European Cups, teams, and fans

cule, does it matter which side?

Let me tell you of a story of about 5-6 years ago when I was in Rome, while backpacking across europe... I made good friends with 4 americans staying at the same hotel, we did the touristy bit, partyed together, and we became good friends. They saw me desperately try for tickets to the Roma-Inter game that saturday, and were very curious coz thats what the whole city was talking about (it was the season Roma won the scudetto). Everywhere, it was all about football. All I had to do was the aeroplane impression and all locals would shout MON-TELLLLLLL-AAAAAA!!!

Anyways, these guys had never seen a "sawker" game before (mostly baseball and "football" fans), so they bought tickets more out of curiousity to see what the fuss is all about... I tried to tell them about the atmosphere and the passion, but it was more like "we ve been to the superbowl, we know all about it"... You should have seen the look on their faces as the olympico filled up, and the response the announcer got when he introduced the Roma players... and the game (I have been to many games, but that one was one of teh more passionate ones, probably coz Roma were in hunt for the title)... we had this big fat italian guy sitting next to me and one of the girls, and before the game he told us how all his family for 4 generations supports Roma, and watch games together, and how rest of them couldn't make it today coz of some family wedding... through out the game, he kept critizising very touch by a roma player (except a few exceptional ones by Totti), very touch by any Inter player, with a passion, and he kept standing up and sitting down and never realised that we were not really listening to his commentary... half of it was in Italian anyways, and wasn't very polite judging by the tone. What intrigued my american friends more was that almost EVERY person in the stadium was like that.... the passion was incredible... the noise deafening throughout the game (with two very brief hushes, one for each Vieri goal, when the few thousand Inter away fans erupted). Must add a line about them, the constant deafening chants by over 70,000 Roma fans never disheartened the Inter away fans... they were always standing, always cheering their team on (How I wished I was with them in teh away section!!).

Final score, Roma 3-2 Inter, and an unbelievable performance by Totti.

But this is not about the game. We did not discuss the game over bottles of chianti that evening (its no fun discussin with american "football" fans!!), all the talk was about the atmosphere and the passion - these guys were spellbound that a game can bring out such passion from people. I think "sawker" just won itself 4 new fans that evening.

Coz in Italy, its not a game. Its like a religion.

bluenine wrote:Let me tell you of a story of about 5-6 years ago when I was in Rome, while backpacking across europe... I made good friends with 4 americans staying at the same hotel, we did the touristy bit, partyed together, and we became good friends. They saw me desperately try for tickets to the Roma-Inter game that saturday, and were very curious coz thats what the whole city was talking about (it was the season Roma won the scudetto). Everywhere, it was all about football. All I had to do was the aeroplane impression and all locals would shout MON-TELLLLLLL-AAAAAA!!!

Anyways, these guys had never seen a "sawker" game before (mostly baseball and "football" fans), so they bought tickets more out of curiousity to see what the fuss is all about... I tried to tell them about the atmosphere and the passion, but it was more like "we ve been to the superbowl, we know all about it"... You should have seen the look on their faces as the olympico filled up, and the response the announcer got when he introduced the Roma players... and the game (I have been to many games, but that one was one of teh more passionate ones, probably coz Roma were in hunt for the title)... we had this big fat italian guy sitting next to me and one of the girls, and before the game he told us how all his family for 4 generations supports Roma, and watch games together, and how rest of them couldn't make it today coz of some family wedding... through out the game, he kept critizising very touch by a roma player (except a few exceptional ones by Totti), very touch by any Inter player, with a passion, and he kept standing up and sitting down and never realised that we were not really listening to his commentary... half of it was in Italian anyways, and wasn't very polite judging by the tone. What intrigued my american friends more was that almost EVERY person in the stadium was like that.... the passion was incredible... the noise deafening throughout the game (with two very brief hushes, one for each Vieri goal, when the few thousand Inter away fans erupted). Must add a line about them, the constant deafening chants by over 70,000 Roma fans never disheartened the Inter away fans... they were always standing, always cheering their team on (How I wished I was with them in teh away section!!).

Final score, Roma 3-2 Inter, and an unbelievable performance by Totti.

But this is not about the game. We did not discuss the game over bottles of chianti that evening (its no fun discussin with american "football" fans!!), all the talk was about the atmosphere and the passion - these guys were spellbound that a game can bring out such passion from people. I think "sawker" just won itself 4 new fans that evening.

Coz in Italy, its not a game. Its like a religion.

What so fan violence is allowed because of Passion?

jdbfs wrote:cule, does it matter which side?

Well the best view is in the second tier on the side stands but avoid the covered stand as it's full of annoying old people,businessmen and tourists.

bluenine, thanks for the story. I understand the passion in Italy. In earlier posts, I related this to the passion in college football. It is just as crazy. When I went to games, I stood up all 4 quarters. Only sat down at half time. The environment is crazy!!! So as an American, I can relate to that passion and understand. It is quite exciting and fun. I agree that you can't even compare the Super Bowl to a college football game where I am from. The SB is an event. College football is a PASSION! BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!!

However, this goes back to my original question. Believe it or not, I can relate to that passion. (Try a big time college football game in the South. People that aren't from there are stunned at the atmosphere!) But why the violence? That is the difference. As an Italian, what is your input on that and why is there a difference between passionate "football" fans in America and passionate football fans in Italy?

How much audience college football gets jdbfs and what are the stakes.

Dark Savant wrote:How much audience college football gets jdbfs and what are the stakes.

I think the most popular teams get huge attendances. Average crowds of up to and maybe even slightly more than 100,000

I am not an Italian, but I do know a bit about their football.

The passion is at another level. You have to see it to believe it. And I always thought that the cricket fans in India were crazy....

The violence bit is coz many of the hardcore fans (ultras) are hooligans. When you have a lot of such people together, then put in the passion, its not a good mix. Its sad that a few such people are ruining the name of so many great passionate supporters of the game in Italy.

jdbfs wrote:bluenine, thanks for the story. I understand the passion in Italy. In earlier posts, I related this to the passion in college football. It is just as crazy. When I went to games, I stood up all 4 quarters. Only sat down at half time. The environment is crazy!!! So as an American, I can relate to that passion and understand. It is quite exciting and fun. I agree that you can't even compare the Super Bowl to a college football game where I am from. The SB is an event. College football is a PASSION! BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!!

However, this goes back to my original question. Believe it or not, I can relate to that passion. (Try a big time college football game in the South. People that aren't from there are stunned at the atmosphere!) But why the violence? That is the difference. As an Italian, what is your input on that and why is there a difference between passionate "football" fans in America and passionate football fans in Italy?

Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

bluenine wrote:I am not an Italian, but I do know a bit about their football.

The passion is at another level. You have to see it to believe it. And I always thought that the cricket fans in India were crazy....

The violence bit is coz many of the hardcore fans (ultras) are hooligans. When you have a lot of such people together, then put in the passion, its not a good mix. Its sad that a few such people are ruining the name of so many great passionate supporters of the game in Italy.

jdbfs wrote:bluenine, thanks for the story. I understand the passion in Italy. In earlier posts, I related this to the passion in college football. It is just as crazy. When I went to games, I stood up all 4 quarters. Only sat down at half time. The environment is crazy!!! So as an American, I can relate to that passion and understand. It is quite exciting and fun. I agree that you can't even compare the Super Bowl to a college football game where I am from. The SB is an event. College football is a PASSION! BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!!

However, this goes back to my original question. Believe it or not, I can relate to that passion. (Try a big time college football game in the South. People that aren't from there are stunned at the atmosphere!) But why the violence? That is the difference. As an Italian, what is your input on that and why is there a difference between passionate "football" fans in America and passionate football fans in Italy?

yeah i think nobody beats italians. thats why im so mad i missed the chance to see milan-inter in cl quaters. of course i wouldnt have gotten a full games worth of my money.

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

get your point. english are more loyal.but its about diferent mindsets and temperaments. for example when Real do really bad in a game i tend to just start making jokes about how much they suck and hope they keep conceeding. its weird but as soon they are equalise im right their with them again.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

get your point. english are more loyal. for example when Real do really bad in a game i tend to just start making jokes about how much they suck and hope they keep conceeding. its weird but as soon they are equalise im right their with them again.

We were getting beat 4-0 at Charlton and yet all we did was sing...that was a game that looked like it had relegated us, yet what mattered was that it was the team that we love on the pitch.

Deano Kanouté wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

get your point. english are more loyal. for example when Real do really bad in a game i tend to just start making jokes about how much they suck and hope they keep conceeding. its weird but as soon they are equalise im right their with them again.

We were getting beat 4-0 at Charlton and yet all we did was sing...that was a game that looked like it had relegated us, yet what mattered was that it was the team that we love on the pitch.

yup and madrid fans would have cursed them out. some think fans should always be behind them but i think its fine to let them know they did bad.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

get your point. english are more loyal. for example when Real do really bad in a game i tend to just start making jokes about how much they suck and hope they keep conceeding. its weird but as soon they are equalise im right their with them again.

We were getting beat 4-0 at Charlton and yet all we did was sing...that was a game that looked like it had relegated us, yet what mattered was that it was the team that we love on the pitch.

yup and madrid fans would have cursed them out. some think fans should always be behind them but i think its fine to let them know they did bad.

Its true...but even when we are doing bad, we'll say FFS West Ham...fucking crap etc...but at the end of the day we'll stick by the club no matter what.

Passionate fans can be defined in so many ways...which is why I don't think you can group any particular ones out, as they all have different ways of showing it...

Dark Savant wrote:How much audience college football gets jdbfs and what are the stakes.

Many college football stadiums have attendances over 100,000. Let me give you an example of where I went to school. The city population of Columbia, SC is about 117,000. The stadium for the Univ of South Carolina holds 82,000. It is full every week and we are in the top 15 in the nation for average attendance every year. The same is true of our rivals, Clemson. However, Clemson is a town of only 10,000 people.

In 1999, my school went 0-11 in football. We still averaged 76,000 people for every game and were still in the top 15 in the nation in attendance. You have to remember many of the people have been fans of their school since they were born. Many of the fans spent 4 years or more at the school they root for so there is a significant, vested interest in the team. Hopefully, you can understand the passion a little better by my example. And we aren't even the largest school or have the most fans.

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

I said this somewhere: Napoli had 60 000 fans in Serie C1, Milan had 30 000 season tickets sold in Serie B (and over 50 000 fans at games), Genoa has 20-25 000 people in Serie B, Como has 8 000 season season tickets sold in Serie C2 and so on.

jdbfs, one thing I've always wondered about American sports, do supporters travel to away games in the NFL and similar competitions in the way that football fans do? Obviously the distances involved make it less practical but are there fans who go to every game, home and away, that there team play?

Good point, Deano.

I think the violence in Italy keeps away the families... and then there is a bit of the hangover effect of the 90s, when all the worlds greatest players used to play in Serie A... it is changing, very slowly tho... my italian friends tell me that most Italian now prefer to watch the game on tv... the passion is still there, its just that people don't like the unfriendly stadiums anymore.

Hopefully next season, with popular clubs like Juve/Napoli/Genoa back up, we will see this trend change... If these 3 clubs come up, I think you will see the highest attendances in Serie A for this decade.

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

I hope so...I'd love the Sampdoria crowds to hit over 30,000 again...I think the attendances have only averaged 21,000 at Ferraris...

gunner, there are a few. but not many to be honest. it depends on how close the game is. let's take an example. let's say i am a 49ers fan. if they play the raiders in oakland or possibly in san diego away fans may go. there are always a few of the fans for other teams. But to drive to San Diego is a good 8 hours. to fly there would cost $100 for the cheapest flight. and all that is within the same state. if the 49ers play the dolphins in miami, that is over 2500 miles away and a ticket would cost $500 or so.

The country is too big here to be able to do that with most of our sports teams. and there is really no such thing as budget airfare or affordable trains in the U.S. distances are too far and things are too expensive

Quite a lot of Italians are put off by the stadia from what I've heard. One of the reasons Juve get poor attendances is the inaccessability of their ground and the fact that it is a rubbish stadium to watch football in.

In Italy, the fans would turn on you when you are playing shit!! During the difficult period that Inter went thru, there was a time not too long ago when fans would mock Inter by cheering the opposition and booing the home team....

And I particularily remember when Vieri got this treatment from Inter fans for playinglike shit (in his defence, he had just come back from a long injury)... His every touch was booed. Of course, the rest is history... Vieri swore that he will not celebrate goals anymore, and he didn't celebrate a lot of goals that season as he became the capocannoneiri It was funny, this guy would keep scoring, then walk and pick the ball from the net. Sometimes he would look at the (now wildly cheering) ultras, and put his finger on his lips telling his own fans to shut the fuck up... Vieri always had balls

Deano Kanouté wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

get your point. english are more loyal. for example when Real do really bad in a game i tend to just start making jokes about how much they suck and hope they keep conceeding. its weird but as soon they are equalise im right their with them again.

We were getting beat 4-0 at Charlton and yet all we did was sing...that was a game that looked like it had relegated us, yet what mattered was that it was the team that we love on the pitch.

Deano Kanouté wrote:I hope so...I'd love the Sampdoria crowds to hit over 30,000 again...I think the attendances have only averaged 21,000 at Ferraris...

That's because Genoa is THE TEAM of the city. And the most titled one (9 scudeto).

Delle Alpi is at a bad location for Juve fans. But most Italian stadiums have an atheletic track in between!! If it werent for the awesome atmosphere in the big game/derbies, the viewing is pretty rubbish and far away.

Sheffield gunner wrote:Quite a lot of Italians are put off by the stadia from what I've heard. One of the reasons Juve get poor attendances is the inaccessability of their ground and the fact that it is a rubbish stadium to watch football in.

gone wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:I hope so...I'd love the Sampdoria crowds to hit over 30,000 again...I think the attendances have only averaged 21,000 at Ferraris...

That's because Genoa is THE TEAM of the city. And the most titled one (9 scudeto).

Genoa won stuff about a hundred years ago??? They are now Serie B...

Sampdoria>>>G*noa.

bluenine wrote:In Italy, the fans would turn on you when you are playing shit!! During the difficult period that Inter went thru, there was a time not too long ago when fans would mock Inter by cheering the opposition and booing the home team....

And I particularily remember when Vieri got this treatment from Inter fans for playinglike shit (in his defence, he had just come back from a long injury)... His every touch was booed. Of course, the rest is history... Vieri swore that he will not celebrate goals anymore, and he didn't celebrate a lot of goals that season as he became the capocannoneiri It was funny, this guy would keep scoring, then walk and pick the ball from the net. Sometimes he would look at the (now wildly cheering) ultras, and put his finger on his lips telling his own fans to shut the fuck up... Vieri always had balls

Deano Kanouté wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:Crowds in Italy have been shocking though.....if they start to do bad their crowds start to fall to around 17,000...passionate fans is more again to do with individual clubs...

For example West Ham have sold out every home game this season and all but 2 away games. We have sold 5,200 away tickets to Wigan (5 hour journey away) and have asked for 7,000.

Passion can be shown by the loyalty of supporters too, and I'm sorry to say I'm not sure if this always happens in Serie A

get your point. english are more loyal. for example when Real do really bad in a game i tend to just start making jokes about how much they suck and hope they keep conceeding. its weird but as soon they are equalise im right their with them again.

We were getting beat 4-0 at Charlton and yet all we did was sing...that was a game that looked like it had relegated us, yet what mattered was that it was the team that we love on the pitch.

Utter Class! Any YouTube videos I wonder?

Deano Kanouté wrote:

gone wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:I hope so...I'd love the Sampdoria crowds to hit over 30,000 again...I think the attendances have only averaged 21,000 at Ferraris...

That's because Genoa is THE TEAM of the city. And the most titled one (9 scudeto).

Genoa won stuff about a hundred years ago??? They are now Serie B...

Sampdoria>>>G*noa.

Yes, last title in 1924 or something like that. And have been for 10 year. Still they have a bigger support in the city.

gone wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:

gone wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:I hope so...I'd love the Sampdoria crowds to hit over 30,000 again...I think the attendances have only averaged 21,000 at Ferraris...

That's because Genoa is THE TEAM of the city. And the most titled one (9 scudeto).

Genoa won stuff about a hundred years ago??? They are now Serie B...

Sampdoria>>>G*noa.

Yes, last title in 1924 or something like that. And have been for 10 year. Still they have a bigger support in the city.

But doria are a newer club...we were only formed in 1946...so their last title was 22 years before we were even a club. Since then though we have won The Coppa Italia a few times (one in 95), The scudetto in 91 and got to the Champions league final in 92.

Speaking of fans, nothing in the world compares to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrY1nyqVd0Q

I remember this season, Sampdoria's only scudetto... Mancini + Vialli = magic!! But what I remember this season mostly for are the derbies... there were 4 great derby rivalries that season, all teams in the top 10

Pos - 1990-91 - PTS
1 SAMPDORIA 51
2 Inter 46
3 Milan 46
4 Genoa 40
5 Parma 38
6 Torino 38
7 Napoli 37
8 Juventus 37
9 Roma 36
10 Lazio 35

Deano Kanouté wrote:

gone wrote:

Deano Kanouté wrote:I hope so...I'd love the Sampdoria crowds to hit over 30,000 again...I think the attendances have only averaged 21,000 at Ferraris...

That's because Genoa is THE TEAM of the city. And the most titled one (9 scudeto).

Genoa won stuff about a hundred years ago??? They are now Serie B...

Sampdoria>>>G*noa.