England the wide left position

Downing had a very good match yesterday in his first start, as Joe Cole was injured. Many believe Joe has been one of the better England players over recent times and one to come away from the WC with a modicum of respect, BUT with Gerrard playing RM and inevitably coming in field at times, if Joe Cole is re-introduced are England in danger of losing the width, stretching the opposition midfield that they suffered so badly from in the WC. What will McClaren do, stick with Downing or bring back Cole. Me i´d continue with Downing as we need some genuine width, throughout, which Gerrard only offers part of the time (nowt wrong with that, but somebody needs to offer in constantly)

id stay with cole.... he's just a better player and thats is crucial against the top teams... if mc'claren wants them to stay wide then he should tell them to stay wide.... the width thing isn't overly important anyway and cole and gerrard will always provdie it to some degree... its better to have variation

I'd give Joe Cole a chance first.

I know on paper it doesn't look great in terms of width but you have to see it in practice first.

I'm not sure if Cole is back for the next qualifiers or not at the moment though.

Downing was promosing yesterday though.

Or, drop Lampard, put Gerrard in the centre and Lennon on the right

Disappointed that Lampard scored (sorry, the defender got an uncredited own goal) last night as he might have risked being dropped otherwise.

COTR wrote:id stay with cole.... he's just a better player and thats is crucial against the top teams... if mc'claren wants them to stay wide then he should tell them to stay wide.... the width thing isn't overly important anyway and cole and gerrard will always provdie it to some degree... its better to have variation

the problem cotr is that cole will always want to come in field so we have nobody offering width then other than gerrard occassionally, in the WC we were always too narrow allowing teams to crowd the centre of the park and crowd us out with downing in the side they have to stretch their midfield thus allowing more space for the likes of gerrard to cause problems something we didn´t have throughout the WC. if you pick Cole i think your making the mistake again of picking the best players not necessarily the best TEAM

It's great to have these two options when 4 years ago England couldnt find even one...

I'd start with Cole, because he is basically the type of player who can make something out of nothing, a real flair player.

I know what Frank means about real width: Downing should definitely have the opportunity should Cole be playing badly. And then there is Richardson, who for the short time he was on the pitch last night, looked quite promising too.

If England do need real width though, I'd rather see Lennon giving it on the right, with Gerrard replacing Lampard in the centre and col remaining on the left, because Lennon is truly an enormous potential- one day quite possibly could be WC. Downing, whilst very good, doesnt have that explosive pace and control, and will never be WC I dont think (sorry Coop)

Joe Cole please.

Downing is not bad and worthy of a squad place, but he doesnt have the class that Cole has.

Yesterday the Greeks gave him a load of space to make his crosses, which won't happen against the big sides.

Joe Cole can hug the line if you really want him to. But him cutting will be helpful against better teams to try and control the central midfield, which is very important as we know. Cole has a decent left-foot and he does protect the full-back a lot even if he doesnt exactly play like a proper left-winger.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:
if you pick Cole i think your making the mistake again of picking the best players not necessarily the best TEAM

You have a point Frank.

Particularly worrying would be the extent to which the fullbacks would be exposed. Gerrard wandered all over the pitch last night (albeit mostly after we were 2-0 up and they were rubbish). Makes Hargreaves role even more vital.

I don't think width is really that important.

AC Milan have none, both Chelsea wingers cut inside a lot, both Barcelona wingers do the same thing, Argentina didnt have much width, neither did Brazil.

Italy had only 1 winger, and he didnt play all of the games.

Hardrada wrote:
Joe Cole can hug the line if you really want him to. But him cutting will be helpful against better teams to try and control the central midfield, which is very important as we know. Cole has a decent left-foot and he does protect the full-back a lot even if he doesnt exactly play like a proper left-winger.

Didn't see any of that in his play at the WC.

He also didn't link up well with A Cole, rarely passing outward when Cole made an overlapping run.

Still our best midfielder at WC.

Because there is no point in passing to A.Cole on the overlap, as he cant cross.

A.Cole overlapping is only good as a distracion for the defenders.

He does protect whoever is playing at full-back for Chelsea. Not as much as Duff, but more than Robben.

I dont understand why he didtnt use his left more at the WC, sicne he is far from 1 footed.

Hardrada wrote:I don't think width is really that important.

AC Milan have none, both Chelsea wingers cut inside a lot, both Barcelona wingers do the same thing, Argentina didnt have much width, neither did Brazil.

Italy had only 1 winger, and he didnt play all of the games.

but they all have players who are technically better than ours so need less space we need more space and as last night proves we are at our best when putting crosses into the box, england need width

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:but they all have players who are technically better than ours so need less space we need more space and as last night proves we are at our best when putting crosses into the box, england need width

its a good point.

I think it would perhaps be best to wait until Downing has played a proper international, before judging his contribution to the England team.

Getting rid of Cole on the basis of a player's decent performance against Greece seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

Without Cole the midfield really lacks creativity IMO.

Hardrada wrote:Because there is no point in passing to A.Cole on the overlap, as he cant cross.

A.Cole overlapping is only good as a distracion for the defenders.

Don't agree with this. OK Cole is not going to knock in high balls for a striker to get his head on. But he can take the ball to the byeline and then cut it back or cross low into the box. The trouble with JC cutting inside as at the WC was that he was running into the are already occupied by Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney, so the opposition defence isnt stretched.

Agree JC should not be dropped.

How about dropping Lampard and putting JC in the middle in last night's formation

Hardrada, i´m not adverse to lennon wide right and cole wide left with gerrard centrally, but lampard has done enough to keep the wolves from the door for a few more matches, and this is not a knee jerk reaction as england were also at their best in the WC with plenty of width, its imperative we have width which joe cannot provide all the time, he will naturally cut in field

We have three matches against Andorra, Macedonia and Macedonia to try things out now, before the first real tricky game against Croatia (I realise that the Macedonia games arent a given, but id be pretty pissed off if England dont get a result). We'll see how it goes.

the macedonia who won away at estonia last night if we experiment in these games we could be embaressed

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:the macedonia who won away at estonia last night if we experiment in these games we could be embaressed

Changing the odd midfielder should not be a problem. England should beat Macedonia at home. TBH though I think we will just see the same line up as last night. Only change possible is Joe Cole.

Didnt we play them in qualifying for Euros/WC a couple of years ago?

Or play:

Downing-Hargreaves-Gerrard-JCole.

With Downing providing width and JCole on his preferred position, Gerrard more freedom I think this could might work.

spartar many would like this but lamps bought himself a bit more time last night

Yeah, basically if we drop Lampard for Gerrard it's dead easy to make the midfield work.

The thing is, IMO Gerrard is better on the right.

So? Arguably Lennon gives a dimension that Gerrard doesn't on the right.

IMO Gerrard is playing better than Lampard for England at the moment. If Gerrard's form drops off of course, Lamps should come back in.

Id like to see Downing given a couple more chances in bigger games, but he probably wont get any more than sub appearances.

Agree. Now Becks out of the way and Hargreaves holding a place. England can try out gaining extra width with Downing. for a few games. Playing 4-4-2 Ashley Cole can get a work-out if he is not getting cover......

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

COTR wrote:id stay with cole.... he's just a better player and thats is crucial against the top teams... if mc'claren wants them to stay wide then he should tell them to stay wide.... the width thing isn't overly important anyway and cole and gerrard will always provdie it to some degree... its better to have variation

the problem cotr is that cole will always want to come in field so we have nobody offering width then other than gerrard occassionally, in the WC we were always too narrow allowing teams to crowd the centre of the park and crowd us out with downing in the side they have to stretch their midfield thus allowing more space for the likes of gerrard to cause problems something we didn´t have throughout the WC. if you pick Cole i think your making the mistake again of picking the best players not necessarily the best TEAM

i don't think wingers cutting inside is actually a great problem . we have been playing that way for along time. yeah u do have a point about the centre becomming narrow especially against teams that just sit down and decide to close u down as quickly as posible. We have had similar problems and we have not always had a way of answering it leading to people saying we lack plan B which i don't agree with. What we actually lacked was wingers who do not only cut inside but can also beat their man on the outside thereby keeping the pitch wide and creating space for others to run into. I think henry and RVP should play on the wings whenever we encounter such a problem. In the case of england, i think both lennon and downing can do that for u

I don't think, if used in the right system, that a right-footed player in the style of Joe Cole is a big deal.

Take Portugal for instance - in C.Ronaldo, Quaresma & Simao (with Figo before them of course) those are quality wide players, all natuarally right-footed, comfortable playing on either flank. Cole is of the same ilk IMO.Check out his goal at Highbury last season, or at Norwich the season before - he's got a very good left foot if he chooses to use it. He's also got the guile and technique that no-other english midfielder, bar possibly Carrick comes close to.

Downing was good last night, but neither he nor Richardson are ready to take on the world's best - and I doubt the ever will if I'm honest. The way Downing got owned by Daniel Alves in the Uefa Cup Final really doesn't make me fell confident about him, at all. As for Richardson, he's still being talked about as a "promising youngster" - 5 seasons of Leagueth Cup does not a star maketh.

TeamSpirit™ wrote:I don't think, if used in the right system, that a right-footed player in the style of Joe Cole is a big deal.

Take Portugal for instance - in C.Ronaldo, Quaresma & Simao (with Figo before them of course) those are quality wide players, all natuarally right-footed, comfortable playing on either flank. Cole is of the same ilk IMO.Check out his goal at Highbury last season, or at Norwich the season before - he's got a very good left foot if he chooses to use it. He's also got the guile and technique that no-other english midfielder, bar possibly Carrick comes close to.

Downing was good last night, but neither he nor Richardson are ready to take on the world's best - and I doubt the ever will if I'm honest. The way Downing got owned by Daniel Alves in the Uefa Cup Final really doesn't make me fell confident about him, at all. As for Richardson, he's still being talked about as a "promising youngster" - 5 seasons of Leagueth Cup does not a star maketh.

Still wasnt fit against Daniel Alves, stilll hadnt got his pace or confidence back since his injury.

Agooner wrote:i don't think wingers cutting inside is actually a great problem . we have been playing that way for along time.

yeah without success!!!

TeamSpirit™ wrote:I don't think, if used in the right system, that a right-footed player in the style of Joe Cole is a big deal.

Take Portugal for instance - in C.Ronaldo, Quaresma & Simao (with Figo before them of course) those are quality wide players, all natuarally right-footed, comfortable playing on either flank. Cole is of the same ilk IMO.

i have no particular problem with j cole but IF he and gerrard are the wide players we lack width, and do not stretch the opponents defence enough and get too narrow, england need width as our players are generally technically second rate to the likes of portugal hence i think that is a poor comparison. as i said in my opening post we are in danger of picking the best XI players again not necessarily the best team. if he finally dropped lampard and played gerrard centrally then i´d like to see cole right side where he could go outside more often as well as cutting in field