Serie A 2011-12

Bogdan Stancu wrote:

Més que un club wrote:

Bogdan Stancu wrote:Milan should trade Ibra to City for Dzeko or get money and buy Cavani (or even Torres) if we want to win the CL again.

He does more harm to the team than good. I can live with not scoring when it matters but at least work for the team. Look at his game when he doesn't have the ball. He just stands.

This works in the league where you get poor defenders that he can bully. It doesn't works in the CL.

Ibra for Dzeko

Trade Ibra for Torres

You didn't see him rape Arsenal at the San Siro?

He had 2 pretty good games against us as well and done a beautiful assist,just as good as any other foward has played against us this season apart from maybe one game by Benzema.

I would take both Dzeko and Torres over Ibra.

Dzeko is a proven goal scorer in 2 leagues. It's a crime City don't use him more.

Same with Torres. People forget how good Torres was before Chelsea. The problem is with the team his playing for, not him. I think he would score 30+ goals per season if he played for Milan.

Against Arsenal I was more impressed with Robinho and Boateng, not Ibra.

I watch him every weekend when Milan is playing. He has 1 or 2 great moments in a game but for the rest of the time he's shit.

The things he does usually decide a game though, even when he and the entire team sucks. There are games where we shouldn't be winning, yet he pulls something out of the bag and it's 3 points to us. Look at Roma a couple of weeks ago for more recent example.

And Dzeko or Torres scoring 30+ for Milan? This Milan?!? With the non-existent service from midfield and wide areas? I'd bet the house against them scoring anywhere near 20, let alone 30.

In this side, Ibra is not only the goalscorer but the player who creates the majority of goalscoring chances others score. It's hardly a coincidence that ANTONIO NOCERINO of all people has scored 10 goals in the season already, or that guys like Boateng see their stock rise dramatically over a short period of time.

I'm no Ibra fanboy and he certainly does have his flaws, but swap him with Cavani/Dzeko/Torres and we don't get anywhere near the scudetto this season.

Bogdan Stancu wrote:Milan should trade Ibra to City for Dzeko or get money and buy Cavani (or even Torres) if we want to win the CL again.

He does more harm to the team than good. I can live with not scoring when it matters but at least work for the team. Look at his game when he doesn't have the ball. He just stands.

This works in the league where you get poor defenders that he can bully. It doesn't works in the CL.

Nope.

Not buying this excessive hate for Ibra.

Ibrahimovic was good I thought in the CL for us this season. Our problem is in the middle of the park. We should fix what is around Ibrahimovic, rather than get rid of him. And what is around him is depressing. Our midfield is not up to it. It needs an overhaul. Get rid of Ambrosini, Seedorf, and Flamini ASAP. Further up the park, I would get rid of Robinho, who wastes every chance that comes his way, and Pato before even thinking about getting rid of Ibra. And this is despite the fact that he is 30.

Also let's put things into perspective. We came up against the best club side with about 5 key players out. Still we did well enough, but ultimately we were not good enough (plus other factors that did not go our way). We made it one phase further than last year. Let's build on the positives, and get rid of the negatives. Overall Ibra is hugely positive for us. People seem to hate him for every pretext imaginable (I am not saying you). These are the following reasons that I have heard in the last few years:

1) He never does it on the European stage: this seems a bit flawed. In the knockout phases this year Ibra has scored once, and he has provided three assists. I feel he has matured quite a bit in his play from his Inter days, and you are not entirely correct saying he is static. He actually tracks back and does get the ball quite a bit. This is one thing about his game that has struck me this season.

2) He is a dirty player: He does see red and warm an ear or two, but this is not a chronic issue IMO. The guy is under tremendous pressure every game, physical and mental.

3) He earns too much: well he also delivers, a Scudetto to be precise...after 7 years

4) He is a Bosnian/Muslim thug: bizarre I know, but circulated every now and then.

The point is no way will management offload Ibra, and I am thankful for that. For 7 years prior to 2011 we were always behind Inter or Juventus. Ibrahimovic changed all of that and we have somewhat of a domestic dominance thing going right now that I don't want to wreck. Ibra has won us so many games, and he performed well in the CL.

What we need is to get rid of the following players (at least 3 of them):

Ambro, Seedorf, Pato, Flamini, Taiwo, Inzaghi.

We need to bring at least the following 3 (and these are realistic IMO):

Montolivo, Tevez, and a solid left-back, who can actually cross.

PS. Dzeko has flopped for City,he has 1 good game every 10 games.Other than that he's been shite.He is another player who struggles against deep defenses while playing for a team whos build up play is slow,Wolsberg used to be a counter attacking team who got plenty of crosses in the box.Pretty much the opposite of this Milan side.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Bogdan Stancu wrote:Milan should trade Ibra to City for Dzeko or get money and buy Cavani (or even Torres) if we want to win the CL again.

He does more harm to the team than good. I can live with not scoring when it matters but at least work for the team. Look at his game when he doesn't have the ball. He just stands.

This works in the league where you get poor defenders that he can bully. It doesn't works in the CL.

Nope.

Not buying this excessive hate for Ibra.

Ibrahimovic was good I thought in the CL for us this season. Our problem is in the middle of the park. We should fix what is around Ibrahimovic, rather than get rid of him. And what is around him is depressing. Our midfield is not up to it. It needs an overhaul. Get rid of Ambrosini, Seedorf, and Flamini ASAP. Further up the park, I would get rid of Robinho, who wastes every chance that comes his way, and Pato before even thinking about getting rid of Ibra. And this is despite the fact that he is 30.

Also let's put things into perspective. We came up against the best club side with about 5 key players out. Still we did well enough, but ultimately we were not good enough (plus other factors that did not go our way). We made it one phase further than last year. Let's build on the positives, and get rid of the negatives. Overall Ibra is hugely positive for us. People seem to hate him for every pretext imaginable (I am not saying you). These are the following reasons that I have heard in the last few years:

1) He never does it on the European stage: this seems a bit flawed. In the knockout phases this year Ibra has scored once, and he has provided three assists. I feel he has matured quite a bit in his play from his Inter days, and you are not entirely correct saying he is static. He actually tracks back and does get the ball quite a bit. This is one thing about his game that has struck me this season.

2) He is a dirty player: He does see red and warm an ear or two, but this is not a chronic issue IMO. The guy is under tremendous pressure every game, physical and mental.

3) He earns too much: well he also delivers, a Scudetto to be precise...after 7 years

4) He is a Bosnian/Muslim thug: bizarre I know, but circulated every now and then.

The point is no way will management offload Ibra, and I am thankful for that. For 7 years prior to 2011 we were always behind Inter or Juventus. Ibrahimovic changed all of that and we have somewhat of a domestic dominance thing going right now that I don't want to wreck. Ibra has won us so many games, and he performed well in the CL.

What we need is to get rid of the following players (at least 3 of them):

Ambro, Seedorf, Pato, Flamini, Taiwo, Inzaghi.

We need to bring at least the following 3 (and these are realistic IMO):

Montolivo, Tevez, and a solid left-back, who can actually cross.

+1

Cassano has been speaking, he's even hoping to return at some point v Fiorentina at the weekend!

Milan have also promised to cure Pato's problems and get him back fit , some sprint theories in todays gazzetta from stefano tilli, aformer sprinter, who says Pato's running style is all wrong,

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Nope.

Not buying this excessive hate for Ibra.

Ibrahimovic was good I thought in the CL for us this season. Our problem is in the middle of the park.

How was he good in the CL? He had a decent game against Arsenal at San Siro and that's it. In London he was shit, at home against Barca shit, away vs. Barca had one good pass, the rest of the game he was shit. In 4 games against Arsenal and Barca he has just 1 goal. And that was a penalty. This are the games that count.

Do you think it's a coincidence Inter won the CL after they got rid of him and got a real striker?

If you want to win titles Ibra can help you. There are enough poor teams in Serie A he can bully and win games. The league is decided by the ability to win against the small teams, not by what you do against the other contenders. That is not the case in the CL where you have to beat the big team in order to win.

And I'll take a guy that has scored 65 goals for Liverpool (did they have a creative midfield?) and showed he can do it in big games (like the Euro final) over Ibra.

This guy must really hate Ibra because he sounds demented.Ibra has been much better than Van Persie,Torres and Dzeko in the CL this year.Again if you think Torres would thrive in Serie A you don't understand much about football.

And the reason why Inter won the CL when Ibra left is because they practically swapped him for Eto'o,Sneider,Lucio,Pandev,Motta and Milito,all them good/great players they got with Ibras money.

Now Ibras a beast but he's not as good as all them put together is he?

Congrats to Ibra, for being better than Torres in the CL this year

Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

Sneijder & Alvarez still injured for Inter this weekend for that tricky away tie at Cagliari, while Cesar, Lucio and Maicon are also unavailable...

Squad:
Portieri: 12 Luca Castellazzi, 21 Paolo Orlandoni, 91 Raffaele Di Gennaro;
Difensori: 2 Ivan Ramiro Cordoba, 4 Javier Zanetti, 23 Andrea Ranocchia, 25 Walter Samuel, 26 Cristian Chivu, 37 Davide Faraoni, 40 Juan Jesus, 55 Yuto Nagatomo;
Centrocampisti: 5 Dejan Stankovic, 14 Fredy Guarin, 17 Angelo Palombo, 18 Andrea Poli, 19 Esteban Cambiasso, 20 Joel Obi;
Attaccanti: 7 Giampaolo Pazzini, 9 Diego Forlan, 22 Diego Milito, 28 Mauro Zarate

My guess on the line up:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You mean the through ball he played to Emanuelson who was completely free of defenders? It was good but hardly world class and certainly not a patch on Messi's pass to Xavi in the San Siro during the group stages.

What do we define as nice passes? I saw him make quite a few passes back to the defenders (one thing he did do which surprised me was a lot of tracking back). Would those be considered as nice? Yes they're good for ball retention but aren't damaging to the opposition.

He did OK, not exceptional, but OK. Arsenal aside, I've yet to see him be a real force in the knockout stages of the Champions League.

His impact in this years CL was no greater than Van Persie's. You fail to see this because you have an agenda.

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You mean the through ball he played to Emanuelson who was completely free of defenders? It was good but hardly world class and certainly not a patch on Messi's pass to Xavi in the San Siro during the group stages.

What do we define as nice passes? I saw him make quite a few passes back to the defenders (one thing he did do which surprised me was a lot of tracking back). Would those be considered as nice? Yes they're good for ball retention but aren't damaging to the opposition.

He did OK, not exceptional, but OK. Arsenal aside, I've yet to see him be a real force in the knockout stages of the Champions League.

His impact in this years CL was no greater than Van Persie's. You fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You didn't see his control before the Emaulson pass and it was brilliant vision as well.Ibra has been a world class striker for 5 or 6 years Van Persie has been world class for 1 and a half years.No comparison.Ibra has much more to his game than that goal hanger.

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You are right. For team like Milan and for a player like Ibra the GS games should not be a problem. I'm not impressed by Ibra scoring against Plezn or Bate or a meaningless game against Barca.

The games against top opposition matter. In 4 games he scored 1 goal from a penalty. That's poor.

Bogdan Stancu wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You are right. For team like Milan and for a player like Ibra the GS games should not be a problem. I'm not impressed by Ibra scoring against Plezn or Bate or a meaningless game against Barca.

The games against top opposition matter. In 4 games he scored 1 goal from a penalty. That's poor.

In 4 games the team scored 5 goals.

Ibra got 1 goal and 3 assists. Hardly 'poor'.

I agree his static type of play doesn't help forward mobility, but it is difficult to play when the team is about 50 yards behind you and you're a lone front compared to Serie A where there is more support and movement. No surprise that in the game where Milan actually attacked, Ibra was magnificent. In the 3 games where the team sat deeper, his use was limited. Should have scored that 1 v 1 though.

bluenine wrote:Sneijder & Alvarez still injured for Inter this weekend for that tricky away tie at Cagliari, while Cesar, Lucio and Maicon are also unavailable...

Squad:
Portieri: 12 Luca Castellazzi, 21 Paolo Orlandoni, 91 Raffaele Di Gennaro;
Difensori: 2 Ivan Ramiro Cordoba, 4 Javier Zanetti, 23 Andrea Ranocchia, 25 Walter Samuel, 26 Cristian Chivu, 37 Davide Faraoni, 40 Juan Jesus, 55 Yuto Nagatomo;
Centrocampisti: 5 Dejan Stankovic, 14 Fredy Guarin, 17 Angelo Palombo, 18 Andrea Poli, 19 Esteban Cambiasso, 20 Joel Obi;
Attaccanti: 7 Giampaolo Pazzini, 9 Diego Forlan, 22 Diego Milito, 28 Mauro Zarate

My guess on the line up:

Forlan - Milito - Zarate
Cambiasso - Stankovic - Guarin/Poli
Chivu - Samuel - Ranocchia - Zanetti
Castellazzi

I get the line up correct again...


And after 7 minutes, its already 1-1 by crazy Inter.... another 9 goal game?

Ambrosini needs to calm down, he's already on a yellow but if he calms down then he offers nothing

Bogdan Stancu wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You are right. For team like Milan and for a player like Ibra the GS games should not be a problem. I'm not impressed by Ibra scoring against Plezn or Bate or a meaningless game against Barca.

The games against top opposition matter. In 4 games he scored 1 goal from a penalty. That's poor.

He scored against top opposition,he scored against the 2 best teams he played in the CL this year,the only 2 good teams to be precise.

The TV camera is pissing me off!! It just can't follow the movement of the ball

Penalty!!! Courtesy of Maxi's dive

Here's a good stream

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/117441/1/watch-ac-milan-vs-ac-fiorentina.html

Pirlo wrote:

Bogdan Stancu wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You are right. For team like Milan and for a player like Ibra the GS games should not be a problem. I'm not impressed by Ibra scoring against Plezn or Bate or a meaningless game against Barca.

The games against top opposition matter. In 4 games he scored 1 goal from a penalty. That's poor.

In 4 games the team scored 5 goals.

Ibra got 1 goal and 3 assists. Hardly 'poor'.

I agree his static type of play doesn't help forward mobility, but it is difficult to play when the team is about 50 yards behind you and you're a lone front compared to Serie A where there is more support and movement. No surprise that in the game where Milan actually attacked, Ibra was magnificent. In the 3 games where the team sat deeper, his use was limited. Should have scored that 1 v 1 though.

I am not judging a striker by assists.

Brilliant ball by Ibra and Maxi nearly scored with a volley.

Bogdan Stancu wrote:

Pirlo wrote:

Bogdan Stancu wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:

S4P wrote:

La Liga > DPL wrote:Ibra has been brilliant in the CL this year.Easily been one of the best 5 strikers.

He had just 1 shot on goal in the 2 games against Barcelona and only made 1 telling pass. I would hardly call that brilliant.

I didn't realize the only games that count in the Cl are the ones against us.Let's just ignore his game against us in the group stages where he was one of the best players on the pitch and he scored.

I am actually doubting you watched the 2 games against us in the knockout stages because of the fact you said he made only 1 telling pass.What about that world class control then pass that he done to set Emaulson up against us in the 1st leg which he should have scored from?I doubt Messi could even do that.He made lots of nice passes,more than any other forward has against us as seen as we dominated possession so much.

His link up play was very good,you fail to see this because you have an agenda.

You are right. For team like Milan and for a player like Ibra the GS games should not be a problem. I'm not impressed by Ibra scoring against Plezn or Bate or a meaningless game against Barca.

The games against top opposition matter. In 4 games he scored 1 goal from a penalty. That's poor.

In 4 games the team scored 5 goals.

Ibra got 1 goal and 3 assists. Hardly 'poor'.

I agree his static type of play doesn't help forward mobility, but it is difficult to play when the team is about 50 yards behind you and you're a lone front compared to Serie A where there is more support and movement. No surprise that in the game where Milan actually attacked, Ibra was magnificent. In the 3 games where the team sat deeper, his use was limited. Should have scored that 1 v 1 though.

I am not judging a striker by assists.

Your sole criteria for judging a striker is the amount of goals they score? Darren Bent scored more than Torres nowadays Milan should get him to replace Ibra.Or Defoe,Defoe is faster and works harder than Ibra and scores goals to!

Defoe>>>>Ibra

Emanuelson showed some skills tho' he's been shit so far

So are Milan definitely going to get Montolivo on a free transfer?

Maxi making a path for Ibra.. Ibra should have shot with his left

La Liga > DPL wrote:So are Milan definitely going to get Montolivo on a free transfer?

Hope so, something like....

------Montolivo
Aquilani----Nocerino

sounds good to me

I was under the impression that Montolivo was a CM not a DM.