The Liverpool discussion thread 2006/2007

Shit, that bad?

He scores nearly everytime he starts and he's still a pretty good finisher. Not much else though. His link up play is good, but he's not actually fit enough to get into the positions to use it.

He's only 31 for fuck sakes... compare him with Larsson.

Rafa eyes Robbie replacement
Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez is keen to find a long-term replacement for club legend Robbie Fowler.

Fowler's Reds contract expires at the end of the season and Benitez has admitted the veteran is still the club's best finisher after his brace in their 4-0 win over Sheffield United.

Benitez has hinted the ex-Leeds and Manchester City man could yet stay at Anfield, although should he leave an expert finisher will need to be acquired.

"If we create chances for him, we know he's a very good finisher, the best we have," stated Benitez.

"If he can score goals every game, we will see, you never know. But we have a lot of games to play so we can talk about his future later.

"But if he's not with us next season then we will need to look for another one like him."

Keep him at the club for life I say. He can be Carraghers assistant after Benitez leaves.

You could replace Fowler with the poorer version: Owen.

Anyway, Voronin was impressive in the Ukraininan team during the WC - him alongside Tymoshuck and Sheva stuck out. Looks like a sound buy. That'll be the Bellamy replacement.

I'm not so convinced of Trez. He is a poorer version of RVN, but with better heading and slightly more movement. He's never much scored over 20 goals, and not to mention that he'll have to adapt to a much more physical league at 30(-ish). Look at Sheva.
I simply don't think Trezeguet will be the answer. At best he'll get 15 goals in his first season, but also many frustrating games. Wasn't he also a bit injury-prone?

I'm telling you, the man to get is Heerenveen's Afonso Alves. He's a complete striker, can take and make every type of goal in the book, has pace, has skills, vision, outthinks and oputplays opponents, can take killer setpieces, and has the winner's mentality. He'll also be lot cheaper and a surprise to everyone else.
He's the most impressive striker this year in europe (together with Drogba and Ibra).

Why is vornin being thought as a Bellamy replacement? Id say trhat Bellamy's a superior player so it doesnt really seem to make sense.

Well... I don't see how Voronin is supposed to replace Crouch. Different players.

Bellamys attitude problems perhaps?

Not saying he's gonna replace crouch.
Fowler is the only striker that it would make sense for him to leave.

Any about the attitude problem, its noit as if thats a suprise is it? They knew what they were getting so it seems a bit stupid to sell him for it...

Unless they said to him, 'We'll sign you, but if there's any off-pitch trouble you're on your bike'.

Roger Hunt wrote:Unless they said to him, 'We'll sign you, but if there's any off-pitch trouble you're on your bike'.

In all honesty, if I were to sign any of Bellamy, Pennant, Bowyer, Dyer, Thatcher... I'd add that to the contract.

'Zackly.

Bear in mind where we were last summer - basically 1 proven striker (Crouch) and one long shot (fowler).

Getting Bellers in was a gamble - but at £6m not a huge gamble, and he seemed to want to sign for us, which led me to hope he'd sort his head out.

Going into the 2007 summer transfer window - I'd say that Fowler is a goner, and I could see either of Bellamy or Crouch going (the former because we boot him, the latter because he wants to be first-choice).

So signing a decent striker as a bench-warmer makes a lot of sense to me at this point.

Some Voronin goals for those who want to write him off before he's even signed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQTn-JpV68s

Obispo wrote:Some Voronin goals for those who want to write him off before he's even signed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQTn-JpV68s

im writing him off right now.

He's decent but that's all. Better u let Fowler go and bring in some one like Villa or Eto'o. Imagine this strike force:

Bellamy
villa
crouch
kuijt

Would be nice but neither Crouch or Bellamy would accept 4th choice.

I'll say it again: Voronin will be 4th choice and one of Bellamy or Crouch will go depending on what type of striker we buy. If it's a Villa or an Eto'o, we'll sell Bellamy. If it's an Amauri or a Trezeguet, we'll sell Crouch

Obispo wrote:Some Voronin goals for those who want to write him off before he's even signed.

I have seen him play alot thank you.

Wasn't directed at you Bilal. There are plenty of people in general making out as if the bloke couldn't drop a bag of cement

He's not Walcott for fuck sakes!

He's not bad if someone mad that out of me then I m sorry as I said got good pace , works hard , is aggresive but he isnt good enough for Liverpool as we have said (you and me) FREE TRANSFER , 4TH choice striker.

Voronin?

You should've signed Berbatov last summer.

Thick Scouse Twats

That was a decent strike partnership though.

False expecations placed on Mark Gonzalez

Seems strange thinking about it right now, but it was only half a year ago that people thought this kid would become our Ronaldo, our Robben. A player upon whom we could depend to continually humiliate opposition fullbacks with a moment of skill or his blistering space. A player who was looked upon to score 10-15 goals from midfield in a season and make short-work of usurping Harry Kewell from the first 11. Anyone who watched him in the first half against Barcelona, away at the Bernabeu against Real Madrid or even in a friendly against the Republic of Ireland was found salvating at the prospect of seeing him terrorising Premiership defenders week-in, week-out in a red-shirt.

The quality of the strikes were to something to behold also. In particular the 35 yard freekick against Getafé that harked back to Roberto Carlos of 8-10 years ago, but with the kind of accuracy he never possessed. Equally impressive was the controlled volley against Numancia. It wasn't just the goals though, the general performances and the way he linked up with Prieto when the latter moved infield was quality.It was the kind of play that I in particular was just dying to see him and Gerrard pull off when Stevie moved further in midfield. Unfortunately we've yet to see it. Infact, we've yet to see anything other than small glimpses of what Gonzalez is capable of.

I personally think he's suffered from the expectations on his shoulders of being another Ronaldo - he was never that naturally gifted. He was never going to be able to pull off those kind of tricks, sadly. As much as his own performances have turned the fans' expecations into disappointment, the fact that Ronaldo has been tearing up the league this season has made it all the more insufferable. I've thought for a while now though that the Ronaldo/Robben expecations have been a little missplaced. For me, that's not what we have.

I think it would help alot of people if they stopped expecting that off him and instead, if they needed to compare him to a player, compared him to Ludovic Guily at Barcelona. Gonzalez possesses the similar blistering pace and great off the ball movement and his an equally capable striker on his strongest foot. It's true to say that he's not at Guily's level currently and he certainly doesn't have the same all-round awareness. He does have other attributes that Guily lacks though. His shooting from distance and set pieces are certainly more impressive. His work rate, defensive ability and aerial prowess are also great, but they're not exactly what you look for in a winger, though they're always nice to have.

I think - ok, hope - Saturday was a turning point in his Liverpool career. He rightly didn't receive the same sort of praise reserved for Gerrard, Mascherano and Pennant, but he did have a good game with a few promising moments. Firstly, he didn't seem quite as easily bullied as previously, nor was he as bemused when he didn't win a freekick for being shoulder barged. Also, his first touch was far better than the usually stumbling mess we've seen all too many times this season. And, whilst he didn't beat the fullback enough, passing the ball out to him on the left didn't seem like it was just us needlessly giving the ball away like it has at times this season.

Hopefully now that the expectation has all but vanished, he can show us just how good he is. He's more than capable of 10-15 goals in all competitions from midfield and I've no doubt his assist-play will improve as he develops an understanding with his team-mates. I think the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half at home to Spurs proved he's a more than capable crosser when given the opportunity, as did the chance he set up for Kuyt against United. What he needs to do - and I'm aware I'm stating the obvious - is just show us more of the positive moments. His freekick against Fulham was textbook, and his run to earn the penalty at Birmingham showed what a potent force he could be on the counter-attack, aswell as just a weapon to relieve pressure on the defence from set plays. It's amazing how many times the Mancs give the ball to Ronaldo and he runs them out of danger, Gonzalez can do the same for us. Also, his reactions have been top-class in his time here. He showed more killer instinct than Fowler to get into the box from Kenny's spilled shot on Saturday. He also got the goal against Spurs from a similar type of situation and against Haifa too. His movement off the ball and awareness has been very good this season in my opinion. The way he drifted infield towards the end of the first half against Spurs and flicked the ball around the corner for Bellamy was another moment of quality, so it's not like he's been completely hopeless.

I've said a few times, I'd quite like to see him as our Roberto Carlos in a 3-5-2 formation. I think his defensive attributes are often overlooked and he has the stamina to charge up and down the lefthandside. Infact, he started his career as a fullback. Sadly, I don't see his future there, but if he performs to the level he's capable of, I do see it in a red shirt.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to reiterate is, I genuienly think he could be our Guily. A midfield runner from deep who'll get into the box from the wing and into scoring positions. He's doing a good job of that part of his game so far, but little else. He needs to get more crosses in, occasionally beat the fullback - even if it's just a simple push & run - and obviously, up his goal-tally. There's plenty of work to be done, but he's not the hopeless case some have made out in my opinion.


Oh well, just my 2 cents on a player who's taken a fair bit of stick and is generally often over-looked as a first-teamer, despite still being only 22. Give him time

Did you write that Obispo? All of it? Summary?

Just kidding. Good read, great post.

whose article is that?

Mine. Churned it out just now 'cos I was bored and I so desperately want him to be good.

Gonzalez > Ribery.

Like to know the Barca fans opinions on the Guily comparison, was the most natural one I think (not that I'm saying he's at that level). I think they're both pacey, goalscoring wide midfielders who like to break infield from the flank and are both good finishers.

Obispo wrote:Mine. Churned it out just now 'cos I was bored and I so desperately want him to be good.

Confidence. I've only seen him turn on the style once in a Liverpool jersy, when he ran really, really fast and won us a penalty. Can't remember what match it was at though

He can run real fast, and I think his crossing is much more incisive than Pennant's, if less consistent. We all know the promise and potential, but the juries still out for me...Will he ever be able to cut it in the premiership?

I thought he was going to be great when he scored on his debut Vs Haifa, however he's just too lightwait and naive at the moment, he needs to adapt to the english game and learn how to use his pace in an effective way

Birmingham away that was.

That's the problem though - that's what too many people are expecting I think. He doesn't have the dribbling skills to do that regularly. Atleast not at Anfield where most teams sit deep.

That's why I think his role here will be more like Guily's at Barca - his pace being the biggest advantage off the ball, rather than on it.

If we want to utilise his pace on the ball then I think we should try him as a wingback - give him plenty of room to run into and build up a head of steam. His problem is that as a winger, we give him the ball when he and the fullback are near enough static, then expect him to just skip past him like Ronaldo does - he's not that good at general dribbling. If he had a head of steam he could just knock the ball into space and ease past the opposition marker.

It's like Gerrard when he runs with the ball - when he's on the counter-attack, you always expect him to beat someone because he's charging at pace. When we've got the ball at our feet for large periods of time though, you're far less expectant that he can beat his man without that head of steam built up already.

Obispo wrote:Birmingham away that was.

That's the problem though - that's what too many people are expecting I think. He doesn't have the dribbling skills to do that regularly. Atleast not at Anfield where most teams sit deep.

That's why I think his role here will be more like Guily's at Barca - his pace being the biggest advantage off the ball, rather than on it.

If we want to utilise his pace on the ball then I think we should try him as a wingback - give him plenty of room to run into and build up a head of steam. His problem is that as a winger, we give him the ball when he and the fullback are near enough static, then expect him to just skip past him like Ronaldo does - he's not that good at general dribbling. If he had a head of steam he could just knock the ball into space and ease past the opposition marker.

It's like Gerrard when he runs with the ball - when he's on the counter-attack, you always expect him to beat someone because he's charging at pace. When we've got the ball at our feet for large periods of time though, you're far less expectant that he can beat his man without that head of steam built up already.

In all of Gonzalez' recent games he hasn't been able to beat anyone, that's the problem. He's looked like the weak link. He also seems to be over reliant on team play, laying off short passes to close by team mates instead of even attempting to challenge the fullbacks. Even when he does try to be a little aggressive, he still seems hesitant.

I personally believe that he needs a decent pre-season under his belt, with a supporting fullback behind him, and a good run of games in the first team. How else is he going to adapt to the league? I like the idea of using him as a wing back, but surely that forces even more pressure on him to perform well? He has to cope with attacking and defensive work on one whole side of the field.

I do like the idea, but we can't go experimenting with it now. He needs to improve a lot in all aspects of his game before we throw him into the deep end.

You shouldnt have hyped him up so much, Obispo.