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    Home grown players in your first team?

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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:02 am

    saintgoingmarching wrote:A point of order -

    I don't think much to Arsenal or Chelsea, that's true. We all know that Liverpool and Man U get a lot of shit thrown at them, why not the media-friendly London clubs? I'm not bitter, I don't take football seriously enough. But Lehmann is one of the worst cheats in the game, and we all know it. Refute that with evidence by all means, but don't make it some sort of personal vendetta. You lot have spent a page talking about my personality and so on and all that jazz and to be frank, none of it is worth the time I spent reading it, let alone worth responding to. If I'm to be warned about my conduct then every single one of the people who've slated me personally for no good reason on this thread also deserve a warning. I don't insult people (much), I tend to back up what I'm saying and I appreciate a good argument. That's it. If people get offended because I don't like their team and am willing to say so then fuck it, I don't really care. They blatantly insult me just because they disagree and they don't care, so why should I?

    Apart from Southampton I mainly like north-western clubs, because I was born in Lancashire. Liverpool, Man U, Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Everton - I like them all. I make no excuses for my preferences and opinions, I merely tell it how I see it and take an interest in the responses. If you really love your clubs then you won't give a damn what I have to say about them, unless you actually know it to be true.

    ok

    If I'm being honest I think Arsenal fans get off lightly on this board in comparison with Man United and Liverpool fans. I can only imagine what it would be like if we had 2 points after 3 games.

    Maybe its because the media love them, maybe its because as a collection there fans are all pretty good on here. Some of the posters on the old Arsenal 606 board were either complete numpties like the Crippler or some could be very up themself. Tweedle, Shieffield Gunner, Cesc-Fab, Kevin & King Reyes etc are all good guys though.

    Nothing like it would be on 606 now they have no English players in the first XI.
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    Saintsar
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    Post by Saintsar Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:42 am

    Needless to say, I rate the posters here much, much higher than the average 606er, even the Arsenal and Chelsea fans. I wouldn't be here otherwise, I'd post somewhere else.
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    Post by fcb Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:40 am

    Obispo wrote:Arsenal also played some of the most dour, boring football I've ever seen when got to the final yet them against Barca was a "dream attackin final" whereas we were "defensive" in our winning run...


    ...Yes, that still pisses me off.


    It's the perception of both clubs that people have through their overall performances week in week out, and the football philosophy of the two clubs. I don't think you can deny that Liverpool in Houllier's last year and Benitez's first year and a half or so were extremely boring for neutrals to watch.
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:04 am

    @ saints

    Back to the debate....

    you seem to be downplaying Arsenals performances in Europe because Real Madrid and Juventus 'didn't turn up' - I admit they didn't play particularly well but can you not at least entertain the idea that this may have been a consequence f the way that Arsenal was playing?

    At the Bernabau we played fast and energetic football, allowing RM little time and space and pressuring their fullbacks so as to prevent overrunning of the midfield. then Henry scores one of the best goals of last years CL to get us a victory. This was on the back of Real Madrids 12 game unbeaten run in La Liga so it can hardly be claimed they were out of form - the opposite in fact.

    Then at Highbury Real Madrid really went for us but our rear guard held firm and Jens 'Not good enough to be voted best CL goalkeeper' Lehmann pulled off one of the saves of the Champions League.

    Then Juventus at home, we yert again played a high tempo game - Juventus defended well but we didn't allow any of their attacking players any time or space (much like Man Utd do verses us) and eventually broke them down and ran out 2-0 winners.

    At the Stadio della Alpi Juventus did play poorly but pour midfield were instrumental working overtime.

    We are talking about teams that finished first in Serie A and 2nd in La liga FFS - this isn't 'average' European teams.

    And its hardly like we were trounced in the final either!
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    L r d
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:13 pm

    kasnani wrote:
    Obispo wrote:Arsenal also played some of the most dour, boring football I've ever seen when got to the final yet them against Barca was a "dream attackin final" whereas we were "defensive" in our winning run...


    ...Yes, that still pisses me off.


    It's the perception of both clubs that people have through their overall performances week in week out, and the football philosophy of the two clubs. I don't think you can deny that Liverpool in Houllier's last year and Benitez's first year and a half or so were extremely boring for neutrals to watch.

    I disagree with that. In Benitez's first season our league form was so inconsistent that I can imagine "neutral" fans having a field day. Also, our performances in Europe - bar 3 games - were filled with attacking football. More so than Arsenal's catenaccio approach last season.
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    Post by SteveOoO Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:25 pm

    Obispo wrote:
    kasnani wrote:
    Obispo wrote:Arsenal also played some of the most dour, boring football I've ever seen when got to the final yet them against Barca was a "dream attackin final" whereas we were "defensive" in our winning run...


    ...Yes, that still pisses me off.


    It's the perception of both clubs that people have through their overall performances week in week out, and the football philosophy of the two clubs. I don't think you can deny that Liverpool in Houllier's last year and Benitez's first year and a half or so were extremely boring for neutrals to watch.

    I disagree with that. In Benitez's first season our league form was so inconsistent that I can imagine "neutral" fans having a field day. Also, our performances in Europe - bar 3 games - were filled with attacking football. More so than Arsenal's catenaccio approach last season.

    Liverpool were pretty horrific to watch untill the final that year. The final redemed it all completely but up untill that point I was actualy ashamed that Liverpool were the representation of the prem.
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:28 pm

    SteveOoO wrote:
    Obispo wrote:
    kasnani wrote:
    Obispo wrote:Arsenal also played some of the most dour, boring football I've ever seen when got to the final yet them against Barca was a "dream attackin final" whereas we were "defensive" in our winning run...


    ...Yes, that still pisses me off.


    It's the perception of both clubs that people have through their overall performances week in week out, and the football philosophy of the two clubs. I don't think you can deny that Liverpool in Houllier's last year and Benitez's first year and a half or so were extremely boring for neutrals to watch.

    I disagree with that. In Benitez's first season our league form was so inconsistent that I can imagine "neutral" fans having a field day. Also, our performances in Europe - bar 3 games - were filled with attacking football. More so than Arsenal's catenaccio approach last season.

    Liverpool were pretty horrific to watch untill the final that year. The final redemed it all completely but up untill that point I was actualy ashamed that Liverpool were the representation of the prem.

    Yes... Horrific to watch...

    3-1 Olympiakos, two 3-1 victories against Bayer Leverkusen, 2-1 versus Juventus at home, including the goal of the tournament, and of course... 3-3 with AC Milan.

    Better that than 1-0, 2-0, 1-0, 1-2.
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    Post by SteveOoO Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:44 pm

    Obispo wrote:
    SteveOoO wrote:
    Obispo wrote:
    kasnani wrote:
    Obispo wrote:Arsenal also played some of the most dour, boring football I've ever seen when got to the final yet them against Barca was a "dream attackin final" whereas we were "defensive" in our winning run...


    ...Yes, that still pisses me off.


    It's the perception of both clubs that people have through their overall performances week in week out, and the football philosophy of the two clubs. I don't think you can deny that Liverpool in Houllier's last year and Benitez's first year and a half or so were extremely boring for neutrals to watch.

    I disagree with that. In Benitez's first season our league form was so inconsistent that I can imagine "neutral" fans having a field day. Also, our performances in Europe - bar 3 games - were filled with attacking football. More so than Arsenal's catenaccio approach last season.

    Liverpool were pretty horrific to watch untill the final that year. The final redemed it all completely but up untill that point I was actualy ashamed that Liverpool were the representation of the prem.

    Yes... Horrific to watch...

    3-1 Olympiakos, two 3-1 victories against Bayer Leverkusen, 2-1 versus Juventus at home, including the goal of the tournament, and of course... 3-3 with AC Milan.

    Better that than 1-0, 2-0, 1-0, 1-2.

    I already mentioned the final, Olympiakos? come on... the Chelsea game really soured the taste of the rest.
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    Post by Owen Thomas Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:50 pm

    *resists the urge to turn thread into Liverpool ManU argument again Laughing*
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:21 pm

    I looked at some OPTA stats from last season and Liverpool played the long ball more than any other team - EVEN more than Bolton Yikes
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:25 pm

    Tweedledum wrote:I looked at some OPTA stats from last season and Liverpool played the long ball more than any other team - EVEN more than Bolton Yikes

    What are you surprised by that stat? Very Happy
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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:27 pm

    Tweedledum wrote:I looked at some OPTA stats from last season and Liverpool played the long ball more than any other team - EVEN more than Bolton Yikes

    Finnan to Crouch, was probably the most played long pass all season.
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:37 pm

    Of course we did you cretins... Have you not seen the way Alonso passes Doh
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    Parks lives


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    Post by Parks lives Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:38 pm

    Whenever I watched Liverpool, one of the most regular passes was Finnan lumped up to Crouch.
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:40 pm

    Are you sure? It's always Carragher I see doing that. The long ball thing is ridiculous anyways - you can say we play long ball, but really all long ball is is a pass over distance and Alonso does more of them than anyone else.

    We didn't just lump it up to crouch because he has no body strength. We'd have gained sweet FA from it.
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:43 pm

    Well anyway, the point is that Liverpool play lullabye football Wink
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:44 pm

    That comment was as yawn worthy as your football in Europe Razz
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:52 pm

    Not a zzzzzzzzzzzz inducing as your football in the EPL has been for the past 7 years
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:54 pm

    How's that big pitch working out for you?
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    Post by Saintsar Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:01 pm

    Tweedledum wrote:I looked at some OPTA stats from last season and Liverpool played the long ball more than any other team - EVEN more than Bolton Yikes


    Where's the association between long ball and boring football?

    Personally, I've got really bored of Arsenal's short-pass counterattacking (i.e. defensive) style. Maybe a few long balls and a couple of players who can actually head the ball towards goal would make them more interesting...


    Liverpool have more varied, unpredictable play than Arsenal. It's no wonder that they've been more successful over the last two seasons, and are more still more popular nationwide and across the world. Arsenal have one style, and that's it. If it doesn't work then they just keep trying it, which gets boring and repetitive.
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    Post by Parks lives Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:02 pm

    Liverpool are more popular than Arsenal?

    You sure about that Saints?
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:04 pm

    Fair play, you don't have to watch us of you find our style boring.

    Barca bore the hell out of me too. Their fluent attacking football is so last year and to be honest their players swapping positions and creating a lfuid attacking line bores me to tears, that why I don't watch them ok
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    Post by Saintsar Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:10 pm

    Parks Lives wrote:Liverpool are more popular than Arsenal?

    You sure about that Saints?

    I wouldn't have thought that there'd be any dispute about that. In terms of national and global fan base, Liverpool are second only to Manchester United.

    And it's not hard to see why. To see Arsenal play yet another short-pass counterattack down the inside left channel that finishes with Henry rolling it into the bottom right corner of the goal just doesn't get my heart racing because I've seen it a hundred times before. I don't like watching then score carbon copies of goals they scored 5 years ago - it smacks of a team that doesn't believe it has to change its style in order to progress. That's arrogant, and it is getting dull.

    Particularly now mediocre teams have worked out how to play against Arsenal.
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    Post by Parks lives Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:11 pm

    Globally fair enough, however Nationally Arsenal are very popular now, although they may lose points for no Brits.

    The positive media they get is unreal at times as well.
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    Post by Saintsar Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:12 pm

    Tweedledum wrote:Fair play, you don't have to watch us of you find our style boring.

    Barca bore the hell out of me too. Their fluent attacking football is so last year and to be honest their players swapping positions and creating a lfuid attacking line bores me to tears, that why I don't watch them ok


    To borrow a phrase from your own brand of arguing - you are just jealous.

    Oh look, Henry's in the inside left channel again. Who would have thunk it? Oh look, he's finishing across the keeper into the bottom right corner. Wow. Never seen that before. Oh look, Henry's tried to score by taking a quick free kick again. 'Only he would think of that', in the words of Jonathan Pearce.
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    Post by Tweesus Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:14 pm

    @ saints

    Its to do with their success in the 80s actually, not really much to do with Liverpools form now - if you watched their style of play in the early 80s it was actually pretty similar to how Arsenal played in the past 5 years Whistle
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    Post by Rosicky Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:16 pm

    liverpool more succuesful over the last 2 seasons?

    ok theyve won the FA cup and CL

    arsenal have also won the FA cup and reached the final of the CL

    In the League arsenal have finished 2nd and 4th over those 2 years, whereas liverpool have finished 5th and 3rd.
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:17 pm

    Don't forget the super cup and charity shield Razz
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    Post by Saintsar Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:18 pm

    10 years - Wenger came in in 1996


    That's my point - Arsenal are doing more or less what they did back in 96, 97, 98. Man U and Liverpool have adapted their styles immensely, Tottenham and Chelsea have come to the fore, it just doesn't excite me to watch Arsenal when I could predict almost every single pass they'll make.

    Of course, when you went that whole season unbeaten the press were making ludicrous claims like 'they can score any type of goal'. Don't believe the hype.
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    Post by L r d Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:18 pm

    Tweedledum wrote:if you watched their style of play in the early 80s it was actually pretty similar to how Arsenal played in the past 5 years Whistle

    LIES. The great Kimbo said that Arsenal play good football, like Newcastle. Sexy football.

    Liverpool have never played sexy football. Smile

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