Why are German teams struggling in the UEFA Cup?

last year already our teams were punching below their weight

this year they are doing the same

is there any excuse for Berlin's and Schalke's elimination ?

when you look at their opponents , you wonder how they could have thrown it away

@fellow Teutons

are Bundesliga teams taking the UEFA Cup seriously at all ?

are we simply unlucky ?? (unlikely)

are we tactically too naive ?

what's the problem and what could be the solution ?

Don't worry Otto, Bremen will be in the knock-outs

Maybe there's no strength in depth in the Bundesliga?

otto the humble German wrote:last year already our teams were punching below their weight

this year they are doing the same

is there any excuse for Berlin's and Schalke's elimination ?

when you look at their opponents , you wonder how they could have thrown it away

@fellow Teutons

are Bundesliga teams taking the UEFA Cup seriously at all ?

are we simply unlucky ?? (unlikely)

are we tactically too naive ?

what's the problem and what could be the solution ?

They are not very good.....

truth be told: I don't really know the answer

Schalke at the moment are suffering from Dutch-like infighting

the captain is currently looking for the MOLE of a few slanderous leaks

but what is wrong with Hertha ???

I suspect, we simply have an attitude problem here. Players/managers know they need the money but don't take the UEFA CUP seriously

even worse: German clubs have lost their unshakeable self-belief

maybe I'm wrong

as for Bremen: the loss of those two points yesterday will come to haunt them. DAMN

they HAVE to defeat Chelsea, forcing them to expose their back

we can only hope that Chelsea and Barca take lots of points off each other

otto the humble German wrote:
Schalke at the moment are suffering from Dutch-like infighting

I was waiting for how you were gonna blame us for it, but this is lame....even for you

Axeslammer ! wrote:

otto the humble German wrote:
Schalke at the moment are suffering from Dutch-like infighting

I was waiting for how you were gonna blame us for it, but this is lame....even for you

I was going to blame Mulder, but he was not playing today, leaving me with no option but to direct my wrath at DUTCH-LIKE conditions

it's elegant and totally plausible

surely it's a simple case of the strong turfing out the weak otto...no need for elaborate theories when the answer is so obvious

A more appropriate question would be is this decline in german league football going to be terminal or can it be turned around?

COTR wrote:surely it's a simple case of the strong turfing out the weak otto...no need for elaborate theories when the answer is so obvious

A more appropriate question would be is this decline in german league football going to be terminal or can it be turned around?

it's great to know that in times of German pain, there is a North-Irish chap who has always a consoling word for us

thanks for your kind words, children

it means a lot

avoiding the question.

I believe that Overall German teams are in the decline but this do happen a bit everywhere and with time German football will improve.
For example Italian football was poor recently and it seems better now, same for French clubs, 5-6 years ago, there were none in quarter or semi, and they were losing against so-so teams. Now it's a bit better.

Bayern are doing well so there's some hope.
I see Bremen going to U.E.F.A only because they fell on maybe the two biggest team.

Yes Shalke lost, but they played an in-form team who is 4th in the league. In the U.E.F.A if u meet a team from Egland, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany or France u have great chances losing. Berlin's defeat is a bad one, same as Marseille's one is the same. The u.e.f.a is not as appealing as the champions league

I'm so pissed off about teams like Hertha, who bottle it repeatedly for us in the UEFA cup against minor teams they definitely should be able to beat!
Why do they actually qualify for the UEFA cup if they don't really take the damn competition seriously? It's an attitude problem above all, it's this "loser cup" image the UEFA Cup has in Germany that is hurting us. That, and the lack of qualified coaches. Most Bundesliga coaches are tactically inept, and simply don't know how to teach their teams "cleverness", a necessity in a knock-out competition like the UEFA Cup. It's not the money or the quality of the players, this simply can't exuse the embarassing results against much smaller (and poorer) teams!

Seriously, let us please lose some CL and UEFA cup places soon, so these losers can't ruin it for us, at least for a while.

The Bundesliga on the decline, but it will be clubs like Hertha and Schalke who will suffer most. Once these cocky blowhards realise that they need to win the championship to qualify for the CL, something they won't achieve in my lifetime, they may actually take the UEFA cup more seriously.

What a shitty day. Again.

otto the humble German wrote:last year already our teams were punching below their weight

this year they are doing the same

is there any excuse for Berlin's and Schalke's elimination ?

when you look at their opponents , you wonder how they could have thrown it away

@fellow Teutons

are Bundesliga teams taking the UEFA Cup seriously at all ?

are we simply unlucky ?? (unlikely)

are we tactically too naive ?

what's the problem and what could be the solution ?

Is it because the german teams are overhyped by the media and are actually not very good compared to the rest of europe?

First step to finding a solution is recognising the problem that your league is poor compared to the EPL, La Liga etc. Next step is investing in better players from abroad, possibly from the Championship in England .

Were these clubs playing weakened squads or were they all at full strength?

otto the humble German wrote:

Axeslammer ! wrote:

otto the humble German wrote:
Schalke at the moment are suffering from Dutch-like infighting

I was waiting for how you were gonna blame us for it, but this is lame....even for you

I was going to blame Mulder, but he was not playing today, leaving me with no option but to direct my wrath at DUTCH-LIKE conditions

it's elegant and totally plausible

yes very plausible....

You know what... the Dutch have as many teams in the Europa Cup as the Germans! both countries have still 5 teams present! And if Axe's team (FC Groningen) were not SO stupid to MISS A PENALTY we had still 6 teams in the EUROPA Cup!

Hertha missed obviously Dick van Burik.... A nobody in Holland but unmissable for Hertha BSC....
Voetbal International, most reliable Dutch football magazine, said "Van Burik played 90 minutes..."

If one thing is rapidly going down it is our press... We are becomming more and more an English style tabloid press with all the hypes and stuff. We are also very much influenced by the English press. They follow mostly blind what people in England wright and say.....

that is very concerning....

For the rest the Dutch league is slowly becomming stronger and stronger in a broader way. Heerenveen and AZ are doing fine in Europe for three years in a row now...! I hope the play-offs in the Eredivisie will also make our midzone teams like Roda JC, Groningen, Vitesse, Twente and NEC stronger. They need to play more rational instead of thinking of "good" football!!!!!

I think especially with Schalke the case is that they are spoiled brats. They played well in the Champions League against Milan, PSV and Fenerbahce. They were only one goal away from knocking Milan out.

This team is pretty much the same. There's no excuse really. Maybe they could do with a "motivator" like Christoph Daum.

What can I say? I hate Schalke anyway. I remember there were Schalke supporters at my pub when Bayern played the CL final against Valencia and they were all rooting for the Spaniards.

Schalke don't deserve to get into a European competition for their simple-minded fans alone.

Where is Schalke is it a city or is it a club from a city?

The city is Gelsenkirchen. Schalke is a a district of Gelsenkirchen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelsenkirchen

Tweedledum wrote:Where is Schalke is it a city or is it a club from a city?

It's from Gelshenkirchen... dunno if I spelt that right.

Nul-Vier means 04 - as they were found in 1904, I presume. Fantastic Stadium though.

I think they were the last German team to win the UEFA Cup as well.

Very industrial then - probably explains why the fans are knobs

About the "desaster" and the 5-year ranking. (Sorry in German only.)

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt5m5/sport/uefacup/artikel/251/87164/

Effenberg wrote:About the "desaster" and the 5-year ranking. (Sorry in German only.)

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt5m5/sport/uefacup/artikel/251/87164/

Both Romanian UEFA Cup teams reached the group stage last night earning 1.333 points while we only earned lousy 0.429 points and lost two teams.
Considering Schalke and Hertha did not even reach the group stage it's almost sure now the Bundesliga will lose its 5th place to Romania already this season. Hopefully we can keep at least the 6th place...otherwise we'll lose the second CL slot...

Do you want proof for the plain retarded attitude towards the UEFA cup in Germany?

A substantial part of the Schalke fans is actually glad that they got kicked out of the UEFA cup, because this will make it easier for the team to concentrate on the league!
Are you fucking retarded? You have 90 million Euros debts, you need every penny you can get, the Bundesliga needs those points, so you first class chokers actually has a slight chance to qualify for the CL, and earn more money so you don't get bankrupt!

Then you have the Hertha management, who apologise for their awful record in Europe at least, saying that their team still needs to get experience. Experience? You fucked it up against Odense FFS, I bet 99.9999% of your fans don't even know what country they are from!

Finally, you have the Frankfurt management celebrating the fact that two German teams were kicked out, so they get a bigger slice of the TV revenues for their club. Idiots, if we lose CL and UEFA cup places because of this, there will be no money to earn for you, because there is no way in hell that you guys will be amongst the top 5 anytime soon.


Summary: We fully deserve to lose those CL and UEFA cup places, and hopefully we will, so these idiots won't be able to ruin it for us any further. Unfortunately, the Portuguese and Russians seem to have bottled it in the UEFA cup this season, so we might get away with it again.

110% wrote:
Is it because the german teams are overhyped by the media and are actually not very good compared to the rest of europe?

First step to finding a solution is recognising the problem that your league is poor compared to the EPL, La Liga etc. Next step is investing in better players from abroad, possibly from the Championship in England .

Yeah, as could be seen just two days ago, when Bayern beat mighty Inter at home, and Bremen was very close to beat the best club side in the world.

If anything, the league is still being underrated. And as far as hype is concerned, we will never match the hype of biblical proportions in England, where you pay millions of Euros for plain mediocre players, while selling them to the fans as God's gift to the game. But once there is an international competition going on where you can't rely on foreign talent, e.g. the WC, the true strenght of your own players is brutally exposed.

We know the reasons for this mess too well. Hype is not one of them.

nobody in Germany takes the UEFA Cup seriously

the Kaiser called it the Losers Cup ; probably had an impact

it's treated as a nuisance, a distraction, by players and the management alike

whilst getting into Europe is considered to be a good aim for a club's season, there is precious little interest in conquering Europe

maybe the Bundesliga is simply not ambitious enough

maybe it's too provincial

I say, SACK Slomka and Goetz and get Hitzfeld and Daum on board

otto the humble German wrote:
I say, SACK Slomka and Goetz and get Hitzfeld and Daum on board

Lol, why is it that you always want to sack everyone...

Should Bremen finish 3rd in our CL group, and therefore enter the UEFA cup, providing they play somewhere near their best, they will be one of the big favourites to win it I'm sure.

Schalke and Hertha are a joke. That's all there is to it really.

blutgraetsche wrote:

110% wrote:
Is it because the german teams are overhyped by the media and are actually not very good compared to the rest of europe?

First step to finding a solution is recognising the problem that your league is poor compared to the EPL, La Liga etc. Next step is investing in better players from abroad, possibly from the Championship in England .

Yeah, as could be seen just two days ago, when Bayern beat mighty Inter at home, and Bremen was very close to beat the best club side in the world.

If anything, the league is still being underrated. And as far as hype is concerned, we will never match the hype of biblical proportions in England, where you pay millions of Euros for plain mediocre players, while selling them to the fans as God's gift to the game. But once there is an international competition going on where you can't rely on foreign talent, e.g. the WC, the true strenght of your own players is brutally exposed.

We know the reasons for this mess too well. Hype is not one of them.

thats two teams in two games from the whole league...i cant see how that can mean the league is 'underrated' really...how many games have german teams won so far this season in europe?

blutgraetsche wrote:

110% wrote:
Is it because the german teams are overhyped by the media and are actually not very good compared to the rest of europe?

First step to finding a solution is recognising the problem that your league is poor compared to the EPL, La Liga etc. Next step is investing in better players from abroad, possibly from the Championship in England .

Yeah, as could be seen just two days ago, when Bayern beat mighty Inter at home, and Bremen was very close to beat the best club side in the world.

If anything, the league is still being underrated. And as far as hype is concerned, we will never match the hype of biblical proportions in England, where you pay millions of Euros for plain mediocre players, while selling them to the fans as God's gift to the game. But once there is an international competition going on where you can't rely on foreign talent, e.g. the WC, the true strenght of your own players is brutally exposed.

We know the reasons for this mess too well. Hype is not one of them.

My point was play on what Otto is always saying about the EPL, that the English players are not as good as made out by the media and by his conclusions are in fact rubbish. It is funny that you replied with what you did, that they are not hyped as much as the English and that the English are crap at international football. So you just had a dig at the English for no reason .

For your information I am not English so you can slag them off as much as you like. I was only trying to balance all the crap that otto writes by saying that all players, teams etc are hyped because they all are. It's called "promotion" and "marketing". It is actually a whole group of people's jobs to do that. It happens here in italy, or spain, germany or brasil etc. The English seem to be the only ones who are said to be doing it through on this messageboard which is just plain wrong.

What is pretty clear though is that the German league is not that strong overall, even if the top 2 or 3 teams might be. It was a joke for Otto because he is always slagging off the English to buy players from the championship, obviously you should buy them from the premiership, serie A and la liga because the players are clearly better in those leagues.

Notice your sig, you're hyping some player called diego, and the most hype on this message board comes from otto himself. So what I was pointing out was the hypocrisy to have a go at others such as the english for "hype".