree with you anyway - the quality of the traditional powerhouses may have slipped, but the teams further down the league have definitely improved in comparison with 10 years ago. It's partially why Liverpool are 2nd from bottom, because teams like Blackpool, Stoke, West Brom, Wigan and the like are no longer the cannon fodder they were in the past, willing to fold simply because of Liverpool's - or any of the big clubs'- reputations

[quote="Luis"]
Saints are you watching these games?
Are you telling me that the players understand the "system" Roy is playing and are happy playing for him?
[/quote]


Reina interview start of the season.

"Each of us has to adjust to working in a new way. For me, I’m working in a slightly different way. It is an English style of goalkeeping coaching. With the passing of each day I get used to it and what the manager wants. "

For fucks sake. The one player whose style we don't need to change is Reina. Clueless. Dont even get me started on the rest.

Great win for us after saturdays results, we didnt play well in the first half but improved in the second and got the win which is the main thing.

Tevez is incredible i fucking love him and Silva's goal was class. Credit to Blackpool they played some good stuff and were unlucky.

2nd 2 points behind Chelsea and 3 clear of U*d, Arsenal and Spurs with two of those coming up at home soon.

Noah and the Bale wrote:
I don't agree with you anyway - the quality of the traditional powerhouses may have slipped, but the teams further down the league have definitely improved in comparison with 10 years ago. It's partially why Liverpool are 2nd from bottom, because teams like Blackpool, Stoke, West Brom, Wigan and the like are no longer the cannon fodder they were in the past, willing to fold simply because of Liverpool's - or any of the big clubs'- reputations

I don't agree at all, there isn't much of a gap between the top 6 in the championship and the bottom 8 or so in the premiership these days.

Blackburn - can't play football
Stoke - can't play football
Wolves - can't play football
Sunderland - a poor team with a good striker
Birmingham, West Ham, Wigan, Bolton, Fulham - all average
Newcastle, WBA, Blackpool - none have really improved since last season and don't look out of place in this league
Everton and Liverpool are looking awful

I fail to see how you can be impressed by this lot.

GR wrote:

Boneyskank wrote:
Wodge hasn't become a bad manager in between leaving Fulham and joining Liverpool, and most of the problems in your squad were there before he arrived. He's done poorly, but as I keep saying, don't kid yourself that getting a new manager will fix things.

Just what inspires you about Woy? Where in the ground do you sit as I am astonished to learn where this incredible optimism is coming from?

Or maybe you are impressed with his record. Two titles in the football hotbed that is Sweden about 35 years ago and fuck all since?

Or maybe the fact that he is an Englishman is sufficient and not some nasty foreigner?
Maybe it is his purchases?

Maybe the team set up?.

Press conferences?.

Failing to defend Torres or destroying the confidence of promising players like Shelvey?

All wonderful stuff.

Yep, no one is denying he's hashed it at Liverpool, but this arrogant assumption he's not fit to manage Liverpool is massive bollocks. You came 7th last season, nothing to do with Hodgson. Hodgson has a strong record of taking struggling clubs (Inter, Copenhagen, Viking, Fulham) and improving them. That is the kind of manager Liverpool should have expected to get, not the next Mourinho or Ferguson. Exactly who do you think would have wanted to come to Liverpool last season? Club with debts, an unbalanced squad, key players being sold.

It's just a shame Woy went, as it's a poison chalice that job, so much misplaced expectation. Perhaps Liverpool would have benefitted from a young manager with completely new methods and willing to turn the club on it's head, get rid of all the deadwood and starting again. Woy hasn't done this, he's clearly tried to play it safe and made some very odd decisions in the process. He deserves criticism for sure, but not this shit where his CV is now being questioned and Liverpool fans expecting a trophy laden manager at the helm. You have to walk before you can run.

18 months ago when 'Arry took over at Spurs, his one stand out success had been winning the FA Cup. Look what he's done for us now. We may need to replace him (I hope not) if we were intent on taking it to the next level, who knows, but guys like Redknapp and Hodgson have history in turning around clubs and bringing stability. That is the best you can hope for, and for that reason you can't criticise Hodgson's CV.

Since everybody seems to know our(Liverpool supporters) expectations this season, can someone tell me please what our expectation is/was?

My expectation was top 6 but now it's top 15.

Kimbo wrote:

Noah and the Bale wrote:
I don't agree with you anyway - the quality of the traditional powerhouses may have slipped, but the teams further down the league have definitely improved in comparison with 10 years ago. It's partially why Liverpool are 2nd from bottom, because teams like Blackpool, Stoke, West Brom, Wigan and the like are no longer the cannon fodder they were in the past, willing to fold simply because of Liverpool's - or any of the big clubs'- reputations

I don't agree at all, there isn't much of a gap between the top 6 in the championship and the bottom 8 or so in the premiership these days.

Blackburn - can't play football
Stoke - can't play football
Wolves - can't play football
Sunderland - a poor team with a good striker
Birmingham, West Ham, Wigan, Bolton, Fulham - all average
Newcastle, WBA, Blackpool - none have really improved since last season and don't look out of place in this league
Everton and Liverpool are looking awful

I fail to see how you can be impressed by this lot.

Summing up the ability of these clubs in a few words doesn't really work for me I'm afraid.

You're talking about the quality - I saw plenty of quality in Sunderland's performance against United t'other day for example. Blackpool played with plenty of fluidity and quality this afternoon. West Brom haven't fluked wins at Arsenal, a draw at United and against us without having decent players with quality. There are plenty of decent footballers capable of playing for supposedly "bigger" sides in the group you've just dismissed.

As a example, players like Jordan Henderson (Sunderland), Ricardo Fuller / Kenwyne Jones (Stoke), Hleb (Brum), Brunt / Odemwhingie / Dorrans (Brom), Varney / Adam (Blackpool), Cahill / Elmander / Lee (Bolton), N'Zogbia / McCarthy / Rodellaga (Wigan), Dunn / Samba (Blackburn) + the ones you know at Everton and Newcastle show there is a pool of talent outside the top 4 which I believe is stronger than it has been in awhile, certainly stronger than 10 years ago when the league had sides like Barnsley, Swindon and the like who would go down with record number of goals conceded and lowest points, and the top of the table was Man United and a rotation of pretenders who would routinely get shown up in Europe.

Infact, I'm actually chuckling to myself at this, because you have long said pretty much exactly what I'm saying above - that there are plenty of decent quality players outside of the top 4 who rarely get the recognition they deserve. You can't tell me there is individual quality outside the top 4 in one breath and then dismiss entire clubs outside the top 4 the next. Or can you?

Ade wrote:Since everybody seems to know our(Liverpool supporters) expectations this season, can someone tell me please what our expectation is/was?

Well, presumably if Hodgson's CV isn't impressing you lot, perhaps your expectation was higher than it should have been?

I dont get this..TWERP, are you actually saying Liverpool fans shouldnt be expecting to be higher than 19th in the league after 8 games?

borocooper wrote:I dont get this..TWERP, are you actually saying Liverpool fans shouldnt be expecting to be higher than 19th in the league after 8 games?

Err, no ginger. I'm not. Not at all. GR was criticising Hodgson's CV. A CV full of examples of Woy taking over struggling clubs/nations and improving them. That is the kind of manager they were right to go for.

That is what I'm actually saying Mr Cooper.

This is a mutually exclusive point from how Hodgson and Liverpool are currently doing. Which Liverpool fans have every right to be upset / disgusted / suicidal about

I see, I think I got it from "It's just a shame Woy went, as it's a poison chalice that job, so much misplaced expectation."

His CV is okay..he's took over a few clubs and made them a bit better. He also took over an English club and fucked them..now he's doing it to Liverpool. So Fulham aside, perhaps he's just shit in this country.

borocooper wrote:I see, I think I got it from "It's just a shame Woy went, as it's a poison chalice that job, so much misplaced expectation."

His CV is okay..he's took over a few clubs and made them a bit better. He also took over an English club and fucked them..now he's doing it to Liverpool. So Fulham aside, perhaps he's just shit in this country.

In hindsight, the "misplaced expectation" comment was unfair.

He had a poor start to his Fulham career too gaining 9 points from 13 games, so it's debatable whether this is going to be a Blackburn or Fulham yet.

Oh, "made them a bit better" is a little understatement, when he took over Copenhagen for example, they hadn't won the league for 8 years and he won it in his first season. Fulham were a bit better than they were when they were languishing in the relegation zone and got into Europe and a UEFA cup final. Switzerland hadn't qualified for a World Cup in 30 years. But yeah, he's not Mourinho or Fergle

He just appears to be a mong.

Laughing at the end of a 2-0 defeat to Everton is stupid.
I didnt see much of Torres when he was "flying around" so I dont know how unfit he is now.
We played well today and didnt deserve to lose.

Spastic comments.

Tom Werner sounds a bit like classic Willy Wonka when he's being interviewed.

borocooper wrote:He just appears to be a mong.

Laughing at the end of a 2-0 defeat to Everton is stupid.
I didnt see much of Torres when he was "flying around" so I dont know how unfit he is now.
We played well today and didnt deserve to lose.

Spastic comments.

Yep, agreed. It's very odd how though, given his observations / interviews as a Fulham manager he could do no wrong. Similar thing is happening with Capello for England - both had good reputations and seemed like sensible appointments, but increasingly odd decisions and mistakes are making a mockery of their experience and ability.

Had a long post typed out, but laptop crashed. So I might get back to this tomorrow, though in truth it would be a collection of what I've been saying over the last 3 months.

But in short, the generalization some people set upon Liverpool is extraordinarily bullshit. Fair enough there are some people doing it for the banter but a few here are just mind boggling with their persistent Sky-esque comments.

I know my minimal target was a top 6 finish pre-season, I know from the Reds I know personally that they would have agreed with this. Top 4 would have been been superb but that was always going to be difficult.. achievable I believed but very difficult.

I don't see how things will improve. I just don't. As said earlier in the day -

Ade wrote:Last year, we...................

1. beat Everton with 10 men at home
2. beat Utd at home
3. beat Benfica decisively at home
4. beat Aston Villa away
5. beat Spurs at home

Good performances AND results dotted throughout the course of the season. We finished 7th, which wasn't acceptable of course.

Under Hodgson, I have seen nothing to suggest we would be acceptable of any of the above performances or anything developing to that standard.

Joke? Clearly is for him, chuckling away

There were moments where I could believe we'll salvage our season under Rafa.

Ade wrote:Last year, we...................

1. beat Everton with 10 men at home
2. beat Utd at home
3. beat Benfica decisively at home
4. beat Aston Villa away
5. beat Spurs at home

Good performances AND results dotted throughout the course of the season. We finished 7th, which wasn't acceptable of course.

Under Hodgson, I have seen nothing to suggest we would be acceptable of any of the above performances or anything developing to that standard.

Joke? Clearly is for him, chuckling away

That was the most sucker-punchy smash-and-grab imaginable - do not be citing it as evidence you were any good last season!

debaser wrote:

Ade wrote:Last year, we...................

1. beat Everton with 10 men at home
2. beat Utd at home
3. beat Benfica decisively at home
4. beat Aston Villa away
5. beat Spurs at home

Good performances AND results dotted throughout the course of the season. We finished 7th, which wasn't acceptable of course.

Under Hodgson, I have seen nothing to suggest we would be acceptable of any of the above performances or anything developing to that standard.

Joke? Clearly is for him, chuckling away

That was the most sucker-punchy smash-and-grab imaginable - do not be citing it as evidence you were any good last season!

We won it though. We won against a side away from home who were competing for a top 4 spot. Sometimes no analysis needs to be given so long as you get that crucial result.

When we play this season I'm sure you'll beat us fairly easily and without much fight from us.
I'm frankly worried for next week vs Blackburn.. at home!

The other games mentioned above performance wise were excellent though. But as said with these matches they all restored some faith and showed we were capable of getting a result.

Ade wrote:

debaser wrote:

Ade wrote:Last year, we...................

1. beat Everton with 10 men at home
2. beat Utd at home
3. beat Benfica decisively at home
4. beat Aston Villa away
5. beat Spurs at home

Good performances AND results dotted throughout the course of the season. We finished 7th, which wasn't acceptable of course.

Under Hodgson, I have seen nothing to suggest we would be acceptable of any of the above performances or anything developing to that standard.

Joke? Clearly is for him, chuckling away

That was the most sucker-punchy smash-and-grab imaginable - do not be citing it as evidence you were any good last season!

We won it though. We won against a side away from home who were competing for a top 4 spot. Sometimes no analysis needs to be given so long as you get that crucial result.

When we play this season I'm sure you'll beat us fairly easily and without much fight from us.
I'm frankly worried for next week vs Blackburn.. at home!

The other games mentioned above performance wise were excellent though. But as said with these matches they all restored some faith and showed we were capable of getting a result.

Don't be a silly sausage - I can see why you'd be pessismistic, but the fact is Liverpool will turn it around. When, who knows. But they will. As bad as Pool have been, they're still better than Blackburn. And it will be proven next weekend.

Wouldn't bet on it Noah. We've been outplayed by every team we have faced in the league this season.

We'll also have Poulsen coming straight back in making it even more difficult