La Roja

Interesting to see the training match XIs. The "theoretical" starters were: Casillas, Azpilicueta, Piqué, Ramos, Jordi Alba, Busquets, Silva, Xavi, Cesc, Pedro, Torres

So no Diego Costa, no Iniesta and no doble pivote! Of course Del Bosque is probably just trying to mess with the poor Dutchies' minds. I would be shocked if he did not play Busquets and Alonso from the start but I guess we'll see. In fact, I would not be surprised if he plays Cesc as false 9 either.

I hope we won't have to face each other in the 2nd round. The Confed final was great but now it's another story, and Spain is obviously much better than Chile and Holland. I fear Spain in the 2nd round.

mongrel hawk wrote:I hope we won't have to face each other in the 2nd round. The Confed final was great but now it's another story, and Spain is obviously much better than Chile and Holland. I fear Spain in the 2nd round.

It would be a shame for the two to meet so early. Spain-Brazil would make a great final.

this game against holland will likely be spains most difficult, van gaal is a tactical mastermind

Jaime wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:I hope we won't have to face each other in the 2nd round. The Confed final was great but now it's another story, and Spain is obviously much better than Chile and Holland. I fear Spain in the 2nd round.

It would be a shame for the two to meet so early. Spain-Brazil would make a great final.

True. Hope we both finish 1st (with Diego Costa as a reserve).

Another practice match. Looks like the backline is set: Azpilicueta, Piqué, Ramos, Jordi Alba with Casillas in goal.

This time Del Bosque aligned the usual Busquets-Alonso doble pivote with Xavi in his normal free role. The attackers this time were Iniesta, Pedro, and Diego Costa. So it seems like the real doubts for the XI against the Netherlands are Silva or Pedro and then whether it will be an out and out '9' (Costa or Torres) or a false '9' (Cesc).

Lots of second guessing going on with regard to the squad. Azpilicueta had such a good season at Cheslea but looking really out of his depth in the first game. Taking Carvajal too would have injected some much needed pace into the side.

Really wish that Del Bosque would have left either Cazorla or Mata (Cazorla for me) at home and brought someone like Muniain. Would have been nice to be able to go to a team like this at some point, either to start or as a plan B:

-------------------Casillas

Carvajal-----S. Ramos-----Pique-----J. Alba

--------------Alonso----Busquets

-------------------Iniesta

Pedrito------------?????------------Muniain

You could even drop Alonso for Koke or Silva. Ah well.

Are too many cooks spoiling the broth for Spain or is the whole Costa thing the problem? He's not used to playing with his team-mates and he's going to get sent off in this WC probably. Should have signed for Brazil, would have been a better fit.

Casillas was always going to be a shambles as well, his confidence must be shattered.

Luis wrote:Are too many cooks spoiling the broth for Spain or is the whole Costa thing the problem? He's not used to playing with his team-mates and he's going to get sent off in this WC probably. Should have signed for Brazil, would have been a better fit.

Casillas was always going to be a shambles as well, his confidence must be shattered.

I mentioned it somewhere but for me there are two things. Xavi is officially past it (hence he's playing in Qatar next year). He was the essence of the "tiki taka". It's not that the style is outdated per se, it's that the fulcrum of the team has withered away. He always set the rhythm (which has become slower and slower over time) and he also used to be able to play a final ball. He's now mostly a passenger. He doesn't defend, he doesn't create. He doesn't really do anything. It's the same reason for Barcelona's decline.

Diego Costa, yes, but the strikers in general. In 2010 Villa was at his best so even though Torres was on the way down already there was a guy who would get the goals. Villa is also now past it. Torres offers nothing (and has done for quite some time). And Diego Costa doesn't know what to do. Beyond that, Negredo hadn't played in months. Soldado is rubbish. The big error by Del Bosque, for me, was to not take Llorente. He's the only Spanish striker that had been playing and been in form over the last 6 months.

any chance Casillas gets dropped?

I think Villa should start in this game, he knows the system more than costa and is better than torres, even if he is past it

Xavi is dropped!

debaser wrote:any chance Casillas gets dropped?

Probably not - Reina is a joke, he's only there to MC the victory parades. De Gea, well, I don't know if it is a good idea to throw him into the fire I think he's only ever played once for Spain.

So, end of the road for Casillas, Xavi, Torres, Villa, Reina, Alonso. No point in continuing to call marginal players like Mata, Cazorla, Albiol, Juanfran either.

Will be interesting to see if there is a future, after all the fuss, for Diego Costa. He has been so very poor.

end of and era. no barca no spain   

time to bring in some young players and start again

messiah wrote:end of and era. no barca no spain   

time to bring in some young players and start again

How is it, then, that Spain didn't win in 1994 or 1998 when 9 from 22 were from Barcelona?

Jaime wrote:

messiah wrote:end of and era. no barca no spain   

time to bring in some young players and start again

How is it, then, that Spain didn't win in 1994 or 1998 when 9 from 22 were from Barcelona?

how many were from madrid, maybe 1 too many.

messiah wrote:

Jaime wrote:

messiah wrote:end of and era. no barca no spain   

time to bring in some young players and start again

How is it, then, that Spain didn't win in 1994 or 1998 when 9 from 22 were from Barcelona?

how many were from madrid, maybe 1 too many.

Enjoy supporting Argentina the rest of the WC.

time for isco,thiago and koke to step up. iniesta has one more cup in him then thats it

As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

blutgraetsche wrote:As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

Meh, they won the Euros in 2012 without him. He definitely had a never say die attitude and was a good defender but if they are in form Sergio Ramos and Pique are just as good.

messiah wrote:time for isco,thiago and koke to step up. iniesta has one more cup in him then thats it

He really doesn't. In 2018 Iniesta will be the same age as Xavi is now. He should not be part of the national team after the next Euros.

Jaime wrote:

messiah wrote:time for isco,thiago and koke to step up. iniesta has one more cup in him then thats it

He really doesn't. In 2018 Iniesta will be the same age as Xavi is now. He should not be part of the national team after the next Euros.

Sorry i meant the next euros, after that he should walk away

Jaime wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

Meh, they won the Euros in 2012 without him. He definitely had a never say die attitude and was a good defender but if they are in form Sergio Ramos and Pique are just as good.

in there dreams

note i included the barca defender.

messiah wrote:

Jaime wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

Meh, they won the Euros in 2012 without him. He definitely had a never say die attitude and was a good defender but if they are in form Sergio Ramos and Pique are just as good.

in there dreams

note i included the barca defender.

The national team never lost a game that Marchena started. Marchena > Puyol. Of course I'm joking but look maybe as individual defenders, Puyol was the best but in terms of a pairing Ramos-Pique was as good as any that have featured during this run for Spain. The defense did not fall apart without Puyol in 2012.

For the next generation, I think it's key to keep an eye on the recovery/return of Jese and the development of Deulofeu. Spain have been horrible in attack and those two are players who know how to turn dominant buildup into attacking threat. If they can come good, they'll be unbelievably crucial in giving Spain some edge. I'd love to see Jese in a central role roaming around as a predatory and skilled goalscorer while Deulofeu rampages down the right flank. The two have great chemistry as well.

As for midfield, I think it's pretty clear the direction to take. Koke, herrera Thiago, Iniesta, Busi,Isco and Javi Martinez should be the core for the near future. The likes of and Oliver are more long term. Iturraspe should be looked at as well.

the defense should be good for the euros, but after that it will be time to bed in new CB, fullbacks is no worry i could list a bunch of them. CB on the other hand is pretty light. if Laporte were spanish they would be pretty much set. but as of now they have martinez and bartra both of which have talent but will never be world class, like ramos,pique and puyol were when at their best. but given how long both have played together, they should have fantastic chemistry

Also, this Javi Martinez as centre back experiment needs to end. He has the physical qualities to play as a centre back but not the instincts.

For the next generation, I think it's key to keep an eye on the recovery/return of Jese and the development of Deulofeu. Spain have been horrible in attack and those two are players who know how to turn dominant buildup into attacking threat. If they can come good, they'll be unbelievably crucial in giving Spain some edge. I'd love to see Jese in a central role roaming around as a predatory and skilled goalscorer while Deulofeu rampages down the right flank. The two have great chemistry as well.

As for midfield, I think it's pretty clear the direction to take. Koke, herrera Thiago, Iniesta, Busi,Isco and Javi Martinez should be the core for the near future. The likes of and Oliver are more long term. Iturraspe should be looked at as well.

the defense should be good for the euros, but after that it will be time to bed in new CB, fullbacks is no worry i could list a bunch of them. CB on the other hand is pretty light. if Laporte were spanish they would be pretty much set. but as of now they have martinez and bartra both of which have talent but will never be world class, like ramos,pique and puyol were when at their best. but given how long both have played together, they should have fantastic chemistry

the future of spain is still very bright, del bosque just wanted to give is old's one more chance at greatness, if he had started the transition after the world cup, which he hinted at, they would have gone far in the wc

all the 30+ players need to just bow out gracefully

villa,torres,xavi,alonso,iker need to step aside

no more room for the good but no exceptional like mata as well

give the core of the U21 side a chance to prove themselves

messiah wrote:For the next generation, I think it's key to keep an eye on the recovery/return of Jese and the development of Deulofeu. Spain have been horrible in attack and those two are players who know how to turn dominant buildup into attacking threat. If they can come good, they'll be unbelievably crucial in giving Spain some edge. I'd love to see Jese in a central role roaming around as a predatory and skilled goalscorer while Deulofeu rampages down the right flank. The two have great chemistry as well.

This is true. I like the idea of a front three of Muniain-Jese-Deulofeu eventually. There are some others like Paco Alcacer and Morata who could also turn out to be good options but Jese and Deulofeu are the ones that have the talent to really be among the best players in the world.

As for midfield, I think it's pretty clear the direction to take. Koke, herrera Thiago, Iniesta, Busi,Isco and Javi Martinez should be the core for the near future. The likes of and Oliver are more long term.  Iturraspe should be looked at as well.

The one you are missing is Ruben Pardo. He should really be in the mix too. And Cesc as AM should certainly still be an option. Maybe even Saul Niguez.

the defense should be good for the euros, but after that it will be time to bed in new CB, fullbacks is no worry i could list a bunch of them. CB on the other hand is pretty light. if Laporte were spanish they would be pretty much set. but as of now they have martinez and bartra both of which have talent but will never be world class, like ramos,pique and puyol were when at their best. but given how long both have played together, they should have fantastic chemistry

Mikel San Jose should get an opportunity imo. I don't think it matters if individually they are world class or not to me it is more how they function as a partnership and how they compliment one another.