Di Stefanio: European or not?

For the sake of the best European player thread, should he be considered or not?

the only way I could consider somebody born outside of Europe a European is that his parents were on holiday somewhere at the time when he was born and that he returned home a week later or something. Otherwise, they are not.

It's to difficult to know where all the players nominated are born........
If they represented a European country, they must be counted as European.

so is Eusebio the best African player of all time? Surely you can't deny the African people the right to claim him as his own, having been born and raised there. If he is, then can he also be one of the best European players of all time?

Eusebio represented Portugal only ..

Di Stefano did not only represent Spain ..

Mozambique wasn't even an independent country back then, so Eusebio had no other choice. He didn't move to Portugal until he was 19. I think there are analogies in the principle. To me, neither are Europeans.

Of course this is an impossable debate.
Would we say that someone born in the Canary Islands or Madeira is not European?
Or, if it's a Turk or Russian, was he born in the European part, or Asian part.
Toonh, whilst you may be morally correct in your assumption, I stick to it being easier to call a player European, for the purposes of this exercise, if he represented an European country.

no because he played for argentina&columbia, Eusebio only played for Portugal so he should count

Di Stefano, ciudadano del mundo !!

Ask Eusébio what he feels - he feels and wants to be Portuguese.

How about Di Stefano?

so what about players that were born outside of Europe, played their whole career in Europe, wanted to play for this European country, but were never selected. Why is the selection an important measure? What if Eusebio had never been selected to play for Portugal. Would it have made him less European?

This is a never ending debate, even more so with hypothetical questions.
What about if this imaginary player was born in Ceuta, of Spainish parentage, lived until he was 19 there, and after played all his career in Madrid, represented Spain in 70 internationals scoring 40 goals.
Then, on a message board, someone asked if he was, maybe, one of Europes best players.
Would he be European or African?

Or we could go on and ask is half of the world cup winning team for France, Europeans? Or Indeed french?

I'm with SLB (always ) on this one, if he played and represented and European Nation for the purpose of this exercise you have to consider him European.

Look at Deco! He is considered one of the best midfielders in the world. The only reason he is playing international football at the time is because he chose to represent Portugal. He would not have a chance of playing for Brasil.

So is Deco European? For this purpose, yes!

SLB e Millwall wrote:This is a never ending debate, even more so with hypothetical questions.
What about if this imaginary player was born in Ceuta, of Spainish parentage, lived until he was 19 there, and after played all his career in Madrid, represented Spain in 70 internationals scoring 40 goals.
Then, on a message board, someone asked if he was, maybe, one of Europes best players.
Would he be European or African?

he'd be African, you neo-colonist!

is a player born in Vladivostok and being Russian and playing for Russia European? Not either.

toon h wrote:
he'd be African, you neo-colonist!

is a player born in Vladivostok and being Russian and playing for Russia European? Not either.

If he isn't European, why is he allowed to play in European international competitions?

SLB e Millwall wrote:

toon h wrote:
he'd be African, you neo-colonist!

is a player born in Vladivostok and being Russian and playing for Russia European? Not either.

If he isn't European, why is he allowed to play in European international competitions?

so Israeli's are also Europeans?

and for ex-Spanish colony natives, it is very easy to get Spanish citizenship. Maradona could have been naturalized Spanish if he had wanted to. Would he have been European then?

toon h wrote:

and for ex-Spanish colony natives, it is very easy to get Spanish citizenship. Maradona could have been naturalized Spanish if he had wanted to. Would he have been European then?

Yes, in football terms, had Maradona played for Spain, he would have been an European footballer.
Just as, in a football related debate, Eusebio is European.

so Pernia is a European footballer, when he only turned half Spanish, half Argentinian at 29 and played 3 games for Spain. Fair enough, but to me, Eusebio is Africa's greatest player of all time

If it's a football debate, also Pernia should be classed an European footballer.
If the debate was political, or geographical, then yes, where someone is born would count.

toon h wrote:so Pernia is a European footballer, when he only turned half Spanish, half Argentinian at 29 and played 3 games for Spain. Fair enough, but to me, Eusebio is Africa's greatest player of all time

Eusebio is the greatest player to come out of Africa... He is also one of the greatest European players of all time...

Eusebio is Portuguese, he has Portuguese Nationality and Citizenship. Eusebio is a Portuguese Football Ambassador.

Therefore Eusebio is European!

** at this moment ** Eusebio is in the top 10 .. to be voted starting on Saturday ...

I agree with eusebio being european. Not sure when he moved to portugal but at the age of 19 was already playing for benfica and portugal, and he played for portugal for 12 years.

Obviously it is clear now only being allowed to play for one team, with hargreaves playing for england (even though i think he was born in canada and played mostly in germany)

De Stefano is more difficult for many reasons, not least because he was allowed to play for 3 international teams. His origins were Italian and he was born in Argentina. His connection to spain is that he moved there to play football when he was 27 years old, aquiring citizenship 3 years later at the age of 30, then he represented their national team for 5 years. If there hadn't been problems with the argentinian national team he would have stayed with them.

For me he was not spanish, he was an argentinian with italian origins who came to like spain and wanted to play international football and therefore dropped argentina to do so.

i dont give a dame

Deisler wrote:i dont give a dame

Well, why post?

Also it's damn.

Parks Lives wrote:

Deisler wrote:i dont give a dame

Well, why post?

Also it's damn.

no its not

toon h wrote:the only way I could consider somebody born outside of Europe a European is that his parents were on holiday somewhere at the time when he was born and that he returned home a week later or something. Otherwise, they are not.

I'm assuming that's because you haven't traveled to cities outside Europe with large immigrant populations.

In Toronto for example, you'd find it pretty hard to look these kids in the eyes and tell them they're not European...just look at the way they dress/act/speak/eat/music they listen to.

Many of them also travel quite often to their parents birth nation, spending long periods of time there, with some moving to whatever that nation is on a permanent bassis once they're established enough to do so.