The Kuyt MotM day 9/6: Romania v France and Holland v Italy!

Afellay wrote:Fey did you post your team ratings?

ITALY

Buffon 6 – Partly to blame for first goal after a poor punch. Made one outstanding save from van Nistelrooy at 0-2. Did not communicate with his defenders as much as he should have.

Panucci 5.5 – Below par. Questionable whether he has the pace to play at right back in an international tournament. Did better when switched to the centre.

Barzagli 4 – Has never impressed without Cannavaro to hold his hand and this was proved tonight after a shocking performance. Certainly not the next in a long-line of great Italian defenders judged on this.

Materazzi 3.5 – Confirmed his dreadful club season with a stinker of a game. Second to every ball, positionally all over the place, and no help at all to Barzagli. If it was up to me, he would never play for Italy again.

Zambrotta 6 – The best of a bad bunch, although improved greatly as the game went on, going on one excellent run in the second half down the left.

Gattuso 6 – Battled as usual in midfield, and slowly took charge as the game wore on, but as proven for Milan this season his levels have quite clearly dropped from the World Cup two years ago.

Pirlo 7 – Unsurprisingly Italy’s best midfielder. Brilliant through-ball to put Grosso through on goal, while he would have scored with a magnificent free-kick, had it not been for Van der Sar’s miraculous save.

Ambrosini 5 – Baffling decision by Donadoni to start him ahead of De Rossi, and he clearly was not in the same league as Sneijder and Van der Vaart. Missed a chance late on.

Camoranesi 4 – Anonymous on the right hand side of the trident. Quite why Donadoni waited until the 75th minute to take him off is another mystery.

Di Natale 6 – Far from Italy’s worst player. Di Natale worked hard, and had a few efforts, including one sweet volley that would have gone in had it not been straight at Van der Sar.

Toni 5 – Another disappointment. Looked strangely tired after a long campaign. Missed one glorious one-on-one opportunity.

Clayton Bigsby™ wrote:I agree Cali, Holland's CB's looked quite Vunerable to me, the full-backs were awesome though.

Toni won loads of 50-50 battles, but no Midfielder came to support (Mauro).

Clayton Bigsby™ wrote:I agree Cali, Holland's CB's looked quite Vunerable to me, the full-backs were awesome though.

Toni won loads of 50-50 battles, but no Midfielder came to support (Mauro).

Don Leo wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Don Leo wrote:Yep, was dead sure it was offside myself (used to win rule-book quizez at my old footy club), lost a bet on it last night...

Really wonder about whether the refs were lucky or applied the rule.

I was watching with my dad, he *immediately* made the right call with the right explanation....I hadn't even noticed Panucci lying there, but I knew of this rule.

for me it was the other way around I noticed Panucci lying, but thought he would be treated the same as an attacking player out of the field.

2 of the guys I was watching it with work as a footy trainer. 1 at a high level, 1 at an average club. Only the one from the average club knew the rule. Of all the other knowledgable footy fans in the room (about 15). Nobody knew the rule was like this.

bluenine wrote:

Don Leo wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Don Leo wrote:Yep, was dead sure it was offside myself (used to win rule-book quizez at my old footy club), lost a bet on it last night...

Really wonder about whether the refs were lucky or applied the rule.

I was watching with my dad, he *immediately* made the right call with the right explanation....I hadn't even noticed Panucci lying there, but I knew of this rule.

for me it was the other way around I noticed Panucci lying, but thought he would be treated the same as an attacking player out of the field.

2 of the guys I was watching it with work as a footy trainer. 1 at a high level, 1 at an average club. Only the one from the average club knew the rule. Of all the other knowledgable footy fans in the room (about 15). Nobody knew the rule was like this.

You are interpreting the rule wrong - it was offside. Panucci was not "willingly" out of the pitch, he was lying on the ground and did not get up.

But it was a tough call and it would be silly to blame the refree.

bluenine wrote:

Don Leo wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Don Leo wrote:Yep, was dead sure it was offside myself (used to win rule-book quizez at my old footy club), lost a bet on it last night...

Really wonder about whether the refs were lucky or applied the rule.

I was watching with my dad, he *immediately* made the right call with the right explanation....I hadn't even noticed Panucci lying there, but I knew of this rule.

for me it was the other way around I noticed Panucci lying, but thought he would be treated the same as an attacking player out of the field.

2 of the guys I was watching it with work as a footy trainer. 1 at a high level, 1 at an average club. Only the one from the average club knew the rule. Of all the other knowledgable footy fans in the room (about 15). Nobody knew the rule was like this.

You are interpreting the rule wrong - it was offside. Panucci was not "willingly" out of the pitch, he was lying on the ground and did not get up.

But it was a tough call and it would be silly to blame the refree.

bluenine wrote:

Don Leo wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Don Leo wrote:Yep, was dead sure it was offside myself (used to win rule-book quizez at my old footy club), lost a bet on it last night...

Really wonder about whether the refs were lucky or applied the rule.

I was watching with my dad, he *immediately* made the right call with the right explanation....I hadn't even noticed Panucci lying there, but I knew of this rule.

for me it was the other way around I noticed Panucci lying, but thought he would be treated the same as an attacking player out of the field.

2 of the guys I was watching it with work as a footy trainer. 1 at a high level, 1 at an average club. Only the one from the average club knew the rule. Of all the other knowledgable footy fans in the room (about 15). Nobody knew the rule was like this.

You are interpreting the rule wrong - it was offside. Panucci was not "willingly" out of the pitch, he was lying on the ground and did not get up.

But it was a tough call and it would be silly to blame the refree.

bluenine wrote:
You are interpreting the rule wrong - it was offside. Panucci was not "willingly" out of the pitch, he was lying on the ground and did not get up.

But it was a tough call and it would be silly to blame the refree.

Don Leo wrote:

bluenine wrote:

Don Leo wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

Don Leo wrote:Yep, was dead sure it was offside myself (used to win rule-book quizez at my old footy club), lost a bet on it last night...

Really wonder about whether the refs were lucky or applied the rule.

I was watching with my dad, he *immediately* made the right call with the right explanation....I hadn't even noticed Panucci lying there, but I knew of this rule.

for me it was the other way around I noticed Panucci lying, but thought he would be treated the same as an attacking player out of the field.

2 of the guys I was watching it with work as a footy trainer. 1 at a high level, 1 at an average club. Only the one from the average club knew the rule. Of all the other knowledgable footy fans in the room (about 15). Nobody knew the rule was like this.

You are interpreting the rule wrong - it was offside. Panucci was not "willingly" out of the pitch, he was lying on the ground and did not get up.

But it was a tough call and it would be silly to blame the refree.

The UEFA came out with an official statement, saying it's like I say (think it's a stupid rule though).

whether it's willingly or not does NOT matter (for a defender)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2008/7445476.stm

bluenine wrote:In this case, the ref got it wrong.[/size].

Axeslammer wrote:

bluenine wrote:In this case, the ref got it wrong.[/size].

Typical Italian cheating sore losers : it's 100% defined by the rules

What's your view on Ruud getting a penalty ? Was exactly the same situation as Grosso against Australia....

I'm guessing you think you deserved the penalty and we don't

110% wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

bluenine wrote:In this case, the ref got it wrong.[/size].

Typical Italian cheating sore losers : it's 100% defined by the rules

What's your view on Ruud getting a penalty ? Was exactly the same situation as Grosso against Australia....

I'm guessing you think you deserved the penalty and we don't

What penalty?

I am afraid that there were no replays either at half-time or at the end of the game concerning any kind of penalty. The whole 15 mins of half-time was devoted to how rvn was off-side

COTR wrote:

110% wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

bluenine wrote:In this case, the ref got it wrong.[/size].

Typical Italian cheating sore losers : it's 100% defined by the rules

What's your view on Ruud getting a penalty ? Was exactly the same situation as Grosso against Australia....

I'm guessing you think you deserved the penalty and we don't

What penalty?

I am afraid that there were no replays either at half-time or at the end of the game concerning any kind of penalty. The whole 15 mins of half-time was devoted to how rvn was off-side

It wasn't a penalty anyway. Buffon pulled out of the challenge and Ruud lost his balance for the tap in. It was almost as if he was trying to induce the contact but it never came so he didn't know what to do

COTR wrote:

110% wrote:

Axeslammer wrote:

bluenine wrote:In this case, the ref got it wrong.[/size].

Typical Italian cheating sore losers : it's 100% defined by the rules

What's your view on Ruud getting a penalty ? Was exactly the same situation as Grosso against Australia....

I'm guessing you think you deserved the penalty and we don't

What penalty?

I am afraid that there were no replays either at half-time or at the end of the game concerning any kind of penalty. The whole 15 mins of half-time was devoted to how rvn was off-side

It wasn't a penalty anyway. Buffon pulled out of the challenge and Ruud lost his balance for the tap in. It was almost as if he was trying to induce the contact but it never came so he didn't know what to do

COTR wrote:
It wasn't a penalty anyway. Buffon pulled out of the challenge and Ruud lost his balance for the tap in. It was almost as if he was trying to induce the contact but it never came so he didn't know what to do

Axeslammer wrote:

COTR wrote:
It wasn't a penalty anyway. Buffon pulled out of the challenge and Ruud lost his balance for the tap in. It was almost as if he was trying to induce the contact but it never came so he didn't know what to do

Buffon still obstructed Ruud's natural path, without him getting the ball.

(I don't really think it's a penalty, but it's *exactly* the same situation as the Grosso dive against Australia....all the Italy fans claim that was a legitimate penalty, so they have show true colours here)

Axeslammer wrote:

COTR wrote:
It wasn't a penalty anyway. Buffon pulled out of the challenge and Ruud lost his balance for the tap in. It was almost as if he was trying to induce the contact but it never came so he didn't know what to do

Buffon still obstructed Ruud's natural path, without him getting the ball.

(I don't really think it's a penalty, but it's *exactly* the same situation as the Grosso dive against Australia....all the Italy fans claim that was a legitimate penalty, so they have show true colours here)

Murray wrote:If you read the offside law on the Fifa website it says nothing about defenders being off the pitch, so it looks like Uefa are making up the rules as they go along just to protect their stupid linesman.

COTR wrote:

Murray wrote:If you read the offside law on the Fifa website it says nothing about defenders being off the pitch, so it looks like Uefa are making up the rules as they go along just to protect their stupid linesman.

Funny that more or less every official commenting on the matter knows this rule then murray


law 11.11 in the rulebook - under advice to referees. "A defender who leaves the field during the course of play and does not immediately return must still be considered in determining where the second to last defender is for the purpose of judging which attackers are in an offside position," he says. "Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his or her off-field position.

Murray wrote:

COTR wrote:

Murray wrote:If you read the offside law on the Fifa website it says nothing about defenders being off the pitch, so it looks like Uefa are making up the rules as they go along just to protect their stupid linesman.

Funny that more or less every official commenting on the matter knows this rule then murray


law 11.11 in the rulebook - under advice to referees. "A defender who leaves the field during the course of play and does not immediately return must still be considered in determining where the second to last defender is for the purpose of judging which attackers are in an offside position," he says. "Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his or her off-field position.

Where did you find this rule, it's not on the fifa website