Chelsea vs Arsenal official thread

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:At The end of the day - Are Cesc, Rosicky, or Hleb more likely to pass or shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Then ask the same of Ballack & Lampard.

Crespo did well because he had creative wingers to work with - he'd be struggling just like Sheva in this system.

Look at Drogba's goals - have any of them come through a great set-up by Ballack or Lampard?

Lampard & Ballack are Goalscoring attacking Midfielders, Sheva is used to playing with a genuine no.10. Then add in the language & cutural adjustments he's having to make.

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Agooner wrote:

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Robben will probably shoot - but won't do it as often as Ballack or Lampard.

It's a mixture with Cole - I'd say he'd probably pass.

They were playing as Wingers, anyway. With Jose's new zero-winger system, the creativity must come from the centre... which is where Ballack & Lampard play.

ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:
Look at Drogba's goals - have any of them come through a great set-up by Ballack or Lampard?

Exactly, he was doing excellently feeding off scraps.

oh forgot to answer that one.

drogs goal against pool was set up by lamps, the same against levski and i 'm sure quite a few in the EPL too.

And 2 of sheva's goal so far have come from a lamps assists

Agooner wrote:

drogs goal against pool was set up by lamps

Yep, Lampard looked almost like a playmaker with that long hoof from the right back position.

Agooner wrote:
drogs goal against pool was set up by lamps

Yeah. He did all the hard work for him.

ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:

Agooner wrote:

drogs goal against pool was set up by lamps

Yep, Lampard looked almost like a playmaker with that long hoof from the right back position.

...Great minds.

Snowbispo wrote:

ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:

Agooner wrote:

drogs goal against pool was set up by lamps

Yep, Lampard looked almost like a playmaker with that long hoof from the right back position.

...Great minds.

...Think alike

kas wrote:lrd and AGooner:

The Chelsea midfield may indeed have the ability to put a player through, but it doesn't mean they always do. Look at Shevchenko's goal against Levski in the CL game last Wednesday...Lampard had an easy shot and one that he would have normally taken. Instead he passed it, and what happened?

And Crespo did score for Chelsea, but it wasn't instant either. He took a while to settle in. Plus his long range strikes (like against Wigan in the first game of the season last season) went in, whereas Shevchenko comes up against great saves.

Your other points make much more sense, it's simply a case of him needing time to adapt to a faster pace, and knowing what runs to make.

Yeah against levski a team who not very good, and the defending was awful, left sheva wide open.
The fact is he has been a major flop, his game has not been good, i dont understand the need to blame others for it. His touch etc is not the fault of others.
It's like er you like a player a certain type of player, how bad he can be there is excuses, not having kaka and deco behind him is an excuse i mean wtf. Then the other type of player, can score 100 goals but still can do right.
Sheva has been poor all round. Lampard shoots a lot, but chelsea have the ball a lot, lampard in previous season, set many goals up for the strikers. Ballack also can do the same. I reckon most teams would like essien ballack and lampard in there midfield, as would most strikers.
Sheva more than likely will come good, but as of yet been horrible. Drogba has scored a few great goals, but not all of them were like that at all, and he also is a great a partner to have, sets up and creates many chances, so sheva has him doing that for him, and still he has been poor.

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:

Agooner wrote:

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Robben will probably shoot - but won't do it as often as Ballack or Lampard.

It's a mixture with Cole - I'd say he'd probably pass.

They were playing as Wingers, anyway. With Jose's new zero-winger system, the creativity must come from the centre... which is where Ballack & Lampard play.

Cole and robben won't pass - I'd like to get stats on their assits per season.

TS, wingers like robben and cole hardly benefit the strikers; Robben and RVP played on the wings for holland in the WC but RVN had a single chance all tournament.

Look at Sheva's goal vs. Watford:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-J60CSX7ec&mode=related&search=

The pass from Drogba is exactly what Ballack & Lampard should be looking to do. Instead they just shoot.

Lampard is lampard, and Ballack is also desperate to prove his worth. Neither won't pass. They supply the creativity in a wingless formation.

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:Look at Sheva's goal vs. Watford:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-J60CSX7ec&mode=related&search=

The pass from Drogba is exactly what Ballack & Lampard should be looking to do. Instead they just shoot.

like this u mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZpx0FMDdjs

Agooner wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:

Agooner wrote:

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Robben will probably shoot - but won't do it as often as Ballack or Lampard.

It's a mixture with Cole - I'd say he'd probably pass.

They were playing as Wingers, anyway. With Jose's new zero-winger system, the creativity must come from the centre... which is where Ballack & Lampard play.

Cole and robben won't pass - I'd like to get stats on their assits per season.

TS, wingers like robben and cole hardly benefit the strikers; Robben and RVP played on the wings for holland in the WC but RVN had a single chance all tournament.

That's because RVN is a static lump - He wants everything on a plate.

Agooner wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:Look at Sheva's goal vs. Watford:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-J60CSX7ec&mode=related&search=

The pass from Drogba is exactly what Ballack & Lampard should be looking to do. Instead they just shoot.

like this u mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZpx0FMDdjs

Lampard wouldn't do that in a game that meant something, or if the quality of the oppsition was higher - trust me.

Ok guys how can u explain sheva lack of touch ? or inability to find his team mates with a simple pass at the moment?

This clearly shows he is not in form and is settling.

Agooner wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:

Agooner wrote:

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Robben will probably shoot - but won't do it as often as Ballack or Lampard.

It's a mixture with Cole - I'd say he'd probably pass.

They were playing as Wingers, anyway. With Jose's new zero-winger system, the creativity must come from the centre... which is where Ballack & Lampard play.

Cole and robben won't pass - I'd like to get stats on their assits per season.

TS, wingers like robben and cole hardly benefit the strikers; Robben and RVP played on the wings for holland in the WC but RVN had a single chance all tournament.

this is bollocks im afraid. just look at yesterdays game. robben instantly sparked life into chelsea and drove arsenal back therefore meaning the forwards are further up the pitch for longer periods and not having to come deep to get involved. What on earth does lampard offer shevchenko. lampard's game involves two situations in a game. 1) when he drops into midfield and takes possession and either a) hoofs it out to the wing/stand or b) plays a simple pass backwards and 2) hoping for scraps near the box so that he can shoot. He offers shevchenko and drogba nothing apart from the odd tap in from a deflected shot or free kick. cole and robben would be infinitly more useful to a strikers goal and chance tally but unless lampard or even ballack gets injured I don't think we'll get to see shevchenko having this chance for chelsea

Agooner wrote:Ok guys how can u explain sheva lack of touch ? or inability to find his team mates with a simple pass at the moment?

This clearly shows he is not in form and is settling.

Both are down to the pace of the Premiership. You're forced to make decisions on passing and shooting much quicker, and that affects the quality of what you can do.

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:

Agooner wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves™ wrote:

Agooner wrote:

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Robben will probably shoot - but won't do it as often as Ballack or Lampard.

It's a mixture with Cole - I'd say he'd probably pass.

They were playing as Wingers, anyway. With Jose's new zero-winger system, the creativity must come from the centre... which is where Ballack & Lampard play.

Cole and robben won't pass - I'd like to get stats on their assits per season.

TS, wingers like robben and cole hardly benefit the strikers; Robben and RVP played on the wings for holland in the WC but RVN had a single chance all tournament.

That's because RVN is a static lump - He wants everything on a plate.

No its because wingers like robben prefer shooting themselves in the foot to passing to their team mates

You know it's a clear sign of how limited a player is when people are using a square pass to demonstrate his creativity.

We seen chelsea without lampard v werder bremen, chelsea were rubbish. v arsenal sheva went off, and chelsea looked great should of scored 4 times. And not for the first time has he gone off for them to look better.
It's more likely robben will come in for sheva than anybody else.

L r d wrote:We seen chelsea without lampard v werder bremen, chelsea were rubbish. v arsenal sheva went off, and chelsea looked great should of scored 4 times. And not for the first time has he gone off for them to look better.
It's more likely robben will come in for sheva than anybody else.

I bet it would be the same if Robben came on for Drogba. The difference was not Shevchenko off, it was Robben on.

kas wrote:

Agooner wrote:Ok guys how can u explain sheva lack of touch ? or inability to find his team mates with a simple pass at the moment?

This clearly shows he is not in form and is settling.

Both are down to the pace of the Premiership. You're forced to make decisions on passing and shooting much quicker, and that affects the quality of what you can do.

so he is trying to adapt, that's what i said earlier. Sheva at milan didn't necessrily need someone to create chances for him ala RVN; he used to drop deep, beat players and fire a cracking 25 yard shot into the net.

I am happy for Sheva to carry on playing as Chelsea function at 70%, the same with Ballack, the moment Mourinho swallows his pride and admits they dont suit his team and were probably bought to either stop united getting him or because Abramovich wanted him, they will be awesome again.

If I was cole or Robben, I would be very upset sitting on the bench watching expensive 30 year olds doing nothing all game. Chelsea werent the best to watch now but there narrow midfield of power football is horrible to watch.

As for Sheva he made a big mistake coming to Chelsea as they dont play football for strikers, but for midfielders. At the same time Sheva just looks slow and frustrated. You dont become a bad player over night, but he is not suited to the premiership and at 30 I dont really think he will have time to adjust. Which is a shame as one of my favourate strikers is a shadow of his former great self.

@Agooner

RVN would and does score goals for anyone, him and Ronaldo are one of the few players who have scored goals everywhere. I thought Sheva would join this elite group, but he hasnt so far, maybe his best days are behind him.

Crespo.

Rafa the Grinch wrote:

Agooner wrote:

TeamTurtleDoves wrote:

Agooner wrote:

are cole and robben more likely to pass or dribble and shoot if they pick up the ball 25 yards out?

Robben will probably shoot - but won't do it as often as Ballack or Lampard.

It's a mixture with Cole - I'd say he'd probably pass.

They were playing as Wingers, anyway. With Jose's new zero-winger system, the creativity must come from the centre... which is where Ballack & Lampard play.

Cole and robben won't pass - I'd like to get stats on their assits per season.

TS, wingers like robben and cole hardly benefit the strikers; Robben and RVP played on the wings for holland in the WC but RVN had a single chance all tournament.

this is bollocks im afraid. just look at yesterdays game. robben instantly sparked life into chelsea and drove arsenal back therefore meaning the forwards are further up the pitch for longer periods and not having to come deep to get involved. What on earth does lampard offer shevchenko. lampard's game involves two situations in a game. 1) when he drops into midfield and takes possession and either a) hoofs it out to the wing/stand or b) plays a simple pass backwards and 2) hoping for scraps near the box so that he can shoot. He offers shevchenko and drogba nothing apart from the odd tap in from a deflected shot or free kick. cole and robben would be infinitly more useful to a strikers goal and chance tally but unless lampard or even ballack gets injured I don't think we'll get to see shevchenko having this chance for chelsea

cotr i know u are not a lampard fan but he has created more than half of sheva's goals so far:

against pool, villa, levski and even that goal against portmouth was indirectly created by lampard

Rez wrote:@Agooner

RVN would and does score goals for anyone, him and Ronaldo are one of the few players who have scored goals everywhere. I thought Sheva would join this elite group, but he hasnt so far, maybe his best days are behind him.

rvn wins nothing for everybody, and ruins the play of every team. I put sheva above him, purely because milan got to two champions league finals with him being the main man, while rvn was abysmal in the knockout stages usually

Rez wrote:@Agooner

RVN would and does score goals for anyone, him and Ronaldo are one of the few players who have scored goals everywhere. I thought Sheva would join this elite group, but he hasnt so far, maybe his best days are behind him.

I think sheva will do well in the EPL if given time but i doubt mouriho will be that patient with him. Chelsea have a match on wednesday and i expect him to start on the bench.

@ agooner. shevchenko has scored very few goals and he plays for one of the top two teams in europe and you are trying to argue lampards case because he has indirectly supplied about 3 assists in about half a seasons play. I do hope you a kidding

L r d wrote:

Rez wrote:@Agooner

RVN would and does score goals for anyone, him and Ronaldo are one of the few players who have scored goals everywhere. I thought Sheva would join this elite group, but he hasnt so far, maybe his best days are behind him.

rvn wins nothing for everybody, and ruins the play of every team. I put sheva above him, purely because milan got to two champions league finals with him being the main man, while rvn was abysmal in the knockout stages usually

RVN is one of the best strikers ever - better than crespo