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    Kaka open to City move !

    avatar
    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:11 pm

    Six wrote:
    Calidad wrote:And if this move goes through it will demonstrate just how much of a plague upon football the EPL has manifested itself into.

    I've never been a fan of splashing large amounts of money on players (anyone who doesn't think money buys trophies is deluded) but the EPL is becoming a foreigners play thing. Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Aston Villa, West Ham...none of their owners are football fans...City will be building a team of mercenaries. It's disgusting really.

    Does it really matter if the clubs are owned by foriegners compared to say.. bankrolled by the government and royal family?

    ok

    Not sure why it's important for them to be fans of the club. Most of them still need the clubs to perform well to make a profit.

    Thought Citeh are an exception with the wealth they have.
    Super Progress
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    Post by Super Progress Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:18 pm

    Parks lives wrote:
    Six wrote:
    Calidad wrote:And if this move goes through it will demonstrate just how much of a plague upon football the EPL has manifested itself into.

    I've never been a fan of splashing large amounts of money on players (anyone who doesn't think money buys trophies is deluded) but the EPL is becoming a foreigners play thing. Utd, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Aston Villa, West Ham...none of their owners are football fans...City will be building a team of mercenaries. It's disgusting really.

    Does it really matter if the clubs are owned by foriegners compared to say.. bankrolled by the government and royal family?

    ok

    Not sure why it's important for them to be fans of the club. Most of them still need the clubs to perform well to make a profit.
    Thought Citeh are an exception with the wealth they have.
    That part is true but you could argue that you don't need any players from the same nation as your team since they just have to get the club to play well so it doesn't really matter. I don't agree with either way of thinking.
    christmasborocooper
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    Post by christmasborocooper Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:02 pm

    The HuddFather™️ wrote:
    debaser wrote:
    Hlebagone wrote:
    Sheffield gunner wrote:This better not lead to Darius Vassell being forced to take a place on the bench. He's far too good a player not to be starting! Mad

    I'm coming around to this idea a bit more. Firstly, it strengthens one of Spurs' rivals down at the bottom, and secondly there is so much comic potential here. If any club is capable of shooting themselves in the foot with this much money it is surely Man City - it just seems to be an inherent part of the club's mentality.

    I'm just worried that Kaka's runs from deep will eat up the space that Vassel works in. Can Vassel and Kaka function together? I'm not sure to be honest.
    Aw. Everyone's so mean to Vassell. When he had pace and played for Villa he was alright!

    Aye, I don't get why he's become such a joke figure - remember that fantastic scissor kick vs. Holland on his England debut?

    It's because he's absolutely fucking terrible.
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:09 pm

    No, Alan Smith is terrible. Vassel is just in the wrong sport.
    christmasborocooper
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    Post by christmasborocooper Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:10 pm

    Drug pushing isnt a sport.
    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:13 pm

    There's still hope for it to be included in 2012.

    They've got the fund the Olympics somehow.
    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:47 pm

    Batman wrote:City need to get a better kit for a player like Kaka

    Kaka open to City move ! - Page 10 Man-city-home-07

    Thats not our current kit ! <Ale>
    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:48 pm

    Jaime wrote:They could play 4-1-4-1. But Robinho won't like playing on the left.


    --------------Def. midfielder

    SWP-----Kaka----Ireland----Robinho

    ----------------Striker

    We would play same system as now..


    --------------------Kompany------------Def mid or Ireland----------------------

    SWP---------------------------Kaka---------------------------------------Robinho

    -------------------------------Striker-----------------------------------------------

    <Ale>
    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:53 pm

    God there is a lot of negitive comments on here..what are peoples problems with City ? why do you all like to put us down ? whats wrong with being ambitious? or are you just all shitting your pants ?

    Below is a great article from Martin Samuel, i think a lot of you should read it....

    Here is what we need to remember about football: it is meant to be fun. It is meant to entertain. It is meant to brighten your day. Watching it should be a positive experience.

    When you see a 10-year-old standing next to his dad screaming abuse at some anonymous team bus, with its blacked out windows and barely-glimpsed silhouettes inside, football has failed. When you see a 10-year-old trying to do a Cristiano Ronaldo step-over, football has won. So, Kaka to Manchester City. What's not to like?
    But, ye gods, there are some miserable people out there. The death of football, one bloke called it. An impossibly rich man attempts to spend £100million of his personal fortune to bring a truly great footballer into our game in a way that opens up the domestic competition, and this is a bad thing?


    This is not Kaka to Manchester United or Kaka to Liverpool, in a way that would have everybody moping around thinking the title was sewn up for the next five years. This is Kaka, possibly, to Manchester City, a move that may one day inspire a further challenge to the domination by the elite four of English football. At the very least it is another great player turning out in a league already blessed by a few.

    Yet still a puritanical determination to resist pleasure continues. We have become spoiled by our easy access to greatness, by the fact we can turn on the television and view the finest players from around Europe every week. We have forgotten what a thrill, what a privilege it is to then see those same players in the flesh.

    If Kaka comes to Manchester, English football will need only Lionel Messi for the full set. This is a unique moment in the history of our game and how stereotypical of us to find a reason to carp. Kaka, Ronaldo and Fernando Torres may be coming to town. Oh, woe.


    Previous generations understood. Before television sated our interest, if Tom Finney was playing down the road, black and white men in hats paid to see him. Now we are too blasé, too knowing, too fond of pursing our lips in disapproval and debating the morality rather than revelling in the magic of the show.

    We raise ungrounded fears and make specious criticisms. Yes, £100m could build a hospital, but it is not the job of the royal family of Abu Dhabi to build hospitals in Great Britain. If your hospital is rubbish, has run out of beds or is riddled with bugs, your issue is not with Manchester City but central government, via your local health authority. And, believe me, central government wastes money on projects with the potential to bring considerably less pleasure to the wider public than taking Brazil's best player on a nationwide tour, funded by outside money.

    The other accusation is that paying £100m for Kaka cripples football's business, that it artificially inflates prices and impacts on the smaller clubs.

    No chance: City were quoted a fee of £90million for Valencia's David Villa.
    Not true. The rest of the market, the mid-range, the bottom end has nothing to do with this specific transfer. It is a one-off. It is unique. No club will be asked, or will pay, at the going rate for Kaka because no club is in the same position as Manchester City.

    For instance, earlier in the transfer window, City asked Valencia about David Villa, the Spain striker and wide midfielder, and were quoted a price of £90m. This was way above his perceived value, which, in recent seasons, has fluctuated between £20m and £30m, because City's cash capacity is regarded as exceptional.

    The deal then died as City's owners felt they were being treated like fools. They had the money - as the cash upfront offer for Kaka confirms - but believed Valencia were taking advantage. No other club has been required to negotiate at that level for Villa, so the inference is clear.

    If Arsenal came in for him tomorrow the price would not suddenly rise to over £100m to achieve parity with Kaka, because Valencia would know he could not be sold to any other club at that price.

    There would be a much reduced compromise figure, ensuring a deal progressed. The terms of Kaka's potential transfer are unique because no great player in his right mind would seek to join Manchester City, and no major club would sell a talent like Kaka, unless extraordinary circumstances dictated. So City have made the circumstances extraordinary.

    Is there a down side? Yes, but not one that impacts on the neutral. There is a distinct feeling that Manchester City are attempting to put on the roof before putting up the walls and that is no way to run a successful football club.

    Attempting to marry Kaka and Robinho to a defence that cannot cope with Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup is clearly a plan fraught with danger. Central defenders and a holding midfield player are still needed, so City followers have every reason to lurch from delightful anticipation to disquiet.

    So a sleepless night for them, and for Mark Hughes, the manager. For the rest of us, what do we care? Knock yourself out, Sheik. Let's see what happens. At least this is going to be worth watching, not another tedious investigation into how many mediocre, hard-working players it takes to stifle Arsenal to secure an away point.


    To hear some critics, that is all football should aspire to these days. Good housekeeping. Safety. As if a healthy bank statement could be paraded around town on an open top bus.

    'Football,' said Danny Blanchflower, 'is about glory. It is about doing things with style and a flourish, not waiting for the other lot to die of boredom.'

    Except these days we have been trained to think like accountants, to value 15th place above a trip to Wembley, as if anybody remembers those seasons when each match blends into one long tiresome scrap for safe ground.

    By contrast, bidding £100m for Kaka - even if, as is likely, he stays at AC Milan - reminds us that this game is meant to be amusing, exuberant and dizzying. It is meant to distract from drudgery rather than add to it, to pursue excellence and adventure rather than settle for what is anodyne and conservative.

    And while it will be a pity if, after Martin O'Neill has so painstakingly grown an organic Aston Villa side, he risks being overwhelmed by what might be termed a GM club, this battle represents the other fascination of sport.

    There is no guarantee that Manchester City's way will work and, right now, given a choice between what he has at Villa and Kaka, Robinho and what Mark Hughes has at City, O'Neill would probably take his balanced, settled squad every time.

    What might happen next is half the fun. And the rest? Well, have you ever seen this guy play?
    Fey
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    Post by Fey Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:03 am

    Messi-----------------Kaka-----------Robinho

    --------------------Samaras---------------

    cheers
    Six
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    Post by Six Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 am

    Incredibly easy to rebuke that whole article. Too much money means higher stakes, means that basically every club with a slight chance of relegation will take no risks at all on the pitch, which means that even though we have some big name players they have to deal with 2 journeyman midfielders kicking them every weekend (if they even manage to get a game, *coughtevezcough*) and won't be able to play their real game, which means that the football in the EPL will become less interesting and then even less so when Man City buy all the best players from the other teams and creates its own superleague consisting of its 1st team playing its reserves, youths and ladies teams.


    Last edited by Six on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
    Tom
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    Post by Tom Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:06 am

    i think the problem is paying 100 million for a player. that is probably where it all starts. and i know it's ironic from a chelsea fan, but 100 million? thats fuucking insane!
    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:11 am

    Ballack wrote:i think the problem is paying 100 million for a player. that is probably where it all starts. and i know it's ironic from a chelsea fan, but 100 million? thats fuucking insane!

    Yeah its a lot but if we can afford it and we want him. I dont see what problem people have with it ? unless its that they are worried about us becoming a world class team and breaking the top 4 etc. It might cause inflation but that the same time, Chelsea caused the inflation of prices and nobody puts them down like they are doing with us. The things that gets me is that people are so quick to say it wont happen (im not saying it will) and try and mock us for our ambition.

    But fuck it if people want to hate us and mock us then go for it cos i just see it as a sign that people are worried and they should be cos we are serious about becoming a top class team and have financial back on a scale the world has never seen.
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:40 am

    This move has become a distinct possibility. However, the only thing stopping it is Manchester City's current status. They won't get into the CL this year, and they will struggle to get in next year (transition, team building etc.). Considering Kaka' is not playing CL this year with Milan, that will be almost 3 years without the CL, by which time Kaka' will be 30.

    The latest news coming out of Italy is that Kaka' has turned down City again, even though his dad wants him to consider it. I suspect he fears being in the Championship next season or not playing in the CL. At this stage, it doesn't make sense for Kaka' to move from a footballing perspective.
    Sgoater1
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    Post by Sgoater1 Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:51 am

    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:This move has become a distinct possibility. However, the only thing stopping it is Manchester City's current status. They won't get into the CL this year, and they will struggle to get in next year (transition, team building etc.). Considering Kaka' is not playing CL this year with Milan, that will be almost 3 years without the CL, by which time Kaka' will be 30.

    The latest news coming out of Italy is that Kaka' has turned down City again, even though his dad wants him to consider it. I suspect he fears being in the Championship next season or not playing in the CL. At this stage, it doesn't make sense for Kaka' to move from a footballing perspective.

    There is no way we will go down, we are only 3 points off the top half.

    Also its not a given that Milan will be in the Champs leaue next season !

    Still its hard to know what will happen.
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:57 am

    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:This move has become a distinct possibility. However, the only thing stopping it is Manchester City's current status. They won't get into the CL this year, and they will struggle to get in next year (transition, team building etc.). Considering Kaka' is not playing CL this year with Milan, that will be almost 3 years without the CL, by which time Kaka' will be 30.

    The latest news coming out of Italy is that Kaka' has turned down City again, even though his dad wants him to consider it. I suspect he fears being in the Championship next season or not playing in the CL. At this stage, it doesn't make sense for Kaka' to move from a footballing perspective.

    There is no way we will go down, we are only 3 points off the top half.

    Also its not a given that Milan will be in the Champs leaue next season !

    Still its hard to know what will happen.

    Goater that's true, but we have a pretty good chance, while City have virtually no chance to get in.

    Honestly, if you were in the CL, I think everything would be different. In 3-4 years, if you are in the CL, you will acquire players like this no problem. Right now it looks difficult...
    christmasborocooper
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    Post by christmasborocooper Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:21 am

    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Ballack wrote:i think the problem is paying 100 million for a player. that is probably where it all starts. and i know it's ironic from a chelsea fan, but 100 million? thats fuucking insane!

    Yeah its a lot but if we can afford it and we want him. I dont see what problem people have with it ? unless its that they are worried about us becoming a world class team and breaking the top 4 etc. It might cause inflation but that the same time, Chelsea caused the inflation of prices and nobody puts them down like they are doing with us.

    Yeah they did..everyone fucking hated Chelsea when all the spending started. Well, hated them more anyway.
    avatar
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    Post by Guest Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:29 am

    if they are willing to pay this much for kaka who hasn't been great for 3 seasons now, then how much would they pay for the likes of

    Messi
    ronaldo
    villa
    ext

    They can have eto'o for the same about if he doesn't sign a contract over the summer.
    DS
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    Post by DS Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:11 am

    Wasnt it Samuel, that criticized Man Utd for foreign ownership, spending money, simple thing is you are making a structure that is highly unstable, risky and it may not work and it kills the club not only yours but others.
    Deano
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    Post by Deano Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:38 am

    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:This move has become a distinct possibility. However, the only thing stopping it is Manchester City's current status. They won't get into the CL this year, and they will struggle to get in next year (transition, team building etc.). Considering Kaka' is not playing CL this year with Milan, that will be almost 3 years without the CL, by which time Kaka' will be 30.

    The latest news coming out of Italy is that Kaka' has turned down City again, even though his dad wants him to consider it. I suspect he fears being in the Championship next season or not playing in the CL. At this stage, it doesn't make sense for Kaka' to move from a footballing perspective.

    There is no way we will go down, we are only 3 points off the top half.

    Also its not a given that Milan will be in the Champs leaue next season !

    Still its hard to know what will happen.

    That means nothing Goater...you are in a relegation battle, just like we are, and we sit in 10th on 26 points...
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:53 am

    borocooper wrote:
    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Ballack wrote:i think the problem is paying 100 million for a player. that is probably where it all starts. and i know it's ironic from a chelsea fan, but 100 million? thats fuucking insane!

    Yeah its a lot but if we can afford it and we want him. I dont see what problem people have with it ? unless its that they are worried about us becoming a world class team and breaking the top 4 etc. It might cause inflation but that the same time, Chelsea caused the inflation of prices and nobody puts them down like they are doing with us.

    Yeah they did..everyone fucking hated Chelsea when all the spending started. Well, hated them more anyway.
    Weird. Cooper is right again. I was going to say the exact same thing...Chelsea were relentlessly hated once they started on that huge spending spree. If it's more with City, it's only because the figures are even more extreme this time.

    But, of course, I can understand City fan's feelings too. To have to suffer relegation and underachievement for years...and then suddenly getting the chance to sign world stars, seems like payback. Well, I'd be loving it too...and getting pissed off with the haters.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:26 pm

    Messiah wrote:if they are willing to pay this much for kaka who hasn't been great for 3 seasons now, then how much would they pay for the likes of

    Messi
    ronaldo
    villa
    ext

    They can have eto'o for the same about if he doesn't sign a contract over the summer.

    How much is Messi's release fee clause? £150m?
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    Post by bluenine Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:29 pm

    The latest on this is that Milan have agreed to the transfer of Kaka, but will respect the players wishes if he wants to stay.

    The fee in question is estimated to me £100M, not EUR 100M!!!!!!!!

    OMG!!!!
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    Post by christmasborocooper Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:31 pm

    debaser wrote:
    borocooper wrote:
    Sgoater1 wrote:
    Ballack wrote:i think the problem is paying 100 million for a player. that is probably where it all starts. and i know it's ironic from a chelsea fan, but 100 million? thats fuucking insane!

    Yeah its a lot but if we can afford it and we want him. I dont see what problem people have with it ? unless its that they are worried about us becoming a world class team and breaking the top 4 etc. It might cause inflation but that the same time, Chelsea caused the inflation of prices and nobody puts them down like they are doing with us.

    Yeah they did..everyone fucking hated Chelsea when all the spending started. Well, hated them more anyway.
    Weird. Cooper is right again. I was going to say the exact same thing...Chelsea were relentlessly hated once they started on that huge spending spree. If it's more with City, it's only because the figures are even more extreme this time.

    But, of course, I can understand City fan's feelings too. To have to suffer relegation and underachievement for years...and then suddenly getting the chance to sign world stars, seems like payback. Well, I'd be loving it too...and getting pissed off with the haters.

    I might not know much, but I know my memories and such ok
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    Post by DS Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:33 pm

    bluenine wrote:The latest on this is that Milan have agreed to the transfer of Kaka, but will respect the players wishes if he wants to stay.

    The fee in question is estimated to me £100M, not EUR 100M!!!!!!!!

    OMG!!!!
    The pound have fallen.
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    Post by bluenine Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:35 pm

    DS wrote:
    bluenine wrote:The latest on this is that Milan have agreed to the transfer of Kaka, but will respect the players wishes if he wants to stay.

    The fee in question is estimated to me £100M, not EUR 100M!!!!!!!!

    OMG!!!!
    The pound have fallen.
    Its still means EUR 112M!!! And I though EUR 100M would do it...
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    Post by Guest Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:51 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    Messiah wrote:if they are willing to pay this much for kaka who hasn't been great for 3 seasons now, then how much would they pay for the likes of

    Messi
    ronaldo
    villa
    ext

    They can have eto'o for the same about if he doesn't sign a contract over the summer.

    How much is Messi's release fee clause? £150m?

    Yes, but it only applies to spanish clubs.
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    Post by Chap Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:57 pm

    I guess I'm the only non-City fan who thought that Samuel article was excellent.

    We don't know whether this will inflate the market artificially - and there's a reasonable case to say that it won't. And yes 100 million is ridiculous. But frankly so is 30 or 40 million. Transfer fees have been absurd for a while now.

    Six wrote: Incredibly easy to rebuke that whole article. Too much money means higher stakes, means that basically every club with a slight chance of relegation will take no risks at all on the pitch, which means that even though we have some big name players they have to deal with 2 journeyman midfielders kicking them every weekend.


    But surely what the Kaka deal shows is precisely the opposite. When our clubs are playthings for nutty businessmen the emphasis is on showmanship rather than efficiency. Just like Abramovitch seeking to force his team to be stylish on the pitch, but more so. It's a stupid and brilliant moment. And we might get to see Kaka live in league games too.
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    Post by Six Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:08 pm

    Chap wrote:I guess I'm the only non-City fan who thought that Samuel article was excellent.

    We don't know whether this will inflate the market artificially - and there's a reasonable case to say that it won't. And yes 100 million is ridiculous. But frankly so is 30 or 40 million. Transfer fees have been absurd for a while now.

    Six wrote: Incredibly easy to rebuke that whole article. Too much money means higher stakes, means that basically every club with a slight chance of relegation will take no risks at all on the pitch, which means that even though we have some big name players they have to deal with 2 journeyman midfielders kicking them every weekend.


    But surely what the Kaka deal shows is precisely the opposite. When our clubs are playthings for nutty businessmen the emphasis is on showmanship rather than efficiency. Just like Abramovitch seeking to force his team to be stylish on the pitch, but more so. It's a stupid and brilliant moment. And we might get to see Kaka live in league games too.

    Abramovich didn't really succeed did he? I don't even believe that was the case, when you consider that he hired Mourinho it's obvious he wanted trophies first.

    And how many of these owners will there be? Buying Man City is different to buying a club like Blackburn or Middlesbrough which are in small cities that can barely support a PL club as it is. There's not a lot of hope for expansion there. It's still going to be a handful of rich clubs vs a whole bunch of teams who will strive for 0-0s every time. It's hard to produce showmanship football when only one team is really playing.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:27 pm

    I'm not sure that he expected a lack of flamboyancy with Mourinho though. I think he was hoping that Mourinho could have brought both success and flamboyancy

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