AC Milan vs. Arsenal Discussion Thread

Senor Woody wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:P.S. You support far too many teams and like far too many players EM . I hadn't seen it working that way before but it is squashing the whole thread rightwards!

gloryhunter

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Gattuso is $h!t. Couldn't even do what he is famed for yesterday - foul a lot.

shazlx wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Gattuso is $h!t. Couldn't even do what he is famed for yesterday - foul a lot.

shazlx wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Gattuso is $h!t. Couldn't even do what he is famed for yesterday - foul a lot.

Adebayor is $h!t, couldnt even score from 1 yard out

BoBo Vieri wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Gattuso is $h!t. Couldn't even do what he is famed for yesterday - foul a lot.

Adebayor is $h!t, couldnt even score from 1 yard out

shazlx wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Gattuso is $h!t. Couldn't even do what he is famed for yesterday - foul a lot.

That's always difficult v us. We're/the ball is already away before they can foul us. We get ridiculously little set pieces in danger areas as a result of our game. Would like a little bit more match smartness. Wait for a foul in a good position...

Tweedle wrote:Yeh, as it stands I think RVP is actually supposed to be back but in reality I expect he'll have another hick up.

Would be fantastic if he was back though as he's the type of player that could create that bit of magic to get us through. Assuming he's injured I expect out lineup to be:

-------------Almunia--------------

Sagna---Senderos---Gallas---Clichy

------------Flamenbauer-----------

Hleb-----------Cesc---------Rosicky

--------Eduardo----Adebayor--------

Is RVP is back, assume Eduardo dropped.

Is what i would also play but there's no way Wenger is playing that away. He will surely( yes i'm 100% convinced) play ade on his own upfront. Think the only change we'll see from yesterday's line up is rosicky(if fit) coming in for Edu.

Wenger is becoming a negative coach.

De Guzman wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Gattuso is $h!t. Couldn't even do what he is famed for yesterday - foul a lot.

That's always difficult v us. We're/the ball is already away before they can foul us. We get ridiculously little set pieces in danger areas as a result of our game. Would like a little bit more match smartness. Wait for a foul in a good position...

with RVP back milan will have to watch out not to fould us a lot.

AR-V-PEE will make things much more interesting. With him Arsenal could snatch a 1-1 there. Which is more then enough!

Saturday, 01 March 2008
Premier League
Arsenal v Aston Villa
Serie A
Milan v Lazio

Tuesday, 04 March 2008
UEFA Champions League
AC Milan v Arsenal, (agg 0-0), R1, L2

Both hard games for the two teams and they both need the points to continue the momentum in their respective leagues. Can't see Arsenal resting many players. Don't know about Milan though.

Hlebtastic wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Yeh, as it stands I think RVP is actually supposed to be back but in reality I expect he'll have another hick up.

Would be fantastic if he was back though as he's the type of player that could create that bit of magic to get us through. Assuming he's injured I expect out lineup to be:

-------------Almunia--------------

Sagna---Senderos---Gallas---Clichy

------------Flamenbauer-----------

Hleb-----------Cesc---------Rosicky

--------Eduardo----Adebayor--------

Is RVP is back, assume Eduardo dropped.

Is what i would also play but there's no way Wenger is playing that away. He will surely( yes i'm 100% convinced) play ade on his own upfront. Think the only change we'll see from yesterday's line up is rosicky(if fit) coming in for Edu.

Wenger is becoming a negative coach.

It's not a negative 4-5-1 though. It's very much attack minded although I do agree 4-4-2 is still best.

If God create bigger whining fans than Arsenal fans, he is keeping to himself, They are all in full force in boards crying how Pato is such a c*nt because he pushed Sagna, can you believe ? He pushed a player with his bare hands in a football game. He didn’t dive, he didn’t violently tackled, he no even spit a player, he pushed him. I am so glad United AND Spurs kicked their asses.

Now if only the Duck score against them I will be on cloud 9.
Also the Italians played a very nice fair game, yet I still see the Dirty Italians comments

Normally its ‘Mad Jens’ doing the pushing around, don’t think any of the Arsenal contingent on here mentioned the Pato-Sagna affair.

Matthaei wrote:Normally its ‘Mad Jens’ doing the pushing around, don’t think any of the Arsenal contingent on here mentioned the Pato-Sagna affair.

Nahh, the Arsenal fans here are very nice, is when I go to 606 that it drives me crazy.

Juligen wrote:

Matthaei wrote:Normally its ‘Mad Jens’ doing the pushing around, don’t think any of the Arsenal contingent on here mentioned the Pato-Sagna affair.

Nahh, the Arsenal fans here are very nice, is when I go to 606 that it drives me crazy.

You shouldn't take anything on 606 seriously! I think some fans are just a bit frustrated that we weren't able to capitalise on our pressure yesterday and so lash out a bit. Plus some people seem to get into the mindset that Italian teams will be particularly cynical and 'professional.' I think Gattuso was the first to go down when there was absolutely nothing wrong with him and didn't even go off for treatment and people got a bit wound up by it. When Nesta and Pato both went down in innocuous circumstances it appeared to some that they were being cynical, even though both went off straight away.
I haven't seen any replays of the whole game but Pato's push seemed a bit unnecessary and it taps into this mindset. It's all a fuss over nothing, you shouldn't take it to heart. He had a reasonable game and showed a lot of maturity in his play leading the line on his own.

To be fair to Pato Juligen, he looked complete class. SHort of the miraculous, i think theres very few more impressive champions league debuts. Held the ball up well, good use of it, good tocuhes, skillful, and holy f@ck is he fast.

Hlebadinho wrote:To be fair to Pato Juligen, he looked complete class. SHort of the miraculous, i think theres very few more impressive champions league debuts. Held the ball up well, good use of it, good tocuhes, skillful, and holy f@ck is he fast.

Yeahh, I think I am being too over sensitive. And the push was pure and simple stupid; I was embarrassed when I saw it. But he did play all right, if only he had got more service. Pirlo and Kaka were petty average.

The thing I like the most in his is his speed, it just crushes you.

Arsenal surprised me a lot, great football and unbelievable defense work. Flamini was fucking amazing, what a player he is this season. Lets hope for a great game and goals in this next game.

Sheffield gunner wrote:

Juligen wrote:

Matthaei wrote:Normally its ‘Mad Jens’ doing the pushing around, don’t think any of the Arsenal contingent on here mentioned the Pato-Sagna affair.

Nahh, the Arsenal fans here are very nice, is when I go to 606 that it drives me crazy.

You shouldn't take anything on 606 seriously! I think some fans are just a bit frustrated that we weren't able to capitalise on our pressure yesterday and so lash out a bit. Plus some people seem to get into the mindset that Italian teams will be particularly cynical and 'professional.' I think Gattuso was the first to go down when there was absolutely nothing wrong with him and didn't even go off for treatment and people got a bit wound up by it. When Nesta and Pato both went down in innocuous circumstances it appeared to some that they were being cynical, even though both went off straight away.
I haven't seen any replays of the whole game but Pato's push seemed a bit unnecessary and it taps into this mindset. It's all a fuss over nothing, you shouldn't take it to heart. He had a reasonable game and showed a lot of maturity in his play leading the line on his own.

I hate to say it, but Milan played like the more sporting of the two sides yesterday... I remember twice when an Arsenal player was down, Milan just kicked the ball out immediately even tho the Arsenal players were not expecting it. But when Gattuso stayed down, Arsenal players played on till a few Milan players had their hands in the air, and even after putting the ball out an arsenal player ran over to Gattuso accusingly telling him to get up... Even the english commentators sounded embaressed and apologetic...

But these were small things, overall both teams played a good sporting game... I can't see how either set of fans can complain.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:I am not worried at all now.

We defended every Arsenal attack fairly easily, and only once did my heart skip a beat (Adebayor chance).

Arsenal were very predictable, and they were at home too. Fabregas seems to have no shot, and Adebayor has no accuracy (Nesta and Maldini marked him quite easily).

The way Arsenal fans (except Tweeds) made it out to be was that Milan were going to be run ragged. I am sorry, on the balance of play yesterday, I thought we were always in control (though we didn't play that well ourselves).

Nesta and Maldini were immense!

Its strange, but Tweedy's views have become more balanced of late... the dude has grown up!

I agree completely. I had no problem with the behaviour of either team (Eboue's dive aside). The Gattuso incident was a little annoying because it was blatantly obvious he was fine, and he was right by the touchline so could have got off the pitch if he needed to. But it was a very small issue, and I think it was Gallas who did exactly the same thing later in the game for us. It happens all the time in matches. The game was played in a good spirit, as I've said, anyone complaining about antics from Milan is just showing sour grapes that we couldn't make anything of our pressure in the second half.

shazlx wrote:

Calidad wrote:I think Milan will need to play a 2nd striker at the San Siro. Kaka & Pato up against 6 Arsenal players each time obviously doesn't work.

Who do you drop though? Pirlo had a shocker, but he probably won't play that bad again. Seedorf probably.

Seedorf is Milan's best player and you want to drop him when they need a goal . Pirlo gets away with being Cr@p too often and still has his reputation intact. He will do nothing in the return game other than maybe a great free kick. You can sig that if I'm wrong.

You haven't seen too many Milan games this season, have you?? Pirlo has easily been Milan's best player this season... more than Kaka, definately more than Seedorf. You need to give Hleb and Wenger a lot of credit for marking him out of the game yesterday.

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Although I think that both will play, since Ancelotti would only use 2 strikers if Ronaldo was fit.

@De Guzman: Do you write in arsenal-mania by any chance (clockwork orange)?

Agree. Somehow Gattuso has been pretty mediocre this season. Milan would actually to better if they play Emerson+Ambrosini. The Puma seems to be rediscovering his pre-Madrid form...

bluenine wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Calidad wrote:I think Milan will need to play a 2nd striker at the San Siro. Kaka & Pato up against 6 Arsenal players each time obviously doesn't work.

Who do you drop though? Pirlo had a shocker, but he probably won't play that bad again. Seedorf probably.

Seedorf is Milan's best player and you want to drop him when they need a goal . Pirlo gets away with being Cr@p too often and still has his reputation intact. He will do nothing in the return game other than maybe a great free kick. You can sig that if I'm wrong.

You haven't seen too many Milan games this season, have you?? Pirlo has easily been Milan's best player this season... more than Kaka, definately more than Seedorf. You need to give Hleb and Wenger a lot of credit for marking him out of the game yesterday.

It was pretty obvious from early on that Hleb had been told to get close to Pirlo and hustle him and allow Flamini to deal with Kaka further up the pitch. Looks like Wenger did his research.
I know lots of people would have wanted us to play 4-4-2 but then, it would have been impossible to stop Pirlo and Kaka playing to the same extent. Can't win them all.

60/40 in Milan's favour. But i'll think we'll do it.

Shaz - you may not rate Pirlo but Fabregash obviously does - hence he and Hleb were knocking his calf after he played every pass in the 1st half and was it Fabregas who came down on Pirlo's foot after he played a left footed pass in the 2nd half ?

Easy could have been a broken metatarsal.

Pirlo played arguably the two best passes of the game - the one to Kaka when opened you up and the one down the left flank that gave Jankulovski a fantastic opportunity to cross (which he fucked up).

Yet Fabregash can win rave reviews when all of his passes are on the floor, no more than ten yards and mainly sideways !

Pirlo is going to look bad compared with his peers (Cambiasso, Alonso etc) at times but he goes for the killer ball more often than these players so its to be expected.

Gattuso would have spotted some of the challenges and don't be suprised if the wee Spaniard takes a kicking in the 2nd leg - he had no worries about 6ft 2in ronaldo so little Cesc may get knocked off his fucking perch in the 2nd leg

bluenine wrote:

Red n' Black wrote:If a DM is going out then it should be Gattuso and not Ambro the monster, who has been a lot better than him throughout the season.

Although I think that both will play, since Ancelotti would only use 2 strikers if Ronaldo was fit.

@De Guzman: Do you write in arsenal-mania by any chance (clockwork orange)?

Agree. Somehow Gattuso has been pretty mediocre this season. Milan would actually to better if they play Emerson+Ambrosini. The Puma seems to be rediscovering his pre-Madrid form...

The Puma? Sloth is probably more apt.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Shaz - you may not rate Pirlo but Fabregash obviously does - hence he and Hleb were knocking his calf after he played every pass in the 1st half and was it Fabregas who came down on Pirlo's foot after he played a left footed pass in the 2nd half ?

This is why I don't rate Pirlo. He doesn't have the skill or strength to get away from theses tackles like Makalele or Vieira yet he still needs another midfielder to do the harassing for him. In fact he needed two DMs yesterday for him to cope yet he still failed to dominate.

If he could play like yesterday whilst accommodated two proper b2b Ms or even two AMs then I would rate him higher. Look how ineffective Mlan's play is when he is marked out of a game - the two DM's can't do anything. If he had tow CMs then it would alleviate pressure from him to do all the playmaking whilst the others midfielders would also allow him more space as they would take the markers from him.

I rate his talent - superb technically and great passing range - but I don't rate him as a CM.

Yet Fabregash can win rave reviews when all of his passes are on the floor, no more than ten yards and mainly sideways !

It is much harder to do then you make out. Controlling the midfield with intricate pass and move runs when you have to go through Kaka, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Pirlo and Seedorf. I very much Kaka ( or Pirlo) could do it, Kaka would probably try to kick and run through the midfield .

Pirlo is going to look bad compared with his peers (Cambiasso, Alonso etc) at times but he goes for the killer ball more often than these players so its to be expected.

I don't like Cambiasso or Alonso but they are rated higher by some (don't know who) because they can do the defensive duties without requiring another purely destructive DM a a body guard.

Gattuso would have spotted some of the challenges and don't be surprised if the wee Spaniard takes a kicking in the 2nd leg - he had no worries about 6ft 2in ronaldo so little Cesc may get knocked off his fucking perch in the 2nd leg

Don't be surprised if Gattuso is chasing the ball all game from one player to the next - we aren't ManU, our players don't hold on to the ball waiting to be tackled - only Hleb with try to dribble close to makers and his skill level is significantly higher than Cronaldo. Don't be surprised to see Gattuso sent off.

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Shaz - you may not rate Pirlo but Fabregash obviously does - hence he and Hleb were knocking his calf after he played every pass in the 1st half and was it Fabregas who came down on Pirlo's foot after he played a left footed pass in the 2nd half ?

This is why I don't rate Pirlo. He doesn't have the skill or strength to get away from theses tackles like Makalele or Vieira yet he still needs another midfielder to do the harassing for him. In fact he needed two DMs yesterday for him to cope yet he still failed to dominate.

If he could play like yesterday whilst accommodated two proper b2b Ms or even two AMs then I would rate him higher. Look how ineffective Mlan's play is when he is marked out of a game - the two DM's can't do anything. If he had tow CMs then it would alleviate pressure from him to do all the playmaking whilst the others midfielders would also allow him more space as they would take the markers from him.

I rate his talent - superb technically and great passing range - but I don't rate him as a CM.

Yet Fabregash can win rave reviews when all of his passes are on the floor, no more than ten yards and mainly sideways !

It is much harder to do then you make out. Controlling the midfield with intricate pass and move runs when you have to go through Kaka, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Pirlo and Seedorf. I very much Kaka ( or Pirlo) could do it, Kaka would probably try to kick and run through the midfield .

Pirlo is going to look bad compared with his peers (Cambiasso, Alonso etc) at times but he goes for the killer ball more often than these players so its to be expected.

I don't like Cambiasso or Alonso but they are rated higher by some (don't know who) because they can do the defensive duties without requiring another purely destructive DM a a body guard.

Gattuso would have spotted some of the challenges and don't be surprised if the wee Spaniard takes a kicking in the 2nd leg - he had no worries about 6ft 2in ronaldo so little Cesc may get knocked off his fucking perch in the 2nd leg

Don't be surprised if Gattuso is chasing the ball all game from one player to the next - we aren't ManU, our players don't hold on to the ball waiting to be tackled - only Hleb with try to dribble close to makers and his skill level is significantly higher than Cronaldo. Don't be surprised to see Gattuso sent off.

Why are you comparing him with Viera/Makelele. Those 2 are essentially defensive midfielders whereas Pirlo is a deep lying playmaker. His job is not to defend. And Pirlo does have the skill to get away from tackles. You misunderstood Pierre's point - he was saying Hleb was performing little fouls on Pirlo after he had playe the ball. The defensive midfielders aren't there soley for Pirlo. Bear in mind that Ancelotti plays with 2 DM's more often these days because of the lack of good strikers at his disposal.

The fact that Milans play is ineffective when Pirlo is marked out of the game shows how important he is.

Alonso can do defensive duties? CL final 2005, first half...

Gattuso is playing poorly this season, wouldnt be surprised if that did happen. Ambrosini will do a good job though.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

shazlx wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Why are you comparing him with Viera/Makelele. Those 2 are essentially defensive midfielders whereas Pirlo is a deep lying playmaker.

Because they can both start attacks from deep and the can both pass nearly as well as Pirlo (right foot only). Yes I have seen these both make raking passing and midfield splitting passes regularly.

His job is not to defend. And Pirlo does have the skill to get away from tackles. You misunderstood Pierre's point - he was saying Hleb was performing little fouls on Pirlo after he had playe the ball.

I know his job isn't to defend - that's why I don't rate him. Player who play deep should defend. If you are a DPL you should still defend and pass when you have the ball so you don't have to have another pure DM along side you. Basically I don't rate any DLP who doesn't have the ability to defend without having a dedicated DM a long side him unless he has the skill of Hleb and the passing of Pirlo (so only one half then).

Anyhow, what does little niggly fouls after the ball has gone got to do with the being able to hold the ball and pass it. If its a foul the ref will most likely give it.

The fact that Milans play is ineffective when Pirlo is marked out of the game shows how important he is.

I know how important he is but the fact he can be marked out of a game so easily should show how weak he is. Also how much it hurts the team that he requires a pure destroyer who has 0 attacking abilities that could help the team whilst his partner is being marked.

Alonso can do defensive duties? CL final 2005, first half...

I don't actually rate Alonso any more than Pirlo (some others do -apparently) , but that was just one game - Sheva missed an point blank 1on1 with Dudek.

Gattuso is playing poorly this season, wouldnt be surprised if that did happen. Ambrosini will do a good job though.

I rate Ambrosini higher anyway - as footballers, I prefer humans over dogs .

shazlx wrote:I know his job isn't to defend - that's why I don't rate him. Player who play deep should defend. If you are a DPL you should still defend and pass when you have the ball so you don't have to have another pure DM along side you. Basically I don't rate any DLP who doesn't have the ability to defend without having a dedicated DM a long side him unless he has the skill of Hleb and the passing of Pirlo (so only one half then).

This is some bizarre stuff. Ancelotti deploys two DMs and sometimes just one, so that Pirlo can dictate the play. So why does Pirlo need to perform tasks which Gattuso/Ambro take care of?

And this whole Pirlo cannot defend is not accurate. He is not a great tackler, but he often wins the ball. A good coach lets a player express himself. He doesn't sacrifice artistry for menial tasks.

shazlx wrote:We aren't Man U

I agree with this. Man U can actually score at home, take their chances, and juggle while they are doing it.

What yesterday showed was that Arsenal are wet behind the ears and bloated on self-importance.