La Liga Jornada 38 - The End!

S4P2 wrote:

bluenine wrote:Since 1991, he has won 9 titles in 5 different stints in 4 different clubs in Serie A and La Liga.

This included winning the league in his first 3 seasons at Milan. His first season at Real. His second season at Roma. And his first 2 seasons at Juve. And then his first season at Real.

And in the 90s, Serie A was far more difficult than EPL - its not the same thing.

No, I did not mean Italy... I meant the world.

(of course, his 2 titles with Juve have been taken back).

S4P2 wrote:

bluenine wrote:

IMO Capello is the best coach in the world when it comes to winning domestic leagues... yeah, better than Lippi.

Debatable. If you take it from 1991 onwards (when Capello won his first) there are 2 managers in the EPL alone who might dispute that, Fergies won more EPL titles than him, whilst Jose's won 4 league titles in 5 seasons. If you said in Italy alone, fair point, but best in the world?

I'm not knocking what he's achieved, because his record speaks for himself, but you could argue that he's never stayed at one club long enough to really say he's the most successful manager in the world when it comes to winning titles, and the clubs that he has gone to have always been developed and one of the very biggest clubs in the country. He never built a team up, like Ferguson did with Man Utd for example.

Mourinho may not have been around long enough to be compared to Capello, but his 4 titles in 5 seasons can make him put forward a claim to being the best manager at winning titles.

bluenine wrote:Well, it certainly can be argued... never implied that its undisputed

But as for building teams, he did build Roma... within 2 seasons!! And making Roma win the Scudetto is much bigger than winning the EPL with ManU. This real was also in shambles when Capello joined... (not saying that its fixed now, but they did just win La Liga!!).

What Capello has done is much bigger than what SAF did in my eyes. As for Mourinho, he will need another 10 years of similar success to reach Capello's level... Capello has been like a Mourinho for 15 years now!

S4P2 wrote:

bluenine wrote:Since 1991, he has won 9 titles in 5 different stints in 4 different clubs in Serie A and La Liga.

This included winning the league in his first 3 seasons at Milan. His first season at Real. His second season at Roma. And his first 2 seasons at Juve. And then his first season at Real.

And in the 90s, Serie A was far more difficult than EPL - its not the same thing.

No, I did not mean Italy... I meant the world.

(of course, his 2 titles with Juve have been taken back).

S4P2 wrote:

bluenine wrote:

IMO Capello is the best coach in the world when it comes to winning domestic leagues... yeah, better than Lippi.

Debatable. If you take it from 1991 onwards (when Capello won his first) there are 2 managers in the EPL alone who might dispute that, Fergies won more EPL titles than him, whilst Jose's won 4 league titles in 5 seasons. If you said in Italy alone, fair point, but best in the world?

I'm not knocking what he's achieved, because his record speaks for himself, but you could argue that he's never stayed at one club long enough to really say he's the most successful manager in the world when it comes to winning titles, and the clubs that he has gone to have always been developed and one of the very biggest clubs in the country. He never built a team up, like Ferguson did with Man Utd for example.

Mourinho may not have been around long enough to be compared to Capello, but his 4 titles in 5 seasons can make him put forward a claim to being the best manager at winning titles.

Rez wrote:
Fergie never had such a luxury, also Capello plays the worst football this side of Benitez.

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

Rez wrote:
Fergie never had such a luxury, also Capello plays the worst football this side of Benitez.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Depends what we're talking about. If one is trying to say Capello is a better tactician than Ferguson, then yes, that is absolutely true.

Fergie is a better motivator, however, and doesn't have the pig headed arrogance of Capello.

I used to like Don Capello, but the way he jumped ship afte Calciopoli (I don't blame him for doing it, but still the WAY he did it) was disgusting. He was beaming when he said "here we're hoping Milan and Juve get relegated because we want their players."

Disgusting. He worked for both, and he literally had no sympathy. Lippi or Ferguson would never have said that.

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

Cesc wrote:

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

But its not is it..

Newcastle cannot go out and buy Gabriel Batistuta's, Walter Samuel's, Cafu's, Vicenzo Montella's, Emerson's, Antonio Cassano's and inherit a Francesco Totti type player. Fabio Capello was given blank cheques to build that team.

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

Rez wrote:
Fergie never had such a luxury, also Capello plays the worst football this side of Benitez.

Rez wrote:

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

Rez wrote:
Fergie never had such a luxury, also Capello plays the worst football this side of Benitez.

Yeah because he has gone to the biggest clubs in the world and been giving unlimited funds to add to a team that were fully capable of winning the league. I am sure if Fergie went to the biggest clubs in the world and was given blank cheques he could win the league.

I am not saying Capellos jobs have been easy, but its far easier to build on something (with unlimited funds) than start from scratch and keep winning at the same place consistently, always avoiding complacency. Building 3 new teams during his time, nurturing players and turning raw talent into world class players.

Yeah he played great football at Milan, but he had already inherited a team that already played good football. Since Milan he has played some of the most boring football, despite having the funds to buy pretty much any player he wants.

Capello has a fantastic record, but I wouldnt want him at united and I dont think most top clubs would want him as a manager. At least boring sucessful managers like Benitez and Mourinho have/had the excuse of limited funds and limited players.

kas wrote:

Rez wrote:

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

Rez wrote:
Fergie never had such a luxury, also Capello plays the worst football this side of Benitez.

Yeah because he has gone to the biggest clubs in the world and been giving unlimited funds to add to a team that were fully capable of winning the league. I am sure if Fergie went to the biggest clubs in the world and was given blank cheques he could win the league.

I am not saying Capellos jobs have been easy, but its far easier to build on something (with unlimited funds) than start from scratch and keep winning at the same place consistently, always avoiding complacency. Building 3 new teams during his time, nurturing players and turning raw talent into world class players.

Yeah he played great football at Milan, but he had already inherited a team that already played good football. Since Milan he has played some of the most boring football, despite having the funds to buy pretty much any player he wants.

Capello has a fantastic record, but I wouldnt want him at united and I dont think most top clubs would want him as a manager. At least boring sucessful managers like Benitez and Mourinho have/had the excuse of limited funds and limited players.

I have to call you out on that sentence in bold. At the end of last season and for half of this season, Madrid was most definitely *not* a team capable of winning any title, let alone the league

bluenine wrote:It is, my friend... more than you think... Owen, Emre, Martins, Davids, Duff, Dyer.... seems like NU's buying power is pretty similar to Roma's during those days... many of the names you mentioned weren't that big when they joined Roma... you are probably confused between Roma and Lazio at that time...

Anyways, that arguement does not matter... coz Capello's Roma beat off at least 4 more expensively built teams to win the scudetto (Milan, Juve, Inter, Lazio).... Just like the newly acquired and rich NU will have to do next season in EPL to win...

And as for Capello's Milan... the Serie A then was very different from any league now... imagine if most of the best players play in 1 league - it was something like there were 8 teams like the top 4 in EPL right now... dominating that kinda league was something extra special.

Cesc wrote:

bluenine wrote:I guess it depends on person to person... IMO SAF had 20 years in one club to build and succeed. Capello, he has achieved instant success in ALL his clubs! Even a "small" club like Roma - thats like Newcastle winning EPL next year!

But thats a ridiculous accusation. IMO Capello's Milan played better football than SAF's United has ever played in 20 years!

But its not is it..

Newcastle cannot go out and buy Gabriel Batistuta's, Walter Samuel's, Cafu's, Vicenzo Montella's, Emerson's, Antonio Cassano's and inherit a Francesco Totti type player. Fabio Capello was given blank cheques to build that team.

Batman wrote:I agree with Cesc, that Roma team had some really good players.

bluenine wrote:Like I said, batman, there still were at least 4 teams which were more expensive with bigger players (and more money) than that Roma in the league that season.... so whats the point??

Batman wrote:I agree with Cesc, that Roma team had some really good players.

Cesc wrote:

bluenine wrote:Like I said, batman, there still were at least 4 teams which were more expensive with bigger players (and more money) than that Roma in the league that season.... so whats the point??

Batman wrote:I agree with Cesc, that Roma team had some really good players.

But that Roma side had the potential to win the Championship, agreed? Yes certain clubs spent more than that Roma team but I don't think the divide was that big between Roma, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan and Parma in terms of squad costs at that time. They all spent obsene money on big players.

I'm not taking anything away from Fabio Capello because he is a manager I deeply respect, but it seems another one of your off the mark comparsions has got us English annoyed again!

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Also the point is Capello, much as I hate him, wins in the 1st season.

It took Ferguson 7 years !!!

Do you think Capello would have been given 7 years ?

bluenine wrote:Like I said, batman, there still were at least 4 teams which were more expensive with bigger players (and more money) than that Roma in the league that season.... so whats the point??

Batman wrote:I agree with Cesc, that Roma team had some really good players.

Batman wrote:
As a Inter fan you should know that money doesn't always equal success..

Cesc wrote:
I'm not taking anything away from Fabio Capello because he is a manager I deeply respect, but it seems another one of your off the mark comparsions has got us English annoyed again!

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Also the point is Capello, much as I hate him, wins in the 1st season.

It took Ferguson 7 years !!!

Do you think Capello would have been given 7 years ?

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:i will say that capello has gotten us the title and i thank him but the only thing he has done is inject passion and spirit in this team. now these are good quality but im sure he at the start of the season was thinking this was going to be a defending team that counter attacked.
but the thing is that despite the fact that we have played very defensive our defence has been bad and our organisation in generel has been bad. offensively we were Cr@p for most of the season and in the last 10 games we found out how to get create chancs. the thing is that he hasnt built a foundation that he is normally good at and he has been making the same mistakes over and over again. like today he starts emerson who he then subs at halftime. Blunine i gues we can say that capello can inject whatever a team needs to get the title. and he deserves praise because everybody and i mean everybody was after capello even the king called calderon and asked when he was going to fire him!

about his past record i dont even think it is a competition with SAF. the italian league was a monster from what i know. and that he can change teams in one season i have alot of respect for.

Controversy wrote:

Cesc wrote:
I'm not taking anything away from Fabio Capello because he is a manager I deeply respect, but it seems another one of your off the mark comparsions has got us English annoyed again!

I'd like to correct that.

They've annoyed English based Arsenal and United fans, fans of managers who were given far more respect over time for there achievements than they've deserved.

Hopefully we'll get loony presidents one day to remove ourselves of this long term baggage which crops up every time.