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    The Kuyt MotM day 9/6: Romania v France and Holland v Italy!

    Murray
    Murray


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    Post by Murray Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:15 pm

    COTR wrote:
    Murray wrote:
    COTR wrote:
    Murray wrote:If you read the offside law on the Fifa website it says nothing about defenders being off the pitch, so it looks like Uefa are making up the rules as they go along just to protect their stupid linesman.
    Funny that more or less every official commenting on the matter knows this rule then murray


    law 11.11 in the rulebook - under advice to referees. "A defender who leaves the field during the course of play and does not immediately return must still be considered in determining where the second to last defender is for the purpose of judging which attackers are in an offside position," he says. "Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his or her off-field position.

    Where did you find this rule, it's not on the fifa website


    The rule is all over the internet this morning murray. I'm surprised you missed it

    If you read the fifa website, there is nothing in the offside law about players being off the pitch.
    SuperMario
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    Post by SuperMario Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:25 pm

    from uefa.com:

    UEFA supports Dutch goal decision
    by Mark Chaplin from Basel



    UEFA has emphasised that the goal scored by Netherlands striker Ruud van Nistelrooy in last night's UEFA EURO 2008™ match against Italy in Berne was valid, and that referee Peter Fröjdfeldt acted correctly in awarding it.

    Not offside
    UEFA General Secretary David Taylor was reacting to claims from some quarters that Van Nistelrooy was standing in an offside position when he scored the first of the Netherlands' goals in their 3-0 win. "I would like to take the opportunity to explain and emphasise that the goal was correctly awarded by the referee team," he said. "I think there's a lack of understanding among the general football public, and I think it's understandable because this was an unusual situation. The player was not offside, because, in addition to the Italian goalkeeper, there was another Italian player in front of the goalscorer. Even though that other Italian player at the time had actually fallen off the pitch, his position was still relevant for the purposes of the offside law."

    Still involved
    The starting point, said Mr Taylor, is the Laws of the Game – Law 11 – which deal with offside, whereby a player is in an offside position if he is nearer to his opponents' goalline than both the ball and the second-last opponent. "There need to be two defenders involved," the UEFA General Secretary said. "If you think back to the situation, the first is the goalkeeper, and the second is the defender who, because of his momentum, actually had left the field of play. But this defender was still deemed to be part of the game. Therefore he is taken into consideration as one of the last two opponents. As a result, Ruud van Nistelrooy was not nearer to the opponents' goal than the second-last defender and, therefore, could not be in an offside position.

    Rare incident
    "This is a widely-known interpretation of the offside law among referees that is not generally known by the wider football public," he continued. "Incidents like this are very unusual – although I'm informed that there was an incident like this about a month ago in a Swiss Super League match between FC Sion and FC Basel 1893. [It was] initially suggested that this [goal] was a mistake by the referee in terms of the offside law – the commentator later apologised publicly, as he didn't realise that this was the correct application of the law."

    Law applied
    Mr Taylor concluded: "So let's be clear – the referees' team applied the law in the correct manner. If we did not have this interpretation of the player being off the pitch then what could happen is that the defending team could use the tactic of stepping off the pitch deliberately to play players offside, and that clearly is unacceptable. The most simple and practical interpretation of the law in this instance is the one that is adopted by referees throughout the world – that is that unless you have permission from the referee to be off the pitch, you are deemed to be on it and deemed to be part of the game. That is why the Italian defender, even though his momentum had taken him off the pitch, was still deemed to be part of the game, and therefore the attacking player put the ball into the net, and it was a valid goal. The law in this place was applied absolutely correctly."


    http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/news/kind=1/newsid=711341.html#uefa+supports+dutch+goal+decision
    Ricardo Jol
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:55 pm

    i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:58 pm

    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?
    Ricardo Jol
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:04 pm

    kas wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?

    I cannot believe he oversaw that. Everyone saw it was miles offside if panucci wasn't there...
    Super Progress
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    Post by Super Progress Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:07 pm

    RicardoJol wrote:
    kas wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?

    I cannot believe he oversaw that. Everyone saw it was miles offside if panucci wasn't there...
    Agree with you. I cant remember ever seeing a lines man make such a bad offside call allthough i do remember a Bayern-Real game with a tottaly obvious offside that cost a goal.
    the problem with the goal as i see it as that the player was injuried or at least not able to enter the field which is why i think it shouldnt have counted.
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:39 pm

    RicardoJol wrote:
    kas wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?

    I cannot believe he oversaw that. Everyone saw it was miles offside if panucci wasn't there...

    My father and the Italian tv commentator both immediately saw that it wasn't offside, so I think the linesman knew exactly what he was doing.
    Ricardo Jol
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:45 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:
    kas wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?

    I cannot believe he oversaw that. Everyone saw it was miles offside if panucci wasn't there...

    My father and the Italian tv commentator both immediately saw that it wasn't offside, so I think the linesman knew exactly what he was doing.

    Both deserve a special <Ale> Because they are one of the few real experts about this FIFA rule!!
    avatar
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    Post by 110% Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:50 pm

    Axeslammer wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:
    kas wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?

    I cannot believe he oversaw that. Everyone saw it was miles offside if panucci wasn't there...

    My father and the Italian tv commentator both immediately saw that it wasn't offside, so I think the linesman knew exactly what he was doing.

    which italian channel were you watching??

    on Rai 1 they dedicated the half-time to showing it over and over as being off-side, with views from many "experts" Suspect
    Ricardo Jol
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:52 pm

    @110

    today they showed the goal with Italian comment on Dutch telly and the expert said immediatly "Panucci ruled out off side..."
    !
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:20 pm

    Just seen some comments from the BBC of the Holland game on Dutch tv....That ginger scot saying we played 433 and that arsenal fag saying RVN was the best...

    Laughing

    And they do it with YOUR money Englanders!

    Think about it!
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:23 pm

    Fey are you sure, he didn’t say Holland was playing 433, he said Holland are familiar with the 433 which the Italians were playing .. yeah Dixon saying RVN was his opinion, doesn’t mean it’s what the general audience that watched the game believe, some would say it was Sneijder others would say Gio etc
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:31 pm

    Well I was reading the subs, and thats how they translated it.
    Pierre Littbarski
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:37 pm

    Ruud got 8/10 in The Sun lol!
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:47 pm

    The Kuyt MotM day 9/6: Romania v France and Holland v Italy! - Page 25 ANP-7659318

    I wish I could find a picture where Engelaar lays his hand down on Midgets head! Its just too funny!

    At least you can see the difference on this picture between Engelaar and Midget.
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:47 pm

    RicardoJol wrote:
    Axeslammer wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:
    kas wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:i really had no clue it was a rule... It was brave of the assistent referee to allow the goal because if had waved his flag nobody would have had any problems with that...

    But that's what I (and probably many others) am wondering...did he really know the rule, or was it a mistake from him and he has got very very lucky?

    I cannot believe he oversaw that. Everyone saw it was miles offside if panucci wasn't there...

    My father and the Italian tv commentator both immediately saw that it wasn't offside, so I think the linesman knew exactly what he was doing.

    Both deserve a special <Ale> Because they are one of the few real experts about this FIFA rule!!

    My dad hasn't let me forget all day that for once in his life he made a better call than I did Erm
    Machiavel
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    Post by Machiavel Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:48 pm

    Kuyts hair makes him appear taller than Sneijder.
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    Post by 110% Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:12 am

    RicardoJol wrote:@110

    today they showed the goal with Italian comment on Dutch telly and the expert said immediatly "Panucci ruled out off side..."
    !

    if you say "today" for when you posted (last night) it looks like they might have showed some edited highlights programme (after they had checked the rules). As I clearly remember the commentators, the half-time analysts and 10 of my italian mates all moaning about it for ages.

    edit: Not sure if maybe it was "lost in translation" but in fact the italians would never use a phrase like "ruled out off-side" they'd say something like "rvn non era fuori giocco": rvn was not offside (due to panucci), or they'd say panucci made rvn's play valid or something like that.

    Or they'd use the phrase "Juventare": to cheat Wink
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    Post by 110% Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:22 am

    Afellay wrote:Kuyts hair makes him appear taller than Sneijder.

    you do seem to have a team of midgets Wink

    so you might have trouble against a team who are set-piece specialists
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:04 am

    110% wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:@110

    today they showed the goal with Italian comment on Dutch telly and the expert said immediatly "Panucci ruled out off side..."
    !

    if you say "today" for when you posted (last night) it looks like they might have showed some edited highlights programme (after they had checked the rules). As I clearly remember the commentators, the half-time analysts and 10 of my italian mates all moaning about it for ages.

    edit: Not sure if maybe it was "lost in translation" but in fact the italians would never use a phrase like "ruled out off-side" they'd say something like "rvn non era fuori giocco": rvn was not offside (due to panucci), or they'd say panucci made rvn's play valid or something like that.

    Or they'd use the phrase "Juventare": to cheat Wink

    This is it :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEfrNWeu3T4
    Ricardo Jol
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:23 am

    110% wrote:
    RicardoJol wrote:@110

    today they showed the goal with Italian comment on Dutch telly and the expert said immediatly "Panucci ruled out off side..."
    !

    if you say "today" for when you posted (last night) it looks like they might have showed some edited highlights programme (after they had checked the rules). As I clearly remember the commentators, the half-time analysts and 10 of my italian mates all moaning about it for ages.

    edit: Not sure if maybe it was "lost in translation" but in fact the italians would never use a phrase like "ruled out off-side" they'd say something like "rvn non era fuori giocco": rvn was not offside (due to panucci), or they'd say panucci made rvn's play valid or something like that.

    Or they'd use the phrase "Juventare": to cheat Wink

    Sorry about my translation don't try to catch me on that... I don't believe it wasn't a live coverage. It was the Co-Commentator who said it was offside because of Panucci....

    On the set pieces.... In a recent friendly we came 3-0 down to AUSTRIA because they were better in set pieces than us...

    I'm glad we've now Engelaar (1,98m). The only problem is he never headed a ball in his whole life....scratch Smile


    EDIT: Axe has the answer in the post before this one cheers
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    Post by 110% Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:26 am

    ok cheers. Wasn't the main italian channel, Rai which is where we would watch it inside italy, maybe some stream in china or us.

    Actually there was something lost in the translation. The main commentator gets a bit agitated about the goal and mentions the time, all the players surrounding rvn etc, the second one then explains that "I can explain in front of me the italian bench are all complaining to the linesman, but he has indicated panucci has played rvn onside", then the first commentator says, "where is he?", the 2nd one says "he remained down on the ground" then the 1st says: "But is is outside the pitch", then the second commentator replies "But that is the rule that the linesman has applied". So the 2nd commentator doesn't say whether it was right or wrong, but that the linesman had applied a rule that panucci had played rvn onside.


    SO THE LINESMAN GOT IT ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!
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    Post by 110% Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:29 am

    no problem ricardo, just translated it above

    and it seems to prove that they didn;t come up with the rule later on but that the linesman got it absolutely correct.

    3 cheers for the linesman

    cheers cheers cheers
    Ricardo Jol
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    Post by Ricardo Jol Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:52 am

    @110%

    Thanks for that. You also implicitly answered the question of kas. The linesman knew exactly what he was doing!

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