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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:42 pm

    You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is white, the best golfer is black, the Germans refuse to go to war, the French accuse the US of arrogance, Ruud Van Nistelrooy scores a goal outside the area, and Real Madrid put 3 goals past Barca in the Camp Nou with Capello as coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I'm gutted that we didn't win last night. Messi's last minute goal was like a bullet through my chest. But any Madrid fan would have taken a 3-3 before the game started so I'm still satisfied with the result. I wanted to go over a few points that have been discussed so far in the forum and add some of my own:

    -We finally get a decent ref for a clasico and people complain? The guy got nearly every decision right. A ref has to make decisions partly for the spectacle of the game. While Ramos should have gotten a red, remember that the ref forgave Marques for a clear yellow in the 3rd minute and forgave Deco for several crazy slides that would have given him a red as well. This balances out Diarra's and Ramos' potential red cards. Nobody can complain about the Oleguer red nor the penalty, which were clearcut. And Kas, you're dreaming if you think that was a Barca penalty in the end. Goofy tried a bad Deco dive by first backtracking to run into Diarra. The ref was wiser than to fall for that crap.

    -I hope Capello gets raped by a wild bear and gets AIDS from it. That hijo de puta did it again with his defensive Italian bullshit. Instead of getting the team to keep attacking and keep the ball when we were leading, he plays catenaccio!!!! You can't do that with crap players like Salgado and Helguera. You are really inviting trouble if you let Barca bring the ball up all the way to our final third.

    -Once again, San Iker saved us and although he conceided 3 goals, he was still MOM for me. Guti was great as well as Ruud, who I will never call Horseface again after his 3 goals against Barca this season. Last night he conviced me that he should stay next season, though I still hope we buy a flashier number 9.

    -Our worst players were Salgado (as predicted), Helguera, and Raul, who pulled another of his "Hollow Man" performances. It's true that Robinho screwed up when he came on, but he at least he was a threat to the Barca defense. In an incredibly open game, I don't remember Raul doing anything. But it's OK, he "worked hard" so the Madrid press will blow him anyway.

    However, I agree that the game was marked by the lack of quality, rather than class from either side. It reminded me of the ManU - Arsenal from 2 seasons ago that ended 4-2. Most of the goals were bad defensive mistakes. Ruud's first was a bad Thuram clearance + Valdes stood like a statue and our second was a stupid Oleguer penalty. Ramos' goal was class though. As for Barca's goals, the first Messi had 10 minutes to place his shot, in the second Salgado let Roanldinho walk past him and in the third Helguera did a horrible tackle where he didn't get near Messi (great goal though).

    But the game brought me hope that we have a good nucleus for a team. Most of the players rose to the occasion last night and they just need a coach who has a pair of balls to take them forward.
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    Post by Machiavel Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:51 pm

    @ Torrente

    Don't worry Cappello will be sacked at the end of the season, what did you make of Iniesta and Guti last night?

    btw, do you live in Holland?
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    Post by Ä Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:52 pm

    Torrente wrote:
    But the game brought me hope that we have a good nucleus for a team. Most of the players rose to the occasion last night and they just need a coach who has a pair of balls to take them forward.

    don't worry

    you'll get pair of German balls next season

    maybe Schuster will then do a swap deal with Bremen

    Raul for Klose and Emerson for Frings <Ale>
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:01 pm

    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    Don't worry Cappello will be sacked at the end of the season, what did you make of Iniesta and Guti last night?

    btw, do you live in Holland?


    There's no doubt that both Iniesta and Guti were the best midfielders on the field. They instigated most of the attacks for either team. I'm especially happy for Guti, who continues to be criminally underrated outside of Spain. Nevertheless, Guti remains quite inconsistent so I hope he keeps this level for the rest of the season. In Iniesta's case, he's already proving to be a better player than Xavi IMO.

    And yes, I live in Maastricht
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:02 pm

    yeah this wasnt one of the best classico even some media just look at the two teams and see the result and go with a headline" great football in the big classico" it was a good game but i have seen several other better classicos then this one.
    to use the good Laudrups points:

    both teams made the other look better then they were. he pointed to saldgado-helguera before the game as the main threat to Real. he said that messi did well but that the defence made it seem like he was having one of his best games.
    he then points to our worst problem; madrid never start getting the positive spin on their games. he says that allthough in general its a good result for Real it will be seen as faliure and it will be another week of bed press for the Real players and everything around them.

    for my own opinion:
    guti did well and raul was a ghost in game where he had a good chance to show stuff with alot of room. robinho did well for the 5-10 mins then did little. we had a good chance to stuff them with ALL those chances we had but we got punished at the end. only looking at the amount of chancs we should have won but overall its ok i gues. what makes my happy is that we have seen a crappy CL round again with negative play and then get to see a game with a lot of chances for once and that is good for football.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:06 pm

    Torrente wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    Don't worry Cappello will be sacked at the end of the season, what did you make of Iniesta and Guti last night?

    btw, do you live in Holland?


    There's no doubt that both Iniesta and Guti were the best midfielders on the field. They instigated most of the attacks for either team. I'm especially happy for Guti, who continues to be criminally underrated outside of Spain. Nevertheless, Guti remains quite inconsistent so I hope he keeps this level for the rest of the season. In Iniesta's case, he's already proving to be a better player than Xavi IMO.

    And yes, I live in Maastricht

    I still thin that Xavi is better at dictating the pace of the game (which he failed to do in the second half), but Iniesta is better in attack and also more unpredictable.

    Guti had a good game.. but I still prefer to look at the first half when it was 11 v 11 and I think that after the initial 15 mins then we had managed to take over. Still the second half was almost all yours..
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    Post by Machiavel Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:08 pm

    @ Torrente

    You can tell by Ramos/Capello's reaction when Messi equalised in the 91st minute how close Real came to a 'historic' win .. i think Barcelona have not lost to Madrid in a 'sufficient' number of games?

    Maastricht is a nice city, don't want to go off-topic, but you keep a eye on Dutch football?


    Last edited by on Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:08 pm

    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    Torrente wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    Don't worry Cappello will be sacked at the end of the season, what did you make of Iniesta and Guti last night?

    btw, do you live in Holland?


    There's no doubt that both Iniesta and Guti were the best midfielders on the field. They instigated most of the attacks for either team. I'm especially happy for Guti, who continues to be criminally underrated outside of Spain. Nevertheless, Guti remains quite inconsistent so I hope he keeps this level for the rest of the season. In Iniesta's case, he's already proving to be a better player than Xavi IMO.

    And yes, I live in Maastricht

    I still thin that Xavi is better at dictating the pace of the game (which he failed to do in the second half), but Iniesta is better in attack and also more unpredictable.

    Guti had a good game.. but I still prefer to look at the first half when it was 11 v 11 and I think that after the initial 15 mins then we had managed to take over. Still the second half was almost all yours..
    i get what you mean about xavi controlling the game and stuff. people say that they are alike but im not so sure. inesta likes to run forward with the ball and play quick one twos whereas xavi sits back and does his thing. but earlier in xavi was more like inesta i would say.
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:08 pm

    ottOld Shatterhand wrote:
    Torrente wrote:
    But the game brought me hope that we have a good nucleus for a team. Most of the players rose to the occasion last night and they just need a coach who has a pair of balls to take them forward.

    don't worry

    you'll get pair of German balls next season

    maybe Schuster will then do a swap deal with Bremen

    Raul for Klose and Emerson for Frings <Ale>


    I'm still a bit skeptical about Schuster, but at least we know that he will be an attacking coach and that the young players like Robinho and Higuain should flourish under him. At this point in time, he seems to be exactly what Madrid needs.

    The Klose swap is tempting though I think we should get a young number 9 next season (maybe Soldado) rather than another 30+ player.

    And don't worry, you guys can have Ernesto for free. We'll pay his plane ticket, his house, his maid, his driver, and maybe even the gasoline for his car during his first season. ok
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:10 pm

    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    You can tell by Ramos/Capello's reaction when Messi equalised in the 91st minute how close Real came to a 'historic' win .. i think Barcelona have not lost to Madrid in a 'sufficient' number of games?

    Maastricht is a nice city, don't want to go off-topic, but you keep a eye on Dutch football?
    acutally we won in the 2003/2004 season at nou camp but before that the game we hadnt won for some 20 years. allthough that only counts for the league as we beat them in the semis in 02 cl.
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    Post by Machiavel Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:11 pm

    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    You can tell by Ramos/Capello's reaction when Messi equalised in the 91st minute how close Real came to a 'historic' win .. i think Barcelona have not lost to Madrid in a 'sufficient' number of games?

    Maastricht is a nice city, don't want to go off-topic, but you keep a eye on Dutch football?
    acutally we won in the 2003/2004 season at nou camp but before that the game we hadnt won for some 20 years. allthough that only counts for the league as we beat them in the semis in 02 cl.

    Overall in 24 years Barcelona have a good record against Real Madrid at the Nou Camp?
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:14 pm

    Rai Krol wrote:
    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    You can tell by Ramos/Capello's reaction when Messi equalised in the 91st minute how close Real came to a 'historic' win .. i think Barcelona have not lost to Madrid in a 'sufficient' number of games?

    Maastricht is a nice city, don't want to go off-topic, but you keep a eye on Dutch football?
    acutally we won in the 2003/2004 season at nou camp but before that the game we hadnt won for some 20 years. allthough that only counts for the league as we beat them in the semis in 02 cl.

    Overall in 24 years Barcelona have a good record against Real Madrid at the Nou Camp?
    a super record.we have a hard time playing there. i think its just that there is more of a non friendly amostphere in barcelona as we are seen as the devil whereas in madrid i think they are seen as a big rival that we hate but not quite as much as they hate us. i think that is the reason we have had time there.
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:16 pm

    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    Torrente wrote:
    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    Don't worry Cappello will be sacked at the end of the season, what did you make of Iniesta and Guti last night?

    btw, do you live in Holland?


    There's no doubt that both Iniesta and Guti were the best midfielders on the field. They instigated most of the attacks for either team. I'm especially happy for Guti, who continues to be criminally underrated outside of Spain. Nevertheless, Guti remains quite inconsistent so I hope he keeps this level for the rest of the season. In Iniesta's case, he's already proving to be a better player than Xavi IMO.

    And yes, I live in Maastricht

    I still thin that Xavi is better at dictating the pace of the game (which he failed to do in the second half), but Iniesta is better in attack and also more unpredictable.

    Guti had a good game.. but I still prefer to look at the first half when it was 11 v 11 and I think that after the initial 15 mins then we had managed to take over. Still the second half was almost all yours..


    That's a valid point. Xavi is probably more efficient at setting the tempo of the game while Iniesta is more of an impact player. Iniesta can always develop that part of his game though. Personally, I didn't rate Xavi very highly until 3 seasons ago when he was already 24 I believe. Isn't Iniesta only 20?
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:18 pm

    20 or 21 .. He wil be immense in 4-5 years time.

    Apparently many Barcelona players think he is the one with the best technique in the squad..

    If only he was 1.85 and weighed 80 kgs..
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:19 pm

    Rai Krol wrote:@ Torrente

    You can tell by Ramos/Capello's reaction when Messi equalised in the 91st minute how close Real came to a 'historic' win .. i think Barcelona have not lost to Madrid in a 'sufficient' number of games?

    Maastricht is a nice city, don't want to go off-topic, but you keep a eye on Dutch football?

    To be honest I haven't followed too much Dutch football in the past year. I try to watch the summaries on Nederland 2 but I hardly watch live games whether on tv or in the stadium. I've been meaning to change that though.
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:22 pm

    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:20 or 21 .. He wil be immense in 4-5 years time.

    Apparently many Barcelona players think he is the one with the best technique in the squad..

    If only he was 1.85 and weighed 80 kgs..
    ,
    not really though. i think he would lose some of his agilty which is imo is his best quality. i have never seen a players so flexible or agile.i liked the old xavi better then inesta currently but he a great player still.i hope its deco that has to go and not ineste because i cant see them having the 3 migets for another two or three years.
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:23 pm

    @supermadrid(zizou legend)


    Laudrup certainly has a point. This will probably go down as a legendary Messi performance (understandably so) but I think he's had much better games than this. The Madrid defense made it incredibly easy for him to score every single time. It's a shame Torres picked last night to have his worst game in a Madrid shirt. I hope this doesn't discourage him though because he's been great for us so far.
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:28 pm

    Torrente wrote:@supermadrid(zizou legend)


    Laudrup certainly has a point. This will probably go down as a legendary Messi performance (understandably so) but I think he's had much better games than this. The Madrid defense made it incredibly easy for him to score every single time. It's a shame Torres picked last night to have his worst game in a Madrid shirt. I hope this doesn't discourage him though because he's been great for us so far.
    i dont really get why everybody says he has had a bad game. it was not his best but really didnt think he was that bad. i mean messi always cut inside and rarely got around him. i dont foult torres for any of the goals so im not sure why people are pointing torres. and i thought messi was quite quiet to be honest.the last goal will make him look like he was maradona when in reality it was helguera balerina skills that gave him the opening.i still think its incredible that the master of tactics and defencs aka cappello still cant see that saldgado and helguera are crap and twhen the together then Yikes
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:30 pm

    The fact is that Messi was Torres responsibility since we didn't have a right back coming forward.

    I actually thought Helguera was better in defense than Ramos yesterday. Ramos lost his position constantly in the first half, and was too ball fixated, running out of defense all the time.
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:34 pm

    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:The fact is that Messi was Torres responsibility since we didn't have a right back coming forward.

    I actually thought Helguera was better in defense than Ramos yesterday. Ramos lost his position constantly in the first half, and was too ball fixated, running out of defense all the time.
    Yikes Yikes
    what the hell were you watching. im not someone who normally gets agressive but such comments cant be accepted. he was CRAP and utter CRAP. you have to be kidding. ramos-torres>>>saldgao-helguera all the way. i gues we all watch the game with our eyes but i thought everybody would saw the same that i saw. maybe some others can help.
    how bad was helguera?
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:34 pm

    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Torrente wrote:@supermadrid(zizou legend)


    Laudrup certainly has a point. This will probably go down as a legendary Messi performance (understandably so) but I think he's had much better games than this. The Madrid defense made it incredibly easy for him to score every single time. It's a shame Torres picked last night to have his worst game in a Madrid shirt. I hope this doesn't discourage him though because he's been great for us so far.
    i dont really get why everybody says he has had a bad game. it was not his best but really didnt think he was that bad. i mean messi always cut inside and rarely got around him. i dont foult torres for any of the goals so im not sure why people are pointing torres. and i thought messi was quite quiet to be honest.the last goal will make him look like he was maradona when in reality it was helguera balerina skills that gave him the opening.i still think its incredible that the master of tactics and defencs aka cappello still cant see that saldgado and helguera are crap and twhen the together then Yikes

    He didn't have a bad game due to Messi going past him all the time, because that didn't happen. He had a bad game because in Messi's first 2 goals, he was completely unmarked. Torres was nowhere near Messi. There was also another Messi chance which he missed on the one-on-one with Casillas in the first half were Torres was nowhere to be seen. Let's just say we finally saw Torres "play his age" last night.
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    Post by TM Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:35 pm

    @ Torrente

    RE: Bullet through the chest ok

    I felt sick when Messi scored. Stupid Helguera diving in for no reason Rolling Eyes

    We were 4 minutes away!
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:36 pm

    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:The fact is that Messi was Torres responsibility since we didn't have a right back coming forward.

    I actually thought Helguera was better in defense than Ramos yesterday. Ramos lost his position constantly in the first half, and was too ball fixated, running out of defense all the time.
    Yikes Yikes
    what the hell were you watching. im not someone who normally gets agressive but such comments cant be accepted. he was CRAP and utter CRAP. you have to be kidding. ramos-torres>>>saldgao-helguera all the way. i gues we all watch the game with our eyes but i thought everybody would saw the same that i saw. maybe some others can help.
    how bad was helguera?

    I'm with you here. Poor Ramos had to deal with Helguera's incompetence all night. Ramos wasn't amazing by any means, but he was lightyears ahead of Helguera, who looked like an even slower version of Cannavaro last night.
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:37 pm

    Torrente wrote:
    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Torrente wrote:@supermadrid(zizou legend)


    Laudrup certainly has a point. This will probably go down as a legendary Messi performance (understandably so) but I think he's had much better games than this. The Madrid defense made it incredibly easy for him to score every single time. It's a shame Torres picked last night to have his worst game in a Madrid shirt. I hope this doesn't discourage him though because he's been great for us so far.
    i dont really get why everybody says he has had a bad game. it was not his best but really didnt think he was that bad. i mean messi always cut inside and rarely got around him. i dont foult torres for any of the goals so im not sure why people are pointing torres. and i thought messi was quite quiet to be honest.the last goal will make him look like he was maradona when in reality it was helguera balerina skills that gave him the opening.i still think its incredible that the master of tactics and defencs aka cappello still cant see that saldgado and helguera are crap and twhen the together then Yikes

    He didn't have a bad game due to Messi going past him all the time, because that didn't happen. He had a bad game because in Messi's first 2 goals, he was completely unmarked. Torres was nowhere near Messi. There was also another Messi chance which he missed on the one-on-one with Casillas in the first half were Torres was nowhere to be seen. Let's just say we finally saw Torres "play his age" last night.
    yeah i talked alot about those goals with my friends but we werent really sure if the first goal was his foult. i mean he tired to play it offside along with ramos but the other two clowns dont know the meaning of offside trap. the third goal i blame salgado and helguera allthough messi should not be so freei agree. i still think torres has a big future and is a good talent.
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    Post by Oleguerisntthatbad Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:37 pm

    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:The fact is that Messi was Torres responsibility since we didn't have a right back coming forward.

    I actually thought Helguera was better in defense than Ramos yesterday. Ramos lost his position constantly in the first half, and was too ball fixated, running out of defense all the time.
    Yikes Yikes
    what the hell were you watching. im not someone who normally gets agressive but such comments cant be accepted. he was CRAP and utter CRAP. you have to be kidding. ramos-torres>>>saldgao-helguera all the way. i gues we all watch the game with our eyes but i thought everybody would saw the same that i saw. maybe some others can help.
    how bad was helguera?

    Like I said based on the first half.. For instance what was Ramos doing when he hacked down Ronaldinho? He was very very far away from his position. He is a bit of a headless chicken in central defense, but a very good right back.
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    Post by TM Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:42 pm

    You farsa fans keep going on about that, it was not a hack Ramos tried getting his foot around goofy to get the ball but got his leg Very Happy

    Also Casillas gave him a high five after that ok
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    Post by Super Progress Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:42 pm

    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:The fact is that Messi was Torres responsibility since we didn't have a right back coming forward.

    I actually thought Helguera was better in defense than Ramos yesterday. Ramos lost his position constantly in the first half, and was too ball fixated, running out of defense all the time.
    Yikes Yikes
    what the hell were you watching. im not someone who normally gets agressive but such comments cant be accepted. he was CRAP and utter CRAP. you have to be kidding. ramos-torres>>>saldgao-helguera all the way. i gues we all watch the game with our eyes but i thought everybody would saw the same that i saw. maybe some others can help.
    how bad was helguera?

    Like I said based on the first half.. For instance what was Ramos doing when he hacked down Ronaldinho? He was very very far away from his position. He is a bit of a headless chicken in central defense, but a very good right back.
    i agree. Laudrup also keeps pointing out that ramos needs to learn to control his temper and when to be agresive. Laudrup when on to exuces him with being surrounded with saldgado,helguera and that cannavaro was supposed to teach him but instead has been very bad.
    but actually i saw there was a time where inesta was at the corner flag and ramos came rushing and i was sure he was gonna hack him down and then he just stopped and let inesta play the ball out for a goalkick. so maybe he is getting a bit smarter.
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:44 pm

    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:
    supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
    Oleguerisntthatgreat wrote:The fact is that Messi was Torres responsibility since we didn't have a right back coming forward.

    I actually thought Helguera was better in defense than Ramos yesterday. Ramos lost his position constantly in the first half, and was too ball fixated, running out of defense all the time.
    Yikes Yikes
    what the hell were you watching. im not someone who normally gets agressive but such comments cant be accepted. he was CRAP and utter CRAP. you have to be kidding. ramos-torres>>>saldgao-helguera all the way. i gues we all watch the game with our eyes but i thought everybody would saw the same that i saw. maybe some others can help.
    how bad was helguera?

    Like I said based on the first half.. For instance what was Ramos doing when he hacked down Ronaldinho? He was very very far away from his position. He is a bit of a headless chicken in central defense, but a very good right back.

    The problem is that Ramos needs a leader to help him in defense (remember that he's only 20). If you watch the games where Ramos played next to Woodgate last season, Ramos was IMMENSE. To me, he played even better than any game as RB he's had with us. We thought Cannavaro would help Ramos the way Woodgate did, but instead he's been a complete mess. I'm convinced that Ramos' best position is as CB and that all he needs is an experienced partner to help his development.
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    Post by TM Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:44 pm

    Ramos will learn with time he's come a long way within a year and a half Very Happy
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    Post by Torrente Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:45 pm

    Target Man wrote:You farsa fans keep going on about that, it was not a hack Ramos tried getting his foot around goofy to get the ball but got his leg Very Happy

    Also Casillas gave him a high five after that ok

    Haha. I didn't see that. LEGEND Ale

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