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    Arsènal FC - 09/10 Season Thread

    Aristoskank
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    Post by Aristoskank Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:25 pm

    More hatred of Flamini, a player you totally fucked over. More listless, empty assessments of players who if they were that good would actually win something.
    Batman
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    Post by Batman Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:26 pm

    The Professor wrote:
    COTR #6 wrote:
    The Professor wrote:
    Cesc-Denilson is really not that disimilar to Carrick-Scholes, and that's the partnership that won the Mancs 2 PL titles.

    lol!


    Permission to comment Prof

    scratch

    Scholes is not that different from Cesc, and Denilson is in the Carrick, Gago mould.

    these days Scholes playing position is normally infront of the back 4, with carrick further forward
    The Pröfessör
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    Post by The Pröfessör Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:28 pm

    Batman wrote:
    The Professor wrote:
    COTR #6 wrote:
    The Professor wrote:
    Cesc-Denilson is really not that disimilar to Carrick-Scholes, and that's the partnership that won the Mancs 2 PL titles.

    lol!


    Permission to comment Prof

    scratch

    Scholes is not that different from Cesc, and Denilson is in the Carrick, Gago mould.

    these days Scholes playing position is normally infront of the back 4, with carrick further forward

    I know, but he played a more attacking role until the last few seasons. I think Cesc may end up the same way, playing a holding role - Guardiola style.
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:11 pm

    Prof do you think Denilson was your second best player last season ?

    This guy seems to award it to him on the basis that he stayed fit for the entire season 'and rarely put a foot wrong'. I'm wondering if this rarely putting a foot wrong takes into account the many games you lost control in midfield. I mean you lost the most games out of the top four, drew the most games out of the top four and conceded the most goals out of the top four. Your centre midfield was clearly one of the areas of weakness. So he may not have been putting a foot wrong but he certainly wasn't putting any right either.

    This guy should have awarded Denilson one of those spirit or clubman awards they give out to the less talented people who try hard but are a bit too useless to actually get any tangible credit.

    He is a weakness in your team and Wenger having faith in him instead of signing the necessary quality is harming what could be an excellent side. You simply can't afford to be at such a disadvantage in such a key area throughout a season
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    Post by Romford Pele Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:16 pm

    Football cheers
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    Post by Hlebagone Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:18 pm

    Flamini had great energy, which he needed because his positional sense was not exemplary. Supporters and pundits are much more likely to notice a player haring around like a lunatic than they are a player like Denilson, who avoids such lung busting displays simply by being in his position.

    Bollocks. Flamini had excellent positional play, that was what made him such excellent foil for Fabregas. He wasnt running around after the ball the whole time like a second rate midfielder, he was consistently placing pressure on the oppositions midfield, an attribute which is undoubtedly needed and was lacking from our midfield last season, partly due to the lack of Denilsons mobility. Why do you think Liverpool play Kuyt or Mascherano, or Man Utd Park?
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    Post by Romford Pele Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:18 pm

    Hlebagone wrote:
    Flamini had great energy, which he needed because his positional sense was not exemplary. Supporters and pundits are much more likely to notice a player haring around like a lunatic than they are a player like Denilson, who avoids such lung busting displays simply by being in his position.

    Bollocks. Flamini had excellent positional play, that was what made him such excellent foil for Fabregas. He wasnt running around after the ball the whole time like a second rate midfielder, he was consistently placing pressure on the oppositions midfield, an attribute which is undoubtedly needed and was lacking from our midfield last season, partly due to the lack of Denilsons mobility. Why do you think Liverpool play Kuyt or Mascherano, or Man Utd Park?

    <Ale>
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    Post by Romford Pele Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:27 pm

    In response to Agooner, Kevin pretty much summed up my thoughts. If you watched most Arsenal games lasts eason it was plain and simple that it was so easy to bypass our midfield. It may have become a cliche but it is too true.

    Despite the usless stats on Denilson he is not better than Song. He gives the ball away a ridiculous amount by not keeping it simple at times. He is not strong enough and doesn't cover the same sort of ground that Flamini did. We noticed this difference away from home especially where Flamini was sorely missed. it doesn't really matter if Flamini wasn't as good a passer of the ball as Denilson he helped to break up play in the sort of destroyer role which I believe most teams need.

    I do hope Song starts ahead of him this season if we do not sign another CM. Pretty sure both of them and Cesc will all start on Saturday anyway.
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    Post by blutgraetsche Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:08 am

    Hleb: "I regret leaving Arsenal. The season in Barcelona was a waste of time. I had a great time in London and Stuttgart, and look forward to the new season."

    http://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/0908/Artikel/alexander-hleb-vfb-stuttgart-rueckkehr-fc-arsenal-fc-barcelona-arsene-wenger-markus-babbel-lob.html
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    Post by shazlx Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:13 am

    Now for my opinion.

    I kinda agree with both sides.

    I agree that Denilson is more reliable defensively and is certainly more mobile than Song (who had previously struggled to get around the pitch). He likes to play it simple and can make most passes if he has the time and space.

    Denilson's defensive attributes are very underrated because of his size and style. Yes he is less aggressive than Flamini but we must remember that Nasri is also less aggressive than Helb and Adebayour was less than the season before. It all adds up to make Denilson's job much more difficult that it could have been

    For me Song right now is the better passer for Arsenal's game. Because of his higher skill level, he has the ability to hold the ball in tighter situations and also knows how to use his acute passes to bisect opposition midfields. However, Song is not a great tackler and despite his size he certainly isn't more imposing defensively.

    If I had to choose, I put pick Song for the smaller defensive teams who like to keep the ball in the air whilst sitting back and defend. I would prefer Denilson for the bigger teams as he is more accomplished defensively and these games are more suited to his greater passing range because of the requirement to retain possession.
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    Post by shazlx Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:15 am

    Either way we still need another, preferably more experienced, CM in the team. Surely we cant go another season with only three senior CMs (Cesc, Song and Denilson).
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    Post by The Pröfessör Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:10 am

    Hlebagone wrote:
    Flamini had great energy, which he needed because his positional sense was not exemplary. Supporters and pundits are much more likely to notice a player haring around like a lunatic than they are a player like Denilson, who avoids such lung busting displays simply by being in his position.

    Bollocks. Flamini had excellent positional play, that was what made him such excellent foil for Fabregas. He wasnt running around after the ball the whole time like a second rate midfielder, he was consistently placing pressure on the oppositions midfield, an attribute which is undoubtedly needed and was lacking from our midfield last season, partly due to the lack of Denilsons mobility. Why do you think Liverpool play Kuyt or Mascherano, or Man Utd Park?

    I wouldn't say Flamini had excellent positional play, he was widely known as a headless chicken before his last season, but he improved in that area and it was good enough for our midfield play. Even in his final season he was going on a lot of those rushes further up the field in the 2nd half of the season and Fabregas had to stay back alot to cover. It's funny when u read now that Flamini was the one who covered for our attacking players and allowed them to just focus mainly on their attacking duties. That's the biggest load of bullshit ever. First of all Flamini never played a pure holding role which we saw Denilson/Song play last season. He was a box to box midfielder going up and down the pitch, Cesc played the same way. That was possible because we had players with good defensive games on the wings, so they easily tuck in to cover If one of them(Cesc or Flamini) is caught up further up the pitch. We defended well as a unit, even Ade ran and ran and constantly pressured the opposition. Our work ethic, organisation, understanding between players(as a result of playing together for sometime) was light years away for what we saw last season. But unfortunately Ade's work rate dropped, we lost 75% of our midfield, so that means all defensive organisation and partnership we had in that area of the pitch was lost. We had to rebuild from scratch again. For some reason though, most people only see Denilson/Song replacing Flamini as the only change to our midfield, and thus everything that didn't work was as a result of them coming in. I'll challenge anyone to tell me a team in the history of the game that lost 75% of their functioning midfield in one season, replaced them with new players in another season and gone on to replicate a midfield performance anywhere close to the previous one in the same season.

    Hleb, u go on about Denilson's lack of mobility, but find me another Gooner who clearly believes the boy is not mobile. It's one of his strengths ffs. And even Wenger said it in one of his interviews I posted on the other page; are u saying Wenger was just making it up?

    Hlebagone wrote:Why do you think Liverpool play Kuyt or Mascherano, or Man Utd Park?

    The same reason we have played Eboue on the wings so many times.

    Benitez and Fungus know u can't afford to have luxury players on the wings without compromising the balance of the team especially at a time when over lapping fullbacks are becoming one of the key initiators of attacks in the game. Fungus made an exception with Ronaldo because he's a special talent and adjusted the shape of the team to accommodate him. But then in the big games we saw Rooney being sent out wide to cover Ronaldo's lack of defensive awareness. Benitez I doubt would do something like that. All players should be disciplined(carry out their defensive duties) and keep the shape of the team, and that's why they are the best pressing team in the world and they are very difficult to break down.

    At Arsenal we believe we can have luxury players like Walcott and Nasri(for most of last season) on the wings + a disinterested striker upfront and just have a defensive monster cover all that. Pure fantasy. And that's why we are as porous as a sieve. One player can only cover so much distance at the same time. And I have not even mentioned the lack of defensive organisation through out the team. No pressure whatsoever on the ball carrier, just skin one CM(even the Essiens of this world can be skinned) and you've got a free ride ride to our goal. But yeah a defensive monster(Flamini) can solve tthat. Again pure fantasy.

    Look, our whole midfield last season wasn't good enough, it consisted of one relatively experience CM(hopelessly out of form) and a bunch of kids who still had a lot to learn. For most of the season we were faced with teams just sitting back and inviting us to break them down. And those were the teams that were causing us problems as we severely lacked any sort of creativity to break them down. But the media hype and frustrated fans were all pointing to our lack of a DM as the reason for our struggle. I remember being the only one here saying what we needed was a creative player, and fortunately Wenger thought so too. We had to break our transfer record to get someone to do the job Walcott and Nasri should have been doing(We'd have been fucked had we gone on and bought this defensive monster instead). But believe it or not Nasri and Walcott didn't get anything resembling a criticism. No one mentioned the fact that walcott is clueless against teams that defend deep in large numbers, it took Nasri August, september , october, november, december, january 17 against hull away to put in a decent performance in any competition away from home nor do they do mention the fact that he is mainly a back passer when played on the left(better than Hleb my ass). So no defensive game, no creativity from our wide players(we had to break our transfer record to sort that out), yet they both managed to escape criticism all thanks to the hype surrounding this mythical DM.

    Song and Denilson deserved some of the criticism they got last season, and honestly those two would not have been starters when we were wining stuff, but unfortunately the club has embarked on a youth policy. I'm fine with that, but then we shouldn't be having more than one player learning his game in one area of the pitch(like we saw in midfield last season). When u want to incorporate young players to the team, surround them by experience players, this will take the pressure off them and they have people around to guide them. Look when Cesc was brought into our team, we had so much experience in midfield, so it was easier for him to settle in whilst working on some of his weaknesses. The same should have happened with Denilson, Walcott, Song, Nasri etc And that's why I so wanted us to buy Barry this summer. Instead they were all just thrown in at the same time and no wonder we struggled last season. What I don't get is why does everyone ignore the shortcomings of Nasri and Walcott but don't do the same to Song and Denilson? simple answer; the hype surrounding this mythical defensive monster. And it should stop. Players should be judged on their performance match to match and shouldn't just be criticised after a match because they didn't fit the description of the player fans want to see in his position despite playing well in that particular match.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:12 am

    shazlx wrote:Now for my opinion.

    I kinda agree with both sides.

    I agree that Denilson is more reliable defensively and is certainly more mobile than Song (who had previously struggled to get around the pitch). He likes to play it simple and can make most passes if he has the time and space.

    Denilson's defensive attributes are very underrated because of his size and style. Yes he is less aggressive than Flamini but we must remember that Nasri is also less aggressive than Helb and Adebayour was less than the season before. It all adds up to make Denilson's job much more difficult that it could have been

    For me Song right now is the better passer for Arsenal's game. Because of his higher skill level, he has the ability to hold the ball in tighter situations and also knows how to use his acute passes to bisect opposition midfields. However, Song is not a great tackler and despite his size he certainly isn't more imposing defensively.

    If I had to choose, I put pick Song for the smaller defensive teams who like to keep the ball in the air whilst sitting back and defend. I would prefer Denilson for the bigger teams as he is more accomplished defensively and these games are more suited to his greater passing range because of the requirement to retain possession.


    Excellent <Ale>

    shazlx wrote:Either way we still need another, preferably more experienced, CM in the team. Surely we cant go another season with only three senior CMs (Cesc, Song and Denilson).

    Agreed <Ale>

    Anyone who comes in should be experienced IMO. The advantage of having an experienced player is; experienced players can be useful to the team even when they are not playing well, but you can't say the same about young, inexperienced players who still have some way to go to know the ins and outs of the game.
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    Post by Aristoskank Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:25 am

    shazlx wrote:Either way we still need another, preferably more experienced, CM in the team. Surely we cant go another season with only three senior CMs (Cesc, Song and Denilson).

    It should sound alarms that your oldest 'senior' CM is still in his early 20s.
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    Post by Hlebagone Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:06 am

    The Professor wrote:
    Hlebagone wrote:
    Flamini had great energy, which he needed because his positional sense was not exemplary. Supporters and pundits are much more likely to notice a player haring around like a lunatic than they are a player like Denilson, who avoids such lung busting displays simply by being in his position.

    Bollocks. Flamini had excellent positional play, that was what made him such excellent foil for Fabregas. He wasnt running around after the ball the whole time like a second rate midfielder, he was consistently placing pressure on the oppositions midfield, an attribute which is undoubtedly needed and was lacking from our midfield last season, partly due to the lack of Denilsons mobility. Why do you think Liverpool play Kuyt or Mascherano, or Man Utd Park?

    I wouldn't say Flamini had excellent positional play, he was widely known as a headless chicken before his last season, but he improved in that area and it was good enough for our midfield play. Even in his final season he was going on a lot of those rushes further up the field in the 2nd half of the season and Fabregas had to stay back alot to cover. It's funny when u read now that Flamini was the one who covered for our attacking players and allowed them to just focus mainly on their attacking duties. That's the biggest load of bullshit ever. First of all Flamini never played a pure holding role which we saw Denilson/Song play last season. He was a box to box midfielder going up and down the pitch, Cesc played the same way. That was possible because we had players with good defensive games on the wings, so they easily tuck in to cover If one of them(Cesc or Flamini) is caught up further up the pitch. We defended well as a unit, even Ade ran and ran and constantly pressured the opposition. Our work ethic, organisation, understanding between players(as a result of playing together for sometime) was light years away for what we saw last season. But unfortunately Ade's work rate dropped, we lost 75% of our midfield, so that means all defensive organisation and partnership we had in that area of the pitch was lost. We had to rebuild from scratch again. For some reason though, most people only see Denilson/Song replacing Flamini as the only change to our midfield, and thus everything that didn't work was as a result of them coming in. I'll challenge anyone to tell me a team in the history of the game that lost 75% of their functioning midfield in one season, replaced them with new players in another season and gone on to replicate a midfield performance anywhere close to the previous one in the same season.

    Hleb, u go on about Denilson's lack of mobility, but find me another Gooner who clearly believes the boy is not mobile. It's one of his strengths ffs. And even Wenger said it in one of his interviews I posted on the other page; are u saying Wenger was just making it up?

    Hlebagone wrote:Why do you think Liverpool play Kuyt or Mascherano, or Man Utd Park?

    The same reason we have played Eboue on the wings so many times.

    Benitez and Fungus know u can't afford to have luxury players on the wings without compromising the balance of the team especially at a time when over lapping fullbacks are becoming one of the key initiators of attacks in the game. Fungus made an exception with Ronaldo because he's a special talent and adjusted the shape of the team to accommodate him. But then in the big games we saw Rooney being sent out wide to cover Ronaldo's lack of defensive awareness. Benitez I doubt would do something like that. All players should be disciplined(carry out their defensive duties) and keep the shape of the team, and that's why they are the best pressing team in the world and they are very difficult to break down.

    At Arsenal we believe we can have luxury players like Walcott and Nasri(for most of last season) on the wings + a disinterested striker upfront and just have a defensive monster cover all that. Pure fantasy. And that's why we are as porous as a sieve. One player can only cover so much distance at the same time. And I have not even mentioned the lack of defensive organisation through out the team. No pressure whatsoever on the ball carrier, just skin one CM(even the Essiens of this world can be skinned) and you've got a free ride ride to our goal. But yeah a defensive monster(Flamini) can solve tthat. Again pure fantasy.

    Look, our whole midfield last season wasn't good enough, it consisted of one relatively experience CM(hopelessly out of form) and a bunch of kids who still had a lot to learn. For most of the season we were faced with teams just sitting back and inviting us to break them down. And those were the teams that were causing us problems as we severely lacked any sort of creativity to break them down. But the media hype and frustrated fans were all pointing to our lack of a DM as the reason for our struggle. I remember being the only one here saying what we needed was a creative player, and fortunately Wenger thought so too. We had to break our transfer record to get someone to do the job Walcott and Nasri should have been doing(We'd have been fucked had we gone on and bought this defensive monster instead). But believe it or not Nasri and Walcott didn't get anything resembling a criticism. No one mentioned the fact that walcott is clueless against teams that defend deep in large numbers, it took Nasri August, september , october, november, december, january 17 against hull away to put in a decent performance in any competition away from home nor do they do mention the fact that he is mainly a back passer when played on the left(better than Hleb my ass). So no defensive game, no creativity from our wide players(we had to break our transfer record to sort that out), yet they both managed to escape criticism all thanks to the hype surrounding this mythical DM.

    Song and Denilson deserved some of the criticism they got last season, and honestly those two would not have been starters when we were wining stuff, but unfortunately the club has embarked on a youth policy. I'm fine with that, but then we shouldn't be having more than one player learning his game in one area of the pitch(like we saw in midfield last season). When u want to incorporate young players to the team, surround them by experience players, this will take the pressure off them and they have people around to guide them. Look when Cesc was brought into our team, we had so much experience in midfield, so it was easier for him to settle in whilst working on some of his weaknesses. The same should have happened with Denilson, Walcott, Song, Nasri etc And that's why I so wanted us to buy Barry this summer. Instead they were all just thrown in at the same time and no wonder we struggled last season. What I don't get is why does everyone ignore the shortcomings of Nasri and Walcott but don't do the same to Song and Denilson? simple answer; the hype surrounding this mythical defensive monster. And it should stop. Players should be judged on their performance match to match and shouldn't just be criticised after a match because they didn't fit the description of the player fans want to see in his position despite playing well in that particular match.

    It's funny how you misinterpret my point merely to suit your own argument. You have said
    It's funny when u read now that Flamini was the one who covered for our attacking players and allowed them to just focus mainly on their attacking duties.

    I however never said anything like that. Here is what I said
    He wasnt running around after the ball the whole time like a second rate midfielder, he was consistently placing pressure on the oppositions midfield

    Flamini enabled our attacking players to play with more freedom by tactically covering a lot of ground and placing pressure on the oopposition. THis naturally allowed their attacking players with less freedom, thus allowing our attacking players to play with more freedom.
    Spin Denilson's tackling, mobility anyway you want but he ultimately does not and cannot do this to the same extent.
    I'm not gonna disagree with thee rest of your post as it's well documented on here how important i believe Hleb was to our play and naturally, that had an affect but the point mentioned above remains.
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    Post by Aristoskank Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:39 am

    It's also funny how last summer Nasri was the second coming, whereas this summer he's to blame for the problems in attack.

    16 million well spent.
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    Post by Romford Pele Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:43 am

    I agree wholeheartedly with your posts with regards to Nasri and Walcott on the wings. It is well documented that both of them prefer central roles, and it is up to Arsene to ensure that he strikes up the right balance along with a good rapport hence the switch to 4-3-3.

    Nasri though was by far one of our best players last season and was the main source of creativity in a lot of our games, especially in the period before Arshavin came. Walcott deserves all the flak he gets though Ale

    Hleb I think we all know was key to the way we played in the 2007/8 season and he has been a big loss due to his defensive capabilities as well as his attacking ones.

    I still side with Kevin though in the sense that Flamini's mobility allowed us to press higher up the pitch and play a higher line, similar to what Liverpool done last season as Mascherano carried out a similar role.

    I will agree though in the fact that Denilson is a more adequate in posession which will always be a major factor in the bigger games.

    Overall though we need to defend better as a unit but that can't happen when we have a WF and an AM on the wings.
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    Post by Romford Pele Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:44 am

    Stimulus Package wrote:It's also funny how last summer Nasri was the second coming, whereas this summer he's to blame for the problems in attack.

    16 million well spent.

    Read my post.
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    Post by Aristoskank Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:47 am

    Ray Parlour wrote:
    Stimulus Package wrote:It's also funny how last summer Nasri was the second coming, whereas this summer he's to blame for the problems in attack.

    16 million well spent.

    Read my post.

    I wasn't talking about all of you, just Agooner. He was wanking himself dry when Nasri signed.

    The way I see it, a lot of these young players have talent, but the problem is that if two or three have a bad day the others don't have the character or experience to make up for it. When Arsenal lose, they very rarely win the following game. Youth has a hell of a lot to do with this, particularly when combined with a manager like Wenger who doesn't instill a determined, winning mentality in the players.
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    Post by Romford Pele Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:51 am

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1206377/ARSENE-WENGER-INTERVIEW-The-transcript-Martin-Samuels-fascinating-meeting-Arsenal-manager--I.html?ITO=1490

    Part 1 of an indepth interview with Wenger conducted by Martin Samuel.

    Interesting read ok
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    Post by Romford Pele Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:53 am

    Stimulus Package wrote:
    Ray Parlour wrote:
    Stimulus Package wrote:It's also funny how last summer Nasri was the second coming, whereas this summer he's to blame for the problems in attack.

    16 million well spent.

    Read my post.

    I wasn't talking about all of you, just Agooner. He was wanking himself dry when Nasri signed.

    The way I see it, a lot of these young players have talent, but the problem is that if two or three have a bad day the others don't have the character or experience to make up for it. When Arsenal lose, they very rarely win the following game. Youth has a hell of a lot to do with this, particularly when combined with a manager like Wenger who doesn't instill a determined, winning mentality in the players.

    Well, I'm firmly of the belief that you need at least 3-4 experienced players in a side. Obviously a lot of our young players have acquired that in the past few seasons, but someone like Barry as Agooner mentioned would have been a very good signing for us.
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    Post by Aristoskank Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:53 am

    I only got as far as his opinions on communism. Wenger should learn to keep his trap shut on topics he knows nothing about.
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    Post by Tweesus Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:27 am

    @ agooner

    Think you're being far too harsh on Nasri. For a start, this was his first season with us. Hleb was pretty shite in his first season, as was Pires, so to criticise him because 'he isn't as good as hleb' seems overly harsh. I expect him to have a much better season this year. He needs to impose himself on the game far more than he did last season.

    Playing Walcott in a 4-4-2 IS nuts. He should only be used in a 4-3-3 as a wid forward or as a striker in a 4-4-2. You're right though, playing both Nasri and Walcott is too much of a luxury and doesn't help the two central midfielders one bit.
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    Post by Romford Pele Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:31 am

    Tweedle wrote:@ agooner

    Think you're being far too harsh on Nasri. For a start, this was his first season with us. Hleb was pretty shite in his first season, as was Pires, so to criticise him because 'he isn't as good as hleb' seems overly harsh. I expect him to have a much better season this year. He needs to impose himself on the game far more than he did last season.

    Playing Walcott in a 4-4-2 IS nuts. He should only be used in a 4-3-3 as a wid forward or as a striker in a 4-4-2. You're right though, playing both Nasri and Walcott is too much of a luxury and doesn't help the two central midfielders one bit.


    Could probably get away with that at home though.
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    Post by Six Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:39 am

    I'm not sure if Walcott will ever fit into Arsenal as a starter. Super-sub Babel style maybe, but in a typical Arsenal game where they dominate possession and have the opposition defending deep he isn't very useful. Nor will he ever be able to do what Henry did - if that is Wenger's long term goal - I can't see it myself.
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    Post by Aristoskank Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:41 am

    I think you should play him wide right in a 3-3-4 formation.
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    Post by Six Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:52 am

    Ideally you want him playing wide beyond the linesman. On the bench
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    Post by The Pröfessör Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:50 pm

    Hlebagone wrote:
    It's funny how you misinterpret my point merely to suit your own argument. You have said
    It's funny when u read now that Flamini was the one who covered for our attacking players and allowed them to just focus mainly on their attacking duties.

    I however never said anything like that. Here is what I said
    He wasnt running around after the ball the whole time like a second rate midfielder, he was consistently placing pressure on the oppositions midfield

    I think u misunderstood what I wrote(or I probably didn't word it probably). I didn't say u specifically said those things, what I meant with 'when u read now that Flamini....' was when u read newspapers/blogs etc these days there's this common misconception that Flamini played a strict holding role covering for our two wide players + Cesc thus allowing them to mainly focus on their attacking duties. That's what I said is the biggest load of bullshit ever.


    Hlebagone wrote:Flamini enabled our attacking players to play with more freedom by tactically covering a lot of ground and placing pressure on the oopposition. THis naturally allowed their attacking players with less freedom, thus allowing our attacking players to play with more freedom.
    Spin Denilson's tackling, mobility anyway you want but he ultimately does not and cannot do this to the same extent.
    I'm not gonna disagree with thee rest of your post as it's well documented on here how important i believe Hleb was to our play and naturally, that had an affect but the point mentioned above remains.

    I agree with u Flamini covered a lot of ground and was good at pressing the opposition, but that would have amount to nothing If the rest of the team didn't do their defensive job. Play him in our team last year and I'm sure we'd still have been as porous as a sieve because all u had to do is take him out of the game with a single pass(over the top) or a dribble and u have a free ride to our goal. Collective pressing, that means right distance between the forwards, midfielders and defenders would have made us far more difficult to break down. I recognised the qualities of Flmaini and I think he's a good player but u don't necesaary have to have someone like him to be good defensively. I'll stop using Manu as an example, Chelsea under Mourinho had Makelele, Thiago and Lampard in midfield(none of them play anything resembling the way Flamini did), but they were one of the best teams defensively in Europe and I think one of the lowest amount of goals conceded in the PL history, that's because they defended well as a unit.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:51 pm

    Ray Parlour wrote:I agree wholeheartedly with your posts with regards to Nasri and Walcott on the wings. It is well documented that both of them prefer central roles, and it is up to Arsene to ensure that he strikes up the right balance along with a good rapport hence the switch to 4-3-3.

    Nasri though was by far one of our best players last season and was the main source of creativity in a lot of our games, especially in the period before Arshavin came. Walcott deserves all the flak he gets though Ale

    Hleb I think we all know was key to the way we played in the 2007/8 season and he has been a big loss due to his defensive capabilities as well as his attacking ones.

    I still side with Kevin though in the sense that Flamini's mobility allowed us to press higher up the pitch and play a higher line, similar to what Liverpool done last season as Mascherano carried out a similar role.

    I will agree though in the fact that Denilson is a more adequate in posession which will always be a major factor in the bigger games.

    Overall though we need to defend better as a unit but that can't happen when we have a WF and an AM on the wings.

    ok
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    Post by Allez les rouges Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:52 pm

    Ray Parlour wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1206377/ARSENE-WENGER-INTERVIEW-The-transcript-Martin-Samuels-fascinating-meeting-Arsenal-manager--I.html?ITO=1490

    Part 1 of an indepth interview with Wenger conducted by Martin Samuel.

    Interesting read ok

    Some very interesting stuff there, cheers Ray. (Is this part of the interview with Syed?) I particularly like the following bit, illuminating insight into his supposed dogmatism which others would do well to read before criticizing so sweepingly.

    Ironic comment from Saints there.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Irritated, though? When people do not make the distinction that a club like yours is working with economic restraints, and say you are not successful?

    What is difficult for me is not that clubs have more money. We try to go a different way that, for me, is respectable. Briefly, these are the basics. I thought: ‘We are building a stadium, so I will get young players in early so I do not find myself exposed on the transfer market without the money to compete with the others. I build a team, and we compensate by creating a style of play, by creating a culture at the club because the boy comes in at 16 or 17 and when they go out they have a supplement of soul, of love for the club, because they have been educated together.

    The people you meet at college from 16 to 20, often those are the relationships in life that keep going. That, I think, will give us strength that other clubs will not have.’ And, so far, we have flirted with success. Not last year because we were never in the race for the championship, but before and certainly in 2006 when we were in the Champions League final. The team looks to me to be growing and gelling and being close to it, but at the moment they do not get credit for what they produce and like every team who has not won they still doubt whether they can win. 

    How do you respond, though, to the criticism of many, including some Arsenal fans, that you have such a strong belief in this philosophy that you are now entrenched? You wouldn’t change it even if you could. You could be two players away and you still wouldn’t buy them.

    Yes, but once you get into that position you are in a trap. When Cesc Fabregas was 18, 19, I would play him in a 4-4-2 with Patrick Vieira and I saw it did not work. Then I had the decision to make about letting Patrick go, because Gilberto Silva and Vieira worked, Fabregas and Silva worked, but I could not play Fabregas and Vieira. But Fabregas was 19 and if he did not play I knew he would want to go, so we risked destroying everything, all the work we had put into this player. Now we have that same situation with Jack Wilshere.

    He is 17 and we cannot ask him to play every game to win the championship, he will play a few games maybe. But next year he will be ready to play all the time, he will want to play all the time and if we have bought a player in his position he will want to go. That is why you either have a policy of buying confirmed players, top, top players of 23 or over, or doing it as we are. (Animatedly.) The team we have now gets there. At 22 or 23 I think a team is mature enough to deliver and it is a massively important year for our club. I am conscious of that. I know people have no patience anymore.

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