Premier League Discussion - 23/24 October 2010

Saturday, 23 October 2010
Tottenham v Everton
Birmingham v Blackpool
Chelsea v Wolverhampton
Sunderland v Aston Villa
West Brom v Fulham
Wigan v Bolton
West Ham v Newcastle

Sunday, 24 October 2010
Stoke v Man Utd
Liverpool v Blackburn
Man City v Arsenal

Gareth Bale vs Phil Neville/Tony Hibbert - can't wait to see it...

This is a massive game for City. If they win then Chelsea need to be seriously worried about them. I wonder if Adebayor will start after his hatrick in Europe...can't see it unless Mancini is planning to play Tevez slightly deeper than usual.

Luis wrote:This is a massive game for City. If they win then Chelsea need to be seriously worried about them. I wonder if Adebayor will start after his hatrick in Europe...can't see it unless Mancini is planning to play Tevez slightly deeper than usual.

Man City are fucking average, if they hadn't had 6 dodgy decisions in their favour in the past 2 games they would be somewhere between 6th and 9th.

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:This is a massive game for City. If they win then Chelsea need to be seriously worried about them. I wonder if Adebayor will start after his hatrick in Europe...can't see it unless Mancini is planning to play Tevez slightly deeper than usual.

Man City are fucking average, if they hadn't had 6 dodgy decisions in their favour in the past 2 games they would be somewhere between 6th and 9th.

Most teams are average Kimmy. City are still better than 17 or 18 other teams in the league and have a much better squad with the ability to bring more quality in. Accept it.

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"Of course Sunday is the ideal opportunity to do this.

"Unfortunately Blackburn will have something to say about that. They won't be lying down."

Hodgson believes a slice of luck is all the Reds need to find their feet and is confident they will soon become upwardly mobile.

"What I am hoping for is a little bit luck so the result (against Blackburn) goes our way whether we play well or play badly," he added.

"That will give ourselves a bit of breathing space in order to start rebuilding and trying to move up the table rather than finding ourselves marooned at the bottom."

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:This is a massive game for City. If they win then Chelsea need to be seriously worried about them. I wonder if Adebayor will start after his hatrick in Europe...can't see it unless Mancini is planning to play Tevez slightly deeper than usual.

Man City are fucking average, if they hadn't had 6 dodgy decisions in their favour in the past 2 games they would be somewhere between 6th and 9th.

Most teams are average Kimmy. City are still better than 17 or 18 other teams in the league and have a much better squad with the ability to bring more quality in. Accept it.

Only on paper. They're definitely not worth Chelsea worrying about. If it wasn't for those 2 gifts in a row they would be in the waffa cup spots and we would be sneering at how they're going to miss out on the CL again.

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

Luis wrote:This is a massive game for City. If they win then Chelsea need to be seriously worried about them. I wonder if Adebayor will start after his hatrick in Europe...can't see it unless Mancini is planning to play Tevez slightly deeper than usual.

Man City are fucking average, if they hadn't had 6 dodgy decisions in their favour in the past 2 games they would be somewhere between 6th and 9th.

Most teams are average Kimmy. City are still better than 17 or 18 other teams in the league and have a much better squad with the ability to bring more quality in. Accept it.

Only on paper. They're definitely not worth Chelsea worrying about. If it wasn't for those 2 gifts in a row they would be in the waffa cup spots and we would be sneering at how they're going to miss out on the CL again.

Happens in football all the time. I reckon we played much better football in 2008/2009 than United, especially in the second half of the season and deserved to win the title but they got a bit more luck than us and ended up winning it. City may have some undeserved wins on the board but you need them to win the title. Their potential bench pisses on the bench Chelsea had vs Villa so if I was Ancelotti I'd see them as my main contenders for the title, especially seeing as we're only 8 games in and they have another 100-200 million to spend in January.

Man City had the same number of points at this stage last season. They've been mostly good defensively, but their wins haven't been convincing in terms of suggesting a massive improvement. Granted, the likes of Silva still adapting, but I can't see them being within 10 points of Chelsea come the end of the season and I think they'll have a fight to be top 4.

debaser wrote:Man City had the same number of points at this stage last season. They've been mostly good defensively, but their wins haven't been convincing in terms of suggesting a massive improvement. Granted, the likes of Silva still adapting, but I can't see them being within 10 points of Chelsea come the end of the season and I think they'll have a fight to be top 4.

Particularly now the disloyal mercenary shitRooney is staying at ManYoo.

Fair enough if that's what you predict but I would be amazed if they didn't comfortably finish in the top 4. Arsenal are yet to really convince me, United have been rubbish (which obviously isn't getting much press.) Liverpool are nowhere to be seen and Spurs will find it too tough to balance the CL and league IMO.

Luis wrote:Fair enough if that's what you predict but I would be amazed if they didn't comfortably finish in the top 4. Arsenal are yet to really convince me, United have been rubbish (which obviously isn't getting much press.) Liverpool are nowhere to be seen and Spurs will find it too tough to balance the CL and league IMO.

This isn't true Luis. Loads of articles have talked about ManYoo throwing away 2 goal leads, and how they've dropped more points from winning positions so far this season than they did the whole of last season.

But by all means just tell lies to support the persecution complex of Liverpool supporters.

It's not just him, their averageness has been glossed over by a football-obsessed British media for a couple of years now.

Three wins from eight is poor but hasn't really been discussed in much depth, not in proportion to what you might expect, just maybe that their defence is looking a bit dodgy these days (obviously the way they tend to finish seasons often makes up for this not atypical start).

On a board like this you can say that the best team in the league/country in 2008/9 was not them, but Liverpool; in the mnainstream media, you can't.

Allez les rouges wrote:It's not just him, their averageness has been glossed over by a football-obsessed British media for a couple of years now.

Three wins from eight is poor but hasn't really been discussed in much depth, not in proportion to what you might expect, just maybe that their defence is looking a bit dodgy these days (obviously the way they tend to finish seasons often makes up for this not atypical start).

On a board like this you can say that the best team in the league/country in 2008/9 was not them, but Liverpool; in the mnainstream media, you can't.

This.

All I've heard about United this season is Wayne Rooney. Don't pretend United have had as much criticism as Rafa got for similar form at the start of last season.

Allez les rouges wrote:It's not just him, their averageness has been glossed over by a football-obsessed British media for a couple of years now.

Three wins from eight is poor but hasn't really been discussed in much depth, not in proportion to what you might expect, just maybe that their defence is looking a bit dodgy these days (obviously the way they tend to finish seasons often makes up for this not atypical start).

On a board like this you can say that the best team in the league/country in 2008/9 was not them, but Liverpool; in the mnainstream media, you can't.

A board like this that is full of Liverpool and Arsenal supporters, you mean? No surprises there.

I have seen a lot of criticism of ManYoo this season. Two days ago the press was full of the 'end of an era?' crap about Rooney. Their debt gets covered in primetime BBC documentaries. A lot of their failings are glossed over, but no more than other top teams. The British sporting press is incompetent and replete with double standards - hardly a revolutionary observation, that...

Luis wrote:All I've heard about United this season is Wayne Rooney.

Pay more attention.

Don't pretend United have had as much criticism as Rafa got for similar form at the start of last season.

Rafa won one in ten games in this period last season. That's an utterly stupid comparison.

How much criticism have Liverpool/Wodge got for their form so far this year? Not as much as Rafa got last season. How does your scouser victim mentality explain that?

Boneyskank wrote:

Luis wrote:All I've heard about United this season is Wayne Rooney.

Pay more attention.

Don't pretend United have had as much criticism as Rafa got for similar form at the start of last season.

Rafa won one in ten games in this period last season. That's an utterly stupid comparison.

How much criticism have Liverpool/Wodge got for their form so far this year? Not as much as Rafa got last season. How does your scouser victim mentality explain that?

The criticism for large parts was that Roy has had it tough with a mess that Rafa created and left behind. The likes of Hansen, Lawrenson and Sky were all loving it when Rafa got sacked and calling for his head but none of them have explicitly doubted Hodgson's ability to do this job long term. That's the difference.

If it's a British manager then the criticism is much less than a foreign one. That's just a fact, which as you say isn't really revolutionary.

United have been really poor this season, they've won only 3 out of their 8 league games, yet all the focus is on Rooney.

Liverpool have been dreadful this season and everyone from Rafa to Torres to Poulsen to Konchesky are getting slated and happily by the aforementioned pundits.

I expected some remark about Arsenal/Liverpool fans, and it's all relative to what you expect I guess.

Of course there's been some criticism, but one rarely reads sentiments to the effect that United are pretty average, and have been managing to cover it up for some time. Which is fair enough in a way when they still manage to win a League Cup, finish only a point behind Chelsea and all the rest – a deal of it is obscured by the poverty of the opposition with the arguable exception of Chelsea, but only so much. In other circumstances, or perhaps with another team, their timid 3-0 capitulation to Fulham last season, for instance, would have met with more scathing and ruthless analysis, particularly given the obsessive nature of the football media.

Luis wrote:United have been really poor this season, they've won only 3 out of their 8 league games, yet all the focus is on Rooney.

They've won 2/3 games in the CL without conceding a goal.

They've only failed to score in one game so far.

They've thrown away wins in three matches, which they've rightly been criticised for doing.

They are on as many points as their direct competitors, with the exception of City thanks to a pair of lucky results against Newcastle and Blackpool.

They haven't been 'very poor' at all. That's just bollocks. Going forward they've been better than they were last year.

Boneyskank wrote:

Luis wrote:United have been really poor this season, they've won only 3 out of their 8 league games, yet all the focus is on Rooney.

They've won 2/3 games in the CL without conceding a goal.

They've only failed to score in one game so far.

They've thrown away wins in three matches, which they've rightly been criticised for doing.

They are on as many points as their direct competitors, with the exception of City thanks to a pair of lucky results against Newcastle and Blackpool.

They haven't been 'very poor' at all. That's just bollocks. Going forward they've been better than they were last year.

So City's wins are lucky but United have been getting lucky wins with plenty of own goals to help them along the way for years and the media don't seem to take an interest in this.

Are they better going forward? How can that be when their best forward has been utter garbage this season?

Allez les rouges wrote:I expected some remark about Arsenal/Liverpool fans, and it's all relative to what you expect I guess.

I expect the media to not give enough credit to smaller teams and not give enough criticism to bigger teams. Man Utd are no exception in this regard, but they are hardly the worst example. There is far, far, far more coverage of their financial situation than ANY other club in the league.

By comparison, 75% of Arsenal's points so far this year have been gained through soft sendings off and penalties, which hasn't been mentioned even once. You want to talk covering up for mediocrity, look in your own back yard.

Of course there's been some criticism, but one rarely reads sentiments to the effect that United are pretty average, and have been managing to cover it up for some time. Which is fair enough in a way when they still manage to win a League Cup, finish only a point behind Chelsea and all the rest – a deal of it is obscured by the poverty of the opposition with the arguable exception of Chelsea, but only so much. In other circumstances, or perhaps with another team, their timid 3-0 capitulation to Fulham last season, for instance, would have met with more scathing and ruthless analysis, particularly given the obsessive nature of the football media.

ManYoo went into that game against Fulham with Carrick and Fletcher in their back four. It was a poor performance, it was for the most part glossed over, but it's hardly the worst crime of the British sporting press.

Luis wrote:So City's wins are lucky but United have been getting lucky wins with plenty of own goals to help them along the way for years and the media don't seem to take an interest in this.

No, two of City's recent wins have been lucky, and without them they'd be on the same number or less points than Man Utd, and hence Man Utd would have the same points as all of their direct competitors. Y'know, what I already said.

Are they better going forward? How can that be when their best forward has been utter garbage this season?

Football is a team game. Scholes started the season brightly, Berbatov has been much better so far this year, Hernandez has done very well for a new signings in a new league, Nani has been more consistent, etc. etc. Plus, as I said, they have hardly struggled to score goals so far this year, having scored at least two goals in every league game so far except the rather dire performance against Sunderland.

Nani, Scholes and Berbatov have all produced enough in attack to fill the Rooney gap.

Utd's main problems are defence and (still) over-reliance on the oldies.

They've got lots to do long term, but in the immediate term they'd be doing a lot better if they weren't having to play Johnny Evans and John O'Shea all the time..Needed to get proper replacements for Neville and Ferdinand in the summer.

Allez les rouges wrote:I expected some remark about Arsenal/Liverpool fans, and it's all relative to what you expect I guess.

Of course there's been some criticism, but one rarely reads sentiments to the effect that United are pretty average, and have been managing to cover it up for some time. Which is fair enough in a way when they still manage to win a League Cup, finish only a point behind Chelsea and all the rest – a deal of it is obscured by the poverty of the opposition with the arguable exception of Chelsea, but only so much. In other circumstances, or perhaps with another team, their timid 3-0 capitulation to Fulham last season, for instance, would have met with more scathing and ruthless analysis, particularly given the obsessive nature of the football media.

What kind of analysis? Playing Carrick and Fletcher, as well as player known as Ctrl Alt Delete (credit to Glenn from what I've remember) as defenders was rightfully analysed and put as a no 1 reason for that loss.

That's not my point, which is a wider one...

Their apparently desperately drab performance in midweek is indeed described as such, but no thesis actually coming out and labelling them as mediocre emerges from a largely supine if not fawning media, or if it ever does, that's only just starting now.

Yes the financial issues, as well as their defensive problems, have been discussed ad nauseam.

I'm not really taking any suggestion that I should "look closer to home" too seriously, as Arsenal's deficiencies are regularly and repetitiously rehearsed and savaged, by fans and non-fans. Yeah you're going to have a problem if you resent the praise accorded to the decent wins along the way.

I'm not talking about Arsenal's deficiencies. I'm talking about their 'luck' with refereeing decisions - Man Utd's equivalent 'luck' having been the topic of a certain press conference by a certain Spanish waiter.

Spurs will win the league. You heard it here first

Tottenham: Gomes, Hutton, Kaboul, Gallas, Assou-Ekotto, Lennon, Palacios, Modric, Bale, Van der Vaart, Crouch.
Subs: Cudicini, Jenas, Pavlyuchenko, Keane, Bassong, Kranjcar, Sandro.
Everton: Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Distin, Neville, Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga, Pienaar, Baines, Yakubu, Cahill.
Subs: Mucha, Hibbert, Saha, Beckford, Gueye, Duffy, Baxter.

A lot of shuffling around in Everton's line-up because of Osman's and Arteta's latest injuries, probably Pienaar will play as CM (he did well last season at home vs M.City) alongside Heitinga, with Coleman and Billy out wide, and Baines/Neville as full backs.

Great fk from Baines, 1-0 to Everton

Baines > Bale????

Perfect FK that