La Liga 2012/13 Season Thread

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:It's not stupid because Real Sociedad have negative spending as well. Valencia spent about 3 times as much on new players last summer.

But they've also made much more money by selling players...

Which gives them a bigger budget which means their expectations are a lot bigger. La Real are a small time club these days they've come out of nowhere played great football and imo deserve it more than Valencia who are basically turning into the Arsenal of Spanish football with no real ambition except to finish in CL places and then continue selling their best players so they can dream of a big new stadium. The only difference is the Nou Mestalla will probably never be finished!

Valencia have been inconsistent, but this bollocks about a bigger budget is a bit much. If V alencia is turned into a feeder club for big two, it will be disastrous for Spanish football. They needed to renovate or move and there was an agreement to buy the land in place before they started the New Mestalla project. That was reneged on and not by the club. Valencia need CL football and have a better chance of doing well in it. Which signings are you claiming are crap? What would have been better buys?

EMP wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:It's not stupid because Real Sociedad have negative spending as well. Valencia spent about 3 times as much on new players last summer.

But they've also made much more money by selling players...

Which gives them a bigger budget which means their expectations are a lot bigger. La Real are a small time club these days they've come out of nowhere played great football and imo deserve it more than Valencia who are basically turning into the Arsenal of Spanish football with no real ambition except to finish in CL places and then continue selling their best players so they can dream of a big new stadium. The only difference is the Nou Mestalla will probably never be finished!

Valencia have been inconsistent, but this bollocks about a bigger budget is a bit much. If V alencia is turned into a feeder club for big two, it will be disastrous for Spanish football. They needed to renovate or move and there was an agreement to buy the land in place before they started the New Mestalla project. That was reneged on and not by the club. Valencia need CL football and have a better chance of doing well in it. Which signings are you claiming are crap? What would have been better buys?

Pereira has been shit. Cissoko has been very average. Guardado meh. Valdez has scored a whopping 4 goals. What did Swansea pay for Michu 2m? Seems like he would have been a much better option. They don't even play Viera.

Anyhow, you can't argue. Valencia had a budget of over 100m euro for the 2012-13 season. La Real's budget was 40m.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be a disaster for Spanish football the state of Valencia. It is a disaster! But that doesn't change the fact that they still have more resources than la Real and that the president has spent the last few years saying that really they are only concerned with finishing 3rd. Even Atletico have shown more ambition.

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:It's not stupid because Real Sociedad have negative spending as well. Valencia spent about 3 times as much on new players last summer.

But they've also made much more money by selling players...

Which gives them a bigger budget which means their expectations are a lot bigger. La Real are a small time club these days they've come out of nowhere played great football and imo deserve it more than Valencia who are basically turning into the Arsenal of Spanish football with no real ambition except to finish in CL places and then continue selling their best players so they can dream of a big new stadium. The only difference is the Nou Mestalla will probably never be finished!

But most of the money they recover off selling players isn't spent on new players. The comparasin to Arsenal is a farcical one as Arsenal have the money to build a top team again and Valencia don't as unlike Arsenal they don't have a new stadium and are hundreds of million of pounds in debt.

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:It's not stupid because Real Sociedad have negative spending as well. Valencia spent about 3 times as much on new players last summer.

But they've also made much more money by selling players...

Which gives them a bigger budget which means their expectations are a lot bigger. La Real are a small time club these days they've come out of nowhere played great football and imo deserve it more than Valencia who are basically turning into the Arsenal of Spanish football with no real ambition except to finish in CL places and then continue selling their best players so they can dream of a big new stadium. The only difference is the Nou Mestalla will probably never be finished!

But most of the money they recover off selling players isn't spent on new players. The comparasin to Arsenal is a farcical one as Arsenal have the money to build a top team again and Valencia don't as unlike Arsenal they don't have a new stadium and are hundreds of million of pounds in debt.

Obviously it's a smaller scale but it's the exact same mentality.

At least with Atletico they are fighting to try and compete and they were closer to second place than anyone has been since Sevilla in 06/07.

Jaime wrote:

Luis wrote:

Jaime wrote:Atletico have announced that they will allow Falcao to move this summer.

Where do you think he'll end up?

If he was to come to the Premier League then you would think Chelsea or City.

Pellegrini likes him a lot. I think it will be City if he goes to England but the Spanish rumour mill seems convinced that he is going to Monaco.

Wtf? Am I missing something? Why would he go to a newly promoted French club?

blutgraetsche wrote:

That would be the ultimate disgrace if he goes there. Like Cavani signing for QPR ffs.

Jaime wrote:

EMP wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:It's not stupid because Real Sociedad have negative spending as well. Valencia spent about 3 times as much on new players last summer.

But they've also made much more money by selling players...

Which gives them a bigger budget which means their expectations are a lot bigger. La Real are a small time club these days they've come out of nowhere played great football and imo deserve it more than Valencia who are basically turning into the Arsenal of Spanish football with no real ambition except to finish in CL places and then continue selling their best players so they can dream of a big new stadium. The only difference is the Nou Mestalla will probably never be finished!

Valencia have been inconsistent, but this bollocks about a bigger budget is a bit much. If V alencia is turned into a feeder club for big two, it will be disastrous for Spanish football. They needed to renovate or move and there was an agreement to buy the land in place before they started the New Mestalla project. That was reneged on and not by the club. Valencia need CL football and have a better chance of doing well in it. Which signings are you claiming are crap? What would have been better buys?

Pereira has been shit. Cissoko has been very average. Guardado meh. Valdez has scored a whopping 4 goals. What did Swansea pay for Michu 2m? Seems like he would have been a much better option. They don't even play Viera.

Anyhow, you can't argue. Valencia had a budget of over 100m euro for the 2012-13 season. La Real's budget was 40m.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be a disaster for Spanish football the state of Valencia. It is a disaster! But that doesn't change the fact that they still have more resources than la Real and that the president has spent the last few years saying that really they are only concerned with finishing 3rd. Even Atletico have shown more ambition.

And haven't I repeatedly said that I have information that Manuel Llorente was a bigger puta than Soler and Koeman put together. This season had to be sacrificed in the early stages for the Curse to work its magic to get shot of him. I worked my voodoo and now you try to ruin it all. Curses will be issued if we miss out on all offenders. Vieira has usually been played with Soldado, or at least he was when I was there. Cissokho cost €5m. Who has this €100m been spent on. I doubt anything like that has been spent on the squad this year on players. The President is dead! Long live the Republic! Llorente is history and it is no loss.

EMP wrote:

Jaime wrote:

EMP wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:It's not stupid because Real Sociedad have negative spending as well. Valencia spent about 3 times as much on new players last summer.

But they've also made much more money by selling players...

Which gives them a bigger budget which means their expectations are a lot bigger. La Real are a small time club these days they've come out of nowhere played great football and imo deserve it more than Valencia who are basically turning into the Arsenal of Spanish football with no real ambition except to finish in CL places and then continue selling their best players so they can dream of a big new stadium. The only difference is the Nou Mestalla will probably never be finished!

Valencia have been inconsistent, but this bollocks about a bigger budget is a bit much. If V alencia is turned into a feeder club for big two, it will be disastrous for Spanish football. They needed to renovate or move and there was an agreement to buy the land in place before they started the New Mestalla project. That was reneged on and not by the club. Valencia need CL football and have a better chance of doing well in it. Which signings are you claiming are crap? What would have been better buys?

Pereira has been shit. Cissoko has been very average. Guardado meh. Valdez has scored a whopping 4 goals. What did Swansea pay for Michu 2m? Seems like he would have been a much better option. They don't even play Viera.

Anyhow, you can't argue. Valencia had a budget of over 100m euro for the 2012-13 season. La Real's budget was 40m.

I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be a disaster for Spanish football the state of Valencia. It is a disaster! But that doesn't change the fact that they still have more resources than la Real and that the president has spent the last few years saying that really they are only concerned with finishing 3rd. Even Atletico have shown more ambition.

And haven't I repeatedly said that I have information that Manuel Llorente was a bigger puta than Soler and Koeman put together. This season had to be sacrificed in the early stages for the Curse to work its magic to get shot of him. I worked my voodoo and now you try to ruin it all. Curses will be issued if we miss out on all offenders. Vieira has usually been played with Soldado, or at least he was when I was there. Cissokho cost €5m. Who has this €100m been spent on. I doubt anything like that has been spent on the squad this year on players. The President is dead! Long live the Republic! Llorente is history and it is no loss.

100m between transfers and wages. According to AS anyway.

Michu wouldn't start for Valencia. Jonas is better than him. As is Canales.

Michu would absolutely start for them. Jonas is shit.

Jonas has well nicer technique and has scored 19 goals in each of the last two seasons, while playing AM or SS. A lot of them are from outside the box too. Jonas is basically Michu but with a nicer first touch, dribbling and passing. All you get from Michu is goals yet Jonas has outscored him while having a better all round game.

Seriously, Michu has went from being underrated to overrated. Why do you hate Valencia so much?

Jaime wrote:Michu would absolutely start for them. Jonas is shit.

No guarantee that Michu would have delivered in Spain. Not saying he wouldn't have, just no guarantees.

Jonah and the Whale wrote: Jonas has well nicer technique and has scored 19 goals in each of the last two seasons, while playing AM or SS. A lot of them are from outside the box too. Jonas is basically Michu but with a nicer first touch, dribbling and passing. All you get from Michu is goals yet Jonas has outscored him while having a better all round game.

Seriously, Michu has went from being underrated to overrated. Why do you hate Valencia so much?

That's absolute bullshit. Michu scored 15 goals for Rayo last season and Jonas scored 10 for Valencia.

I don't hate Valencia at all but they are in a terrible state right now and most of their players are not nearly good enough compared to their standard of the last decade. It's a shame really but that's the way it is. As EMP said, it's mostly the fault of Llorente. Hopefully they can turn it around.

EMP wrote:

Jaime wrote:Michu would absolutely start for them. Jonas is shit.

No guarantee that Michu would have delivered in Spain. Not saying he wouldn't have, just no guarantees.

He already delivered in Spain! Last year with Rayo Vallecano ffs!

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote: Jonas has well nicer technique and has scored 19 goals in each of the last two seasons, while playing AM or SS. A lot of them are from outside the box too. Jonas is basically Michu but with a nicer first touch, dribbling and passing. All you get from Michu is goals yet Jonas has outscored him while having a better all round game.

Seriously, Michu has went from being underrated to overrated. Why do you hate Valencia so much?

That's absolute bullshit. Michu scored 15 goals for Rayo last season and Jonas scored 10 for Valencia.

I don't hate Valencia at all but they are in a terrible state right now and most of their players are not nearly good enough compared to their standard of the last decade. It's a shame really but that's the way it is. As EMP said, it's mostly the fault of Llorente. Hopefully they can turn it around.

19 goals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Gon%C3%A7alves_Oliveira

Goals in the Copa Del Rey, CL and Europa League count too. He scored 5 goals in the CL this season, come on man credit where it's due, he scores a lot of goals considering he plays behind Goldado.

Jonah and the Whale wrote:

Jaime wrote:

Jonah and the Whale wrote: Jonas has well nicer technique and has scored 19 goals in each of the last two seasons, while playing AM or SS. A lot of them are from outside the box too. Jonas is basically Michu but with a nicer first touch, dribbling and passing. All you get from Michu is goals yet Jonas has outscored him while having a better all round game.

Seriously, Michu has went from being underrated to overrated. Why do you hate Valencia so much?

That's absolute bullshit. Michu scored 15 goals for Rayo last season and Jonas scored 10 for Valencia.

I don't hate Valencia at all but they are in a terrible state right now and most of their players are not nearly good enough compared to their standard of the last decade. It's a shame really but that's the way it is. As EMP said, it's mostly the fault of Llorente. Hopefully they can turn it around.

19 goals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Gon%C3%A7alves_Oliveira

Goals in the Copa Del Rey, CL and Europa League count too. He scored 5 goals in the CL this season, come on man credit where it's due, he scores a lot of goals considering he plays behind Goldado.

Just compare them in the competitions where they had the same opportunities. You can't make a fair comparison if Michu didn't even play in Europe.

Anyway obviously saying Jonas is shit is an exaggeration but if Valencia ever want to be real competitor in Spain and Europe again a player like Jonas would be a squad player not a player for the XI.

I agree. Canales will eventually replace him anyway.

Jonah and the Whale wrote:I agree. Canales will eventually replace him anyway.

Only if the boy can stay away from the injuries but I have my doubts which is a shame because I still believe in his talent.

Interesting to see the latest Football Draft XIs.

Gold: Kepa Arrizabalaga (Athletic), Dani Carvajal (Leverkusen), Jordi Amat (Rayo/Espanyol), Sergi Gómez (Barcelona), Alberto Moreno (Sevilla), Gerard Deulofeu (Barcelona), Koke (Atlético), Saul (Atlético), Iker Muniain (Athletic), Isco (Malaga), Álvaro Morata (Real Madrid)

Silver: Dani Sotres (Racing), Jonathan Castro (Celta), Derik Osede (Real Madrid), Jon Aurtenetxe (Athletic), Pablo Íñiguez (Villarreal), Rubén Pardo (Real Sociedad), Pedro Mba Obiang (Sampdoria), Pablo Sarabia (Getafe), Rubén García (Levante), Óliver Torres (Atlético), Paco Alcácer (Getafe/Valencia)

Bronze: Rubén Blanco (Celta), Jonas Ramalho (Athletic), Javier Manquillo (Atlético), Israel Puerto (Sevilla), Víctor Álvarez (Espanyol), Álvaro Vadillo (Betis), Sergi Roberto (Barcelona), Álex Fernández (Real Madrid), Jesé (Real Madrid), Suso (Liverpool), Raúl De Tomás (Real Madrid)

7 Real Madrid youth products
3 Barcelona youth products

Leverkusen will miss Carvajal, he had a very good season. If you're not going to give him proper playing time, it's in the best interest of the player and club to let him play there for a few more years. Leverkusen have qualified for the CL, that's invaluable experience for the lad.

blutgraetsche wrote:Leverkusen will miss Carvajal, he had a very good season. If you're not going to give him proper playing time, it's in the best interest of the player and club to let him play there for a few more years. Leverkusen have qualified for the CL, that's invaluable experience for the lad.

Arbeloa has had a pretty poor season. And now that Jose is gone, Carvajal will have a clean slate. I think he will be first choice before to long.

If he's any good he should be replacing Arbeloa, who has regressed over the last year. Madrid would be much better with a RB who is good going forward.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1602256-real-madrid-say-adios-to-alvaro-arbeloa-and-welcome-back-daniel-carvajal

Some good stats indicating he is better than Arbeloa.

Jaime wrote:

EMP wrote:

Jaime wrote:Michu would absolutely start for them. Jonas is shit.

No guarantee that Michu would have delivered in Spain. Not saying he wouldn't have, just no guarantees.

He already delivered in Spain! Last year with Rayo Vallecano ffs!

But playing for a bigger club would increase the pressure and limit the opportunities and it would have been in a league that was wiser to him. He hasn't delivered at a big club in Spain.

Almost to the end of the season. Here is my team of the year:


------------------------------A. Fernández (OSA)


Iraola (ATH)-------Godín (ATL)-------I. Martínez (SOC)-------G. Siqueira (GRA)


----------------Illaramendi (SOC)------Busquets (BAR)


-----------------------------C. Fabregas (BAR)


Messi (BAR)--------------------Falcao (ATL)---------------------Ronaldo (MAD)


Subs: Courtois (ATL), Varane (MAD), Beñat (BET), I. Aspas (CEL), Vela (SOC), Soldado (VAL)


The three attackers pretty much picked themselves. Although I make Messi play on the wing!

I'm sure the cules will disagree with Fabregas for the attacking midfielder but he has the most assists from anyone on the team (tied for most in the league), more goals than any Farsa midfielder and more game winning goals than anyone but Messi, same passing accuracy as Iniesta. Facts.

Busquets and Illarramendi in the centre of midfield for me. Both win a ton of balls for their team, Illarramendi tackles more, Busquets wins more interceptions but both can then distribute the ball quickly and accurately. The exact opposite of anyone called Diarra!

In the back, I was going back and forth between Godin and Miranda but I think the uruguayan just edges it for me. He's had a really great season. He goes with Inigo Martinez from Real Sociedad in the middle who was the other top centre back imo. Less obvious choices for the full backs. Went with Iraola from Athletic. He is just so consistent. One of the few bright spots from a pretty dismal Athletic side. And for the left, I went with Siqueira from Granada. The guy is a goal machine for a left back.

Goalkeeper I thought about Courtois who is undoubtedly awesome and will win the Zamora pretty easily. But, I went with Andres Fernandez because he made so many vital saves, I think it's pretty clear Osasuna would be relegated without him. Courtois has a pretty good defence in front of him but it might as well be poor Andres all by himself in Pamplona.

Bench is pretty self explanatory. Isco was the one I had a hard time leaving out altogether but I thought his best performances were actually in the CL this year. A little second season syndrom in la liga but still he will be awesome. I really hope we buy him. Modric too made a push in the late part of the season but really didn't deserve it more than someone like Beñat.

Fuck stats. Fabregas has been nowhere near as good as Iniesta. Also DiMichales (can't spell his name) has been comfortably the best CB in the league this season. Godin has been mistake prone. (No I am not saying that just because of his mistake the other day).

I haven't seen much of Osasuna, but I have a hard time imagining their keeper was better than Big Willy for Malaga, who has been consistently brilliant. Courtois would be in for a shout too.

Banega instead of Illarramendi. Banega has been consistently amazing since January, before that he was just coming back from an injury and was still playing OK. He can play as a DLP, CM and AM,he looks just as good in any position. Filipe Luiz instead of Siqueira ( Haven't watched him play really). Luiz is good at defending and at going forward, a mainstay in a good Atletico team.

Here is my team anyway:

--------------------Willy

-Iraloa----Dimichales---Varane-----Filipe Luiz

--------------------Busquets
--------------Banega
---------------------------Iniesta

---Messi------------Falcao-----------Ronaldo


Subs - Inigo Martinez, Courtious, Isco, Jouquin, Goldado, Beñat,

If you take away Cesc's game winning goals you would have finished second. Take away Iniesta's game winning goals and you finish no different.

You are starting to sound like Messiah FFS