What is Everton on about?

hmm

@luso
I dont recognise the double standards you suggest personally, most of us here will accept that british players dive, however in this specific incident, the dive Jose Mourinho so categorically and robustly stated, simply did not occur, hence his apology and withdrawel of his first statement.

@S4P
There was no foundation for Mourinho's accusation, hence his withdawel of his initial statement. Moyes was merely suggesting that Mourinho look in his own backyard before scrutinising others, and especially in this case he was simply 100% incorrect and whats more Mourinho himself accepts it. Drogba has been a high profile diver absolutely nobody would dispute that, however Johnson although may well have dived in his career did not in the game where your two clubs met.

Mourinho obviously saw the incident again, saw he didnt dive and felt like an idiot. So thought he should apologise.

That's fine. Oddly enough, it makes him a bigger man than pretty much every other manager in the league however...which he's well aware of.

it makes him look like a bigger man

Luso 'Sporting' wrote:That's fine. Oddly enough, it makes him a bigger man than pretty much every other manager in the league however...which he's well aware of.

Good PR for the club and himself, being the supremely confident and proud individual, i would imagine he would have preferred a hole in the head than to make this statement. Thankfully though he has made it, and now we can move on from this, and just perhaps he may well learn to think and analyse scenarios before opening his mouth, we can all hope anyway.

Festive, I understand what you're saying.

What's giving me grief however is that this is something all managers do. They accuse other team's players of actions their own players do. That's football. However, even known 'divers' don't always dive, and yet they still get the diving treatment whether they've done it or not.

Johnson's case isn't the first in which a diver has actually, for once, not taken a dive and still been called on it. It is, to me, the first time I've ever seen so much commotion over such an incident.

Will Moyes pounce on the next time a 'diver' goes down in the box against his team, whether or not that particular diver has actually been brought down or not? Probably not now, he'll like to avoid the diving issue for a while now I'm guessing.

coop/festive

But that's Mourinho now isn't it? He doesn't make a move without really thinking it through. Now, he the most arrogant man in the league, has apologised. Difficult to accuse him of not showing fair play now.

Looks are what he does. "Mourinho" is a contruction of himself. He's a product and Jose knows very well how to market it (himself).

Luso, the commotion was because very few managers apportoniate blame to anothers players. Its more often than not the commentators or Media outlets. The difference here is a manager commenting in an outrageously unprofessional manner.

For example can you show me an example of another Premiership game where another manager has blatently targeted an opposition player wrongly for diving in such a blatent and wreckless manner ?

Don't follow the EPL to the point of being able to do that for you Festive.

You're making a distinction I'm not however. Calling a player a diver, whether he's taken a dive or not, is the issue to me.

Southgate recently made it pretty obvious he thinks Ronaldo is a cheat. Whether Ronaldo actually dived in that game I don't know; I haven't actually seen the clip... course Fergie said no.

The thing is, to me, that as anyone can be wrong managers can call players on dives they haven't actually committed, as Mourinho has now demonstrated. Therefore, you're bound to have divers called out on occassions when they haven't actually dived...

Whether they come right out and call them divers, or just say "we know he's like that" makes no difference to me. I actually think it's better to just come right out and say what you think then insinuate your meaning.

He didn't dive for the penalty though, just for the free kick.


Though I'd get in there before Coop.

Still dived.

Southgate just said "we know who the player is"

Stumbled is the word.

"Whether they come right out and call them divers, or just say "we know he's like that" makes no difference to me. I actually think it's better to just come right out and say what you think then insinuate your meaning."

Well thats where we differ i guess, i dont think a manager is in any position to comment on a oppositions players behavior, their job is to oversee their players and their club not others. Its the job of the FA and referees to actively pursue consistant offenders, having a media circus helps nobody. However perhaps managers and the media alike in the UK wouldn't have the fuel to ignite such an scenario if the FA and Referees did their bloody jobs right.

ParktheHeraldAngelsSing wrote:Stumbled is the word.

I think you'll find the word is love.

Festive Genius wrote:"Whether they come right out and call them divers, or just say "we know he's like that" makes no difference to me. I actually think it's better to just come right out and say what you think then insinuate your meaning."

Well thats where we differ i guess, i dont think a manager is in any position to comment on a oppositions players behavior, their job is to oversee their players and their club not others. Its the job of the FA and referees to actively pursue consistant offenders, having a media circus helps nobody. However perhaps managers and the media alike in the UK wouldn't have the fuel to ignite such an scenario if the FA and Referees did their bloody jobs right.

I agree with what you're saying; managers are there to manage their squad...and that should be it. Implying another player took a dive is moving away from that in the same fashion however. I'm just thinking if you're going to talk about shit you shouldn't at least admit you're doing it by being clear in what you're saying.

Trust me, I hate seeing managers talk about shit that has nothing to do with them...I do follow the Portuguese league afterall.

Luso 'Sporting' wrote:What's giving me grief however is that this is something all managers do. They accuse other team's players of actions their own players do. That's football. However, even known 'divers' don't always dive, and yet they still get the diving treatment whether they've done it or not.

Its even worse when the refs aren't unbiased anymore.

During the WC Robben got kicked, pummeled, sandwiched and bodychecked in the box (and out of it). Numerous times. Yet he didn't get one call his way in all 4 games by 4 different refs.
That's when refs aren't aware of a players reputation (whether fair or not), but blatantly let that bias affect their decisions. None of those refs did their trade in the premiership. Some of the defenders noticed that and they could get away with more & more abuse against Arjan.

Despite the fact we all know that the refs at this WC were the worse in years, this did my head in and left me disgusted.

Mourinho was being an arse again last night, card waving from the touchline.

Mourinho has real competition this year for the title. From what I have seen of the Chelsea games his team are scraping through and are not as balanced, or playing well as Man U. He is feeling the heat more IMO..

DD wrote:

Luso 'Sporting' wrote:What's giving me grief however is that this is something all managers do. They accuse other team's players of actions their own players do. That's football. However, even known 'divers' don't always dive, and yet they still get the diving treatment whether they've done it or not.

Its even worse when the refs aren't unbiased anymore.

During the WC Robben got kicked, pummeled, sandwiched and bodychecked in the box (and out of it). Numerous times. Yet he didn't get one call his way in all 4 games by 4 different refs.
That's when refs aren't aware of a players reputation (whether fair or not), but blatantly let that bias affect their decisions. None of those refs did their trade in the premiership. Some of the defenders noticed that and they could get away with more & more abuse against Arjan.

Despite the fact we all know that the refs at this WC were the worse in years, this did my head in and left me disgusted.

For sure, there are definitly players that practically can no longer get a penalty in their favour. It's a bad situation as there simply ceases to be honesty to the result of each match if refs set out with this mindset. Defenders are taking full advantage to really hit forwards hard as they know they can pretty much get away with anything against certain 'marked' players.

------------

On Mourinho, I bet he's having more fun then he's ever had since moving to England.

cooperclaus wrote:Mourinho was being an arse again last night, card waving from the touchline.

What's the difference between that and a manager telling the fourth official he should be booked? The same about foreign players waving their imaginary cards. Is that any different to Terry and Lampard running up to the ref telling him to book him?

Out of sight, out of mind.

Santa de Bahia wrote:

cooperclaus wrote:Mourinho was being an arse again last night, card waving from the touchline.

What's the difference between that and a manager telling the fourth official he should be booked? The same about foreign players waving their imaginary cards. Is that any different to Terry and Lampard running up to the ref telling him to book him?

Out of sight, out of mind.

agreed, i don't get some of the things in this country like that. It's one way or none.

I think part of the problem is when the media or who ever it may be, attempts to portray one group as morally superior to another.

This is football, and all teams will do what it takes to win. Some may be more vocal or blatant in their attempts to get an edge over the competition, but in the end every club is out to be the best and will do what it takes to get there.

Is there a player in any league that would run over to the ref and inform him that the ball has infact crossed his own goal line in the event the ref believes otherwise? I seriously doubt it, and if there is such a player he won't last long at any level. That's just the nature of sport, at least when millions are riding on every single season...and at times a single match.

(I'm not advocating dishonesty, and actually take pride in believing my club is an honest one, but I do expect a certain competitiveness that does negate a certain level of fair-play)

Santa de Bahia wrote:

cooperclaus wrote:Mourinho was being an arse again last night, card waving from the touchline.

What's the difference between that and a manager telling the fourth official he should be booked? The same about foreign players waving their imaginary cards. Is that any different to Terry and Lampard running up to the ref telling him to book him?

Out of sight, out of mind.

No, I never said it was different.. Terry and Lampard get slagged off all the time for surrounding the ref and telling him to book a player.

@ DD

This is what ruined Robben's reputation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuCHaOIpW6k

But imo, it's no worse than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HO-5m6xQdw

Something which never gets mentioned (and yet he's also a foreign player)

for the neville haters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWAAUIWCmsc&NR

"do you play for United?"

"Sometimes"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iquvo18vwYo&mode=related&search=




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKm1dLAXKI8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpzTv5fHgn0

(this guy was in the hospital the next day ) lol



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlZTfkuYHjg&mode=related&search=

the fucking classic

The links you should really be looking for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNbZA01XSoU&mode=related&search=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpzTv5fHgn0

LMFAO. Where's it from?

Some BBC drama earlier on in the year, The Street or something like that.

Jim Broadbent is the actor.