Premier League Discussion 1st/2nd/3rd November 2008.

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:

L.r.d wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:5 of our 9 pts have come against the top 4

Which shows you need more muscle men

What do you mean?

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@ Everyone.

If you had been told exactly 7 days ago that Harry Redknapp would be our manager and we would get 7 points from our next 3 games....what would you have said?

I would say "Redknapp is a mistake long term, but he will have a honeymoon period that will keep you up". This doesn't surprise me at all TS.

Kimbo's right...this is Benitez (and Mourinho). Take the lead, "kill" the game.

Sometimes it works (win at Stamford Bridge). Sometimes it doesn't.

To be fair, Spurs played really well from what I caught. I think they played superbly towards the end. Lennon looked dangerous, and Bentley had a fine strike which lead up to the goal.

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:

L.r.d wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:5 of our 9 pts have come against the top 4

Which shows you need more muscle men

What do you mean?

-------------------------------------------------------
@ Everyone.

If you had been told exactly 7 days ago that Harry Redknapp would be our manager and we would get 7 points from our next 3 games....what would you have said?

JOL OUT

L.r.d wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:

L.r.d wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:5 of our 9 pts have come against the top 4

Which shows you need more muscle men

What do you mean?

-------------------------------------------------------
@ Everyone.

If you had been told exactly 7 days ago that Harry Redknapp would be our manager and we would get 7 points from our next 3 games....what would you have said?

Redknapp is the only surprise. Tottenham were always capable of beating Liverpool or getting a point or more at arsenal.

I mean it shows Tottenham can play football and pass it around with the best. But when it comes to maybe the other side against more pyshical teams they struggle a little more. So maybe a few tougher players around.

Agree with everything. Was mental enough to think Spurs could nick something away to Chelsea, let alone in any of these easier fixtures.

Fey wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:

L.r.d wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:5 of our 9 pts have come against the top 4

Which shows you need more muscle men

What do you mean?

-------------------------------------------------------
@ Everyone.

If you had been told exactly 7 days ago that Harry Redknapp would be our manager and we would get 7 points from our next 3 games....what would you have said?

JOL OUT

Can't wait for MOTD tonight - I missed seeing Keane sent to the stands.

Wow, just got back from White Hart Lane,

what a night.

We rode our luck at times, Liverpool hit the post/crossbar on 3 occasions (although once was more down to our comical defending then their attacking prowess), but it was brilliant to see us going at them and not let our heads go down, despite Liverpool having our number for the whole of the first half and the first 15 minutes of the second.

We still need to pass the ball a lot better. But credit to Redknapp for changing what was a poor first half performance with bringing on Pav and Hutton, then Lennon to inject some pace near the end.

As for Liverpool- solid, organised, but I think they could have had more of a go at us in the first half and it would have been game over with a second. They looked happy to sit back though and play like they did against Chelsea, which makes sense, but on this occasion the wet weather and general unpredictability of this Spurs side was their undoing.

Still, came away from the game thinking Liverpool CAN be champions this season, with a little luck and also letting loose and closing games like this out.

In actual fact, it looked like they gave us more respect than we probably deserved. I, along with everyone around me, thought the worst 30 minutes in - we looked clueless against Liverpool's organisation.

But in the end, what a result.

Bottom beat top. Great advert for English football, even if at times the football wasn't the best

Otto's Olympic Dream wrote:Wow, just got back from White Hart Lane,

what a night.

We rode our luck at times, Liverpool hit the post/crossbar on 3 occasions (although once was more down to our comical defending then their attacking prowess), but it was brilliant to see us going at them and not let our heads go down, despite Liverpool having our number for the whole of the first half and the first 15 minutes of the second.

We still need to pass the ball a lot better. But credit to Redknapp for changing what was a poor first half performance with bringing on Pav and Hutton, then Lennon to inject some pace near the end.

As for Liverpool- solid, organised, but I think they could have had more of a go at us in the first half and it would have been game over with a second. They looked happy to sit back though and play like they did against Chelsea, which makes sense, but on this occasion the wet weather and general unpredictability of this Spurs side was their undoing.

Still, came away from the game thinking Liverpool CAN be champions this season, with a little luck and also letting loose and closing games like this out.

In actual fact, it looked like they gave us more respect than we probably deserved. I, along with everyone around me, thought the worst 30 minutes in - we looked clueless against Liverpool's organisation.

But in the end, what a result.

Bottom beat top. Great advert for English football, even if at times the football wasn't the best

Now, I don't want to be accused of hyping, but Pavlyuchenko's goal had a Berbatov-esque effortlessness about it.

Berbs is obviously a hard act to follow, but as Pav settles in, He'll show that he's a very talented player in his own right.

Should have gotten Samaras

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:

Otto's Olympic Dream wrote:Wow, just got back from White Hart Lane,

what a night.

We rode our luck at times, Liverpool hit the post/crossbar on 3 occasions (although once was more down to our comical defending then their attacking prowess), but it was brilliant to see us going at them and not let our heads go down, despite Liverpool having our number for the whole of the first half and the first 15 minutes of the second.

We still need to pass the ball a lot better. But credit to Redknapp for changing what was a poor first half performance with bringing on Pav and Hutton, then Lennon to inject some pace near the end.

As for Liverpool- solid, organised, but I think they could have had more of a go at us in the first half and it would have been game over with a second. They looked happy to sit back though and play like they did against Chelsea, which makes sense, but on this occasion the wet weather and general unpredictability of this Spurs side was their undoing.

Still, came away from the game thinking Liverpool CAN be champions this season, with a little luck and also letting loose and closing games like this out.

In actual fact, it looked like they gave us more respect than we probably deserved. I, along with everyone around me, thought the worst 30 minutes in - we looked clueless against Liverpool's organisation.

But in the end, what a result.

Bottom beat top. Great advert for English football, even if at times the football wasn't the best

Now, I don't want to be accused of hyping, but Pavlyuchenko's goal had a Berbatov-esque effortlessness about it.

Berbs is obviously a hard act to follow, but as Pav settles in, He'll show that he's a very talented player in his own right.

He's fantastically good at holding the ball up, a la Berbatov, and has that typical Eastern European tidy technique. He's looking more like the player we paid so much money for, more direct than Berbatov, and like Berbs he's no billy whiz. But he makes intelligent runs and there is no doubt his introduction in the second half made a big difference. PRoblem was obviously Modric's influence waned as a result, but against Liverpool they have such quality in midfield, especially deep lying holding midfielders in Alonso and Masch that Modric found no space in the hole like he had done against Arsenal and Bolton, so it was good for tactically to bring on Pav and play it more direct.

Fair play again to Bentley- a mixed performance with a number of occasions losing the ball in important areas of the pith, but he has that ability to pull off a moment of genius and HArry knows it, and he did it again with that swivel and shot which led to Pav's winner.

HArry just knows how to get the best out of the players, its already clear, he's no tactical mug - I was very impressed with the second half after the turgid first.

How bad have Cesc been this season ? Reasons surely lacking a proper DM cant be the reason for sloppy touches poor passing.

We should've won and Liverpool are utter utter c**ts.

That is all.

Just finished watching re-run of Portsmouth vs Wigan, what an intense and insane game. One of the most open games I've recently watched (it's worth a mention, that there is a more and more open games around).

I know he's playing for years now, but it still shocks me how good Titus Bramble is when he has a rare "on" days, and how bad he is, when he's "off".

I still think Wigan can finish in top of the table, they are IMHO very solid team. Hopefully this win will lift them up...

Another thing is how good it is to see Saha fit and scoring.

kas wrote:Kimbo's right...this is Benitez (and Mourinho). Take the lead, "kill" the game.

Sometimes it works (win at Stamford Bridge). Sometimes it doesn't.

It's easy to come out with this nonsense when a game like yesterday occurs when even the spurs fans are admitting they mugged us. We also had far better chances than chelsea to add a second goal last week

Sadly reputations stick and people will always revert back to them no matter how much evidence is against them. What more could rafa have done yesterday ? We pummelled spurs in the second half before the own goal. If that was not trying to kill the game then I don't know what is.

The opposite is actually occuring this season with rafa being far more offensive and confident in the team and as a result we are leaving more space and conceding more goals so what you and kimmy are saying is actually utter bullshit


No offence

I'm surprised there isn't already a feminist outrage about Paul Ince's comments after the game:

Blackburn manager Paul Ince:

"The sending-off just ruins the game. After the penalty for us, the referee gave West Brom everything.

"Every free-kick just went straight to West Brom so, whether he felt he made a bad decision, I don't know. Everything seemed to go their way.

"The game is hard enough at the moment. The Premier League is a physical league, it is fast and furious, and people are going to make tackles.

"Give red cards for dangerous and malicious tackles where the studs are up, fair enough. It is not a game for women."

COTR wrote:

kas wrote:Kimbo's right...this is Benitez (and Mourinho). Take the lead, "kill" the game.

Sometimes it works (win at Stamford Bridge). Sometimes it doesn't.

It's easy to come out with this nonsense when a game like yesterday occurs when even the spurs fans are admitting they mugged us. We also had far better chances than chelsea to add a second goal last week

Sadly reputations stick and people will always revert back to them no matter how much evidence is against them. What more could rafa have done yesterday ? We pummelled spurs in the second half before the own goal. If that was not trying to kill the game then I don't know what is.

The opposite is actually occuring this season with rafa being far more offensive and confident in the team and as a result we are leaving more space and conceding more goals so what you and kimmy are saying is actually utter bullshit


No offence

The FIRST half coater, the FIRST half, Pool just sat back for no good reason. Nobody is talking about the 2nd half. 2-0 at half time and it would've been over, but Rafa didn't think about that. This gets brought up because it is painfully obvious when you think about it.

Kimbo wrote:

COTR wrote:

kas wrote:Kimbo's right...this is Benitez (and Mourinho). Take the lead, "kill" the game.

Sometimes it works (win at Stamford Bridge). Sometimes it doesn't.

It's easy to come out with this nonsense when a game like yesterday occurs when even the spurs fans are admitting they mugged us. We also had far better chances than chelsea to add a second goal last week

Sadly reputations stick and people will always revert back to them no matter how much evidence is against them. What more could rafa have done yesterday ? We pummelled spurs in the second half before the own goal. If that was not trying to kill the game then I don't know what is.

The opposite is actually occuring this season with rafa being far more offensive and confident in the team and as a result we are leaving more space and conceding more goals so what you and kimmy are saying is actually utter bullshit


No offence

The FIRST half coater, the FIRST half, Pool just sat back for no good reason. Nobody is talking about the 2nd half. 2-0 at half time and it would've been over, but Rafa didn't think about that. This gets brought up because it is painfully obvious when you think about it.

I was at WHL last night, and in the first half it was at times painfully obvious looking across the pitch to see Liverpool sitting back with 10 men behind the ball, happy to let us play out most of the time with the ball with our back 4.

When they got possession it wasn't built upon with much urgency or attacking mentality like, for example, Man United or Arsenal or Chelsea seem to play it this season. Rafa's tactics were to mirror their control of Chelsea, and it worked for the first half in terms of killing the game, but I think we were there fore the taking in the first half - the crowd was quiet and players looked drained of belief.

The second half Liverpool came out more, and we rode our luck no doubt with them hitting the post twice. But to be honest, Liverpool have had their fair share of luck this season, whilst we had none for most of the Ramos' reign.

We were definitely back in it though in the second part of the second half, and played some good stuff, especially when Lennon cam on and gave is forward impetus.

Liverpool are still capable of winning the league no doubt, but Rafa has got to be less cautious. Why he gave us the kind of respect he gave to Chelsea is beyond me.

You lost to a moment of magic again from Bentley, who is starting to prove his worth for us.

S4P - 13 wrote:

Bill Oddie wrote:

L.r.d wrote:I think Hull are in for the clubs biggest ever defeat. Maybe 10-0 or something like that

That's just a stupid thing to say. Hull had a lot of luck this season, but I really doubt they will lose 10-0.

I see you're meeting lerd for the first time. Just let the comment fly over your head.

Ferguson said: "I feel a bit low. We should have won by 10 or 11

That's what you said, and that's what Ferguson said.

The reality was 4-3.

This is the same master-of-mind-games Ferguson who blames the referee every match for Rooney going mental. So don't take his words *too* seriously

L.r.d wrote:

S4P - 13 wrote:

Bill Oddie wrote:

L.r.d wrote:I think Hull are in for the clubs biggest ever defeat. Maybe 10-0 or something like that

That's just a stupid thing to say. Hull had a lot of luck this season, but I really doubt they will lose 10-0.

I see you're meeting lerd for the first time. Just let the comment fly over your head.

Ferguson said: "I feel a bit low. We should have won by 10 or 11

Yet you only beat them 4-3, after the "nothing special" Chelsea hammered them on their own patch in midweek.

IMO the F.A. should come out and publicly support Mike Jones in the next couple of days.

Mowbray and Ince are a disgrace.

I can accept that people will question refs when they've had genuine mares but to give a ref that much stick for 2 decisions that are absolutely 100% correct to anyone with an ounce of sense and half-decent vision is ridiculous.

You both failed to do your jobs properly and should accept responsiblity for that rather than creating a fuss over nothing to deflect attention away from your team's failings.

How were those decisions "absolutely 100% correct"

50-50 I'd give you, but nailed-on certainties? Disagree.

I don't get that. How can you complain when the ref was correct?

It's like being marked down for saying 2+2 = 4.

kas wrote:How were those decisions "absolutely 100% correct"

50-50 I'd give you, but nailed-on certainties? Disagree.

Pulling an opponents shirt is a foul. It was in the area. Penalty.

Deliberate handball is a yellow card. Second yellow. Red card.

There is no grey area here.

kas wrote:How were those decisions "absolutely 100% correct"

50-50 I'd give you, but nailed-on certainties? Disagree.

The 1st one he stretched the shirt out about a yard from his back

And the 2nd one he clearly put his arm right out to try and control the ball.

But then why do we hear arguments like "that was soft", or "he has a case", or "yeah sometimes it would be given".

The ref was far too rigid in applying the rules, as I posted yesterday.

The handball was near the halfway line...if it was a 1st yellow, ok, no problem IMO. But for 2nd yellow, then it's harsh.

Same with the penalty. In the Everton game, Fellaini was fouled, but the penalty was not given. In this game, the ref gave it, even though the striker was in the corner of the box with his back to goal, and the ball in front of him. No goal threat.
(incidentally, did the defender get a yellow? I don't remember if he did or not)

If all refs are going to go strictly by the rulebook and say "any foul in the penalty box is a penalty regardless of where the ball is or whether it's a goalscoring opportunity", then that's acceptable. If some refs are flexible, some are rigid, then it's a mess...and that's what causes managers to be outraged.

kas wrote:...if it was a 1st yellow, ok, no problem IMO. But for 2nd yellow, then it's harsh.

Should there be a difference ?

borocooper wrote:

Hip Hip Heurelho wrote:

borocooper wrote:Good riddance to Ramos Comolli Ramos

Ramos couldnt get these same players to fight, Harry has done it straight away..Ramos wouldnt have had Bentley playing..he's contributed loads..Ramos probably wouldnt have played Fat Tom either, and you needed someone like him in midfield.

Harry

Boro, does your Ramos hate have anything to do with the result of a UEFA Cup final where Ramos outwitted your team and your master-tactician Steve McClaren?