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    El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:04 am

    runaldo lol! , Ozil and Cesc were gash but the latter gets away with it due to the goal.

    Should have bought Danny instead of runaldo and Silva instead of Ozil.

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    Post by Kroos Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:13 am

    özil has been shit the whole season (for his standards) its a typical 2nd year slump

    he should reach another level next year Wink
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    Post by fcb Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:46 pm

    This is in Marca today lol!

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    Jaime
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    Post by Jaime Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:51 pm

    Fitting.
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    Post by Ä Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:06 pm

    German take on the game

    another massively disappointing game by Özil

    as Bernd Schuster already noted

    Mesut always seems to leave the pitch a loser in the really big games

    I have said it a million times as well

    with regards to the Mannschaft and the next Euros, he is good enough for the group stages, second round, QF

    but NOT NEARLY good enough to win us the game against the likes of Spain in the semis or the final

    ( same of course applies to Götze or Kroos )

    as for Khedira

    underlined once again that his good game against Holland the other day is the exception to the rule

    hopelessly overrated

    would probably not even make my Germany squad

    ----------

    Barca winning was a HUGE setback for Germany's ambitions to win Euro 2012

    Löw as well as many players have an obsession with Spain/Barca

    Real/Özil/Khedira beating Barca/Spain would have been a MASSIVE confidence boost

    as it stands

    if the MAnnschaft played Spain tomorrow, with Özil/Khedira on the pitch

    they would be even more terrified than before

    so FUCK YOU, Mourinho/Ronaldo/Özil... for undermining Das VATERLAND

    Grr

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    Post by TITO Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:39 pm

    Some good analysis, i think is from Sky sports.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNKJ_rrqrEE

    Some more Marcelo analysis Very Happy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNPEKhvInts&feature=youtu.be
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    Post by Jaime Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:42 pm

    Marcelo is a d!ck there is nobody who is questioning this.
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    Post by Fade out Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:48 pm

    Looking at the comments in that video clip, I fear for humanity..
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    Post by fcb Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:45 pm

    Good article by Jonathan Wilson, explaining Pep's tactical victory over Mourinho:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jonathan_wilson/12/11/real.madrid.barcelona.clasico/


    There are still those, remarkably, who ask whether tactics really matter, still those who persist with the Luddite insistence that the best players will win out come what may. No matter that Lionel Messi never produces his Barcelona form for Argentina or that Dani Alves regularly flounders for Brazil, Barcelona, these flat-earthers keep saying, win because they have the best players.

    What happened in the Bernabeu on Saturday, surely, will disabuse them. Good players are important, of course, but this was a game turned on a tactical shift, a game Barcelona won because Pep Guardiola came up with a formation to which Jose Mourinho could not find an answer.

    For the first quarter of the game, Barca was rattled. Real Madrid, slightly surprisingly starting not with a 4-3-3 but with a 4-2-3-1, pressed hard and fast, often an effective line of five bearing down on the man in possession, with just Lassana Diarra (used as a midfield anchor and not, as many had expected, as a right back, where Fabio Coentrao fought an increasingly vain battle to stop Andres Iniesta) left to support the back four.

    It was the speed of that pressing, allied to an ill-conceived and ill-executed pass from Victor Valdes and some doziness from Gerard Pique, that led to Real Madrid's opener, and it also prevented Barca developing anything like its usual fluency or rhythm early on. Barca's system was a little odd, resembling less the familiar 4-3-3 with a false nine than a 4-4-1-1 or perhaps a 4-3-2-1. Alexis Sanchez, beginning to the left, worked across the forward line, with Lionel Messi less a false nine than an orthodox 10, tucked behind him. Cesc Fabregas had what was presumably intended as a free role, but he often seemed too advanced, denying Xavi and Iniesta the simple short passing options on which they thrive.

    In those opening stages, Real looked dominant and, frankly, it seemed the title was already won, that it was time to invoke the Three-Year Rule of the great Hungarian coach Bela Guttmann and point out how rarely even the very best sides, and particularly those based on intense pressing, sustain their success into a fourth season.

    But midway through the half, Guardiola made the tactical switch that turned the game and, perhaps, the season. Dani Alves was pushed forward into an attacking right-sided midfield role, with Carles Puyol moving over to right back, a more naturally defensive presence to stifle Cristiano Ronaldo, who was further neutered by the way Alves was able to prevent Marcelo getting forward to support him. Ronaldo's contribution, while not overly significant early on, dwindled to zero after that, one badly misplaced header and a couple of unsuccessful free-kicks his only notably involvement in the second half. By the end, Mourinho had shifted him to the right, away from the attentions of Puyol, but by then the game was lost.

    That meant Sergio Busquets dropping into the back four, although he continued to step out into midfield. In turn, Xavi and Fabregas fell deeper, with Iniesta going wider to the left, Messi floating in a trequartista position, and Sanchez becoming the central forward. It was the triangular interchange of Alves, so much better as an attacking wide man who makes the odd tackle than as an orthodox fullback, Sanchez and Messi that proved key in an attacking sense.

    That was seen most obviously with the third goal, a superb break begun when Pique won possession and fed Iniesta, who darted through two challenges before giving the ball to Messi. He laid it on for Alves, whose cross was perfect for Fabregas, arriving late, to score with a diving header.

    The equalizer came from Messi dropping deep away from any markers, picking up possession and surging forward to tee up Sanchez. In the Super Cup, Mourinho had used Ricardo Carvalho to track the Argentine, but the fact he was not a false nine here and had Sanchez ahead of him meant the two center backs had to stay in place. Perhaps if Mourinho had used three holding midfielders, one of them could have tracked Messi, but he opted for the extra creator in Mesut Ozil who could facilitate the high press -- and for 20 minutes or so, he seemed to have got it right.

    Just as important as the Messi-Alves-Sanchez triangle was the battle between Ozil and Busquets. Dropping in to the back four gave Busquets more time and space and allowed him to initiate moves in the way he usually does, away from the intentions of Ozil. Leaving the opposing playmaker free is a gamble, of course, but it worked here, not least because Ozil is not a particularly quick distributor, almost an old-fashioned No. 10 who takes a second or two to weigh up his options. Often that ability to create calm -- what Argentines revere as "la pausa" -- in the hurly-burly of a game is an asset; here it gave Barca breathing space, and Busquets was able to step out and close Ozil down.

    This, perhaps, is the ultimate result of Guardiola's use of a back three this season: on Saturday, he played with a back three-and-a-half, with Busquets operating partly as a center back and partly as a holding midfielder, to an extent doing what fullbacks have been doing for years, and using the space afforded defenders in an attacking sense. That development was logical and could be foreseen.

    What is startling, though, is the juxtaposition of Busquets' role with the events of Thursday evening, when two sides -- Universidad de Chile in winning the first leg of its Copa Sudamericana final away to Liga de Quito and Rwanda in its Cecafa Cup semifinal win over Sudan -- used a 3-1-4-2. There is, it might be added, a common source in that Guardiola and Universidad de Chile's coach Jorge Sampaoli, are both devotees of Marcelo Bielsa.

    Perhaps that is the future, revealed on three continents in the space of 48 hours. More prosaically, Saturday was about Barca reasserting itself, about showing it has not gone stale. Guttmann always insisted that after three years at a club either the manager or the players had to be got rid of to prevent staleness and complacency. Guardiola has tinkered with personnel, but more crucially, his side is still evolving tactically, and that gives him options like the one he invoked on Saturday.

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    Post by Fade out Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:54 am

    I really think the big difference between both sides is Messi. Ronaldo is what Messi is not. Ronaldo cut inside beating couple of players, but resorts to shooting despite other options to pass. OR when Benzema found him with reverse pass, him not choosing to put Di Maria one-on-one against Valdes. OTOH, Messi was able to show his magic by that run & touch pass to Alexis. That changed the game.

    Slice of luck in that deflected goal couldn't accounted for, by tactics.
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    Post by fcb Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:05 am

    I don't think it's just down to the team's best player vs. another. You look at Iniesta's performance and compare it to Di Maria - worlds apart. Puyol vs. Coentrao? No contest. Pique vs. Pepe? No contest. Only Benzema showed his face for Madrid (and Diarra for about 50 mins before going into nutter mode), yet he too was arguably matched by an excellent Alexis.

    All of Barça's players performed to their individual best...apart from Valdes and Cesc. Probably not even half of Madrid's players did better than 6 out of 10. Regardless of what tactics are in place, if your players make bad decisions and/or don't execute (overhit pass, bad cross, misdirected pass, etc.), you'll lose.
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    Post by Fade out Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:07 am

    Hence proved my point. Thank you.
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    Post by Isco Benny Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:21 am

    Jaime wrote:Marcelo is a d!ck there is nobody who is questioning this.

    So him celebrating getting Crouch sent off wasn't a one off?

    Good player though.

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    Post by Jaime Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:18 pm

    Noah und der Bale wrote:
    Jaime wrote:Marcelo is a d!ck there is nobody who is questioning this.

    So him celebrating getting Crouch sent off wasn't a one off?

    Good player though.


    Nope, he is always up to some kind of antics. He is a great footballer but he and Dani Alves are president and vice president of the AFC*.

    *Association of Footballing C*nts
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    Post by messiah Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:57 pm

    I would like to just say, that this is what you get for hiring a manager based on a CL SF, with such a huge external circumstance, when a team had to travel almost 1000km in two days.



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    Post by Fade out Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:06 pm

    S4P
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    Post by S4P Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:48 am

    messiah wrote:I would like to just say, that this is what you get for hiring a manager based on a CL SF, with such a huge external circumstance, when a team had to travel almost 1000km in two days.




    Well it doesn't look good for you at the Club World Cup. If travelling 1,000km on a luxurious coach is not comfortable enough, imagine what effect travelling 10,000km on a plane, with the extra hassle of going through airports and the time difference, is going to have on your team. Yikes
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    Post by messiah Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:49 am

    S4P wrote:
    messiah wrote:I would like to just say, that this is what you get for hiring a manager based on a CL SF, with such a huge external circumstance, when a team had to travel almost 1000km in two days.




    Well it doesn't look good for you at the Club World Cup. If travelling 1,000km on a luxurious coach is not comfortable enough, imagine what effect travelling 10,000km on a plane, with the extra hassle of going through airports and the time difference, is going to have on your team. Yikes

    Good comparison
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    Post by S4P Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:35 pm

    I know you're being sarcastic but it's obviously not a good comparison. Travelling to Japan on a plane is worse than travelling to Italy on a very comfortable bus.
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    Post by fcb Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:05 pm

    I agree. In fact, 3 days of rest in Japan before your semifinal game against a Qatari side is also worse than 1 day of rest in Italy before your semifinal against one of Europe's top teams.
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    Post by TITO Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:43 pm

    The next Clasico is tomorrow and it looks like nobody gives a shit. Laughing
    For the first time in i dont know how many Clasico's before it's not mentioned at all and it's probably the most anticipated La Liga game of the season.
    I expect a 7-0 win for us, as usual.
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    Post by fcb Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:51 pm

    TITO wrote:The next Clasico is tomorrow and it looks like nobody gives a shit. Laughing
    For the first time in i dont know how many Clasico's before it's not mentioned at all and it's probably the most anticipated La Liga game of the season.
    I expect a 7-0 win for us, as usual.

    Yeah exactly. The defeats in the CL have brought both the giants down to earth and made them pre-occupied with next week's 2nd legs.

    I reckon Madrid will come out with their usual high pressure and attack, so our players need to stay calm and circulate the ball quickly in the first 20-25 mins. Don't rush into bad passes (yes, you, Valdes) and then gradually they'll be able to settle more in the game as Madrid tire and get conservative to go for a draw.

    Pedro or Cuenca must start. Both if Alexis is injured. I don't want any Iniesta or Cesc on the wing bullshit, because if we don't stretch the play and get at Arbeloa/Marcelo/Coentrao, we won't win.
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    Post by worms. Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:54 pm

    I give a shit but I must admit being more anxious over the SF on Tuesday, probably because even if we win El Classico the league is still not in our own hands,but the CL is.
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    Post by Jaime Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:07 am

    Won't be able to watch the match live unfortunately. Karanka says we are going to play the same as we did the last three times we played Barcelona. Whatever that is supposed to mean? Looks like Kaka is going to play from the start. And rumour is that Lass could be in the XI too after 8 matches of not playing. Rolling Eyes Well, as I've said all along, we have to get something out of this match. If we lose I would not bet on RM holding on to a one point lead over the last few weeks of the season. Barcelona will have the momentum and even Pep will have to say they have a good chance. We need to play a game that is deserving of a side that wants to be the champions. Hopefully Jose will go for it. And hopefully the players step it up, even though the match against Bayern is looming.

    HALA MADRID!

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    Post by worms. Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:42 am

    It will be interesting to see if Real play like they did last time when they had nothing to lose and were at their peak physically,they have more chance of winning that way than sitting deep but they are tired at the moment and with the Bayern tie coming up they might take a less exhausting approach.
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    Post by worms. Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:16 pm

    Sanchez is fit to play tonight ok
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    Post by fcb Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:01 pm

    Radio Marca claim to have an exclusive leak of Barça's lineup tonight:

    Valdés
    Alves, Mascherano, Puyol, Adriano
    Busquets, Xavi, Thiago
    Iniesta, Messi, Tello


    So no Pique again, and Cesc is dropped for Thiago with Tello starting instead of the injured Alexis. Interesting lineup, let's see if it's true.

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