Breaking News: Liverpool agree fee with Real for Alonso

Super De La Red wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:

Super De La Red wrote:

debaser wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:When did Arbeloa become a left-back?

He had the operation last week.

@ Allez
Real Madrid signed him with that intention as I see it allthough he will likely also be used to cover for Sergio Ramos when needed. I don't think he will be tied to any one position but used whenever is needed because there will be games where a defensive full back isn't needed like against the minnows and then there will be games against the big teams where Marcelo for example can't be trusted.

Lrd
I thought it before the 4-1 result and im sure others did aswell. Liverpool just seemed better,wanted it more, but gave away a lot of stupid points. Like I said that doesn't mean Man Utd didn't deserve it that year, because they did, just that if Liverpool would have won people would have been more likely to say it was the deserved winner.

You can compare it a bit to Sevilla in 06/07 where I think they were a bit like Liverpool but in the end Real came in and won it. Same thing applies here because while Real did deserve it, Sevilla deserved it more imo and I think many thought this way but in the end it was the winning mentality that pushed it in Man Utds and Real Madrids favour and that deserves respect aswell. No reason to let it bother you because you have the trophy while Liverpool might have the plaudits but I know thing Liverpool fans would prefer to have.

Cheers Super, just still find it confusing to say the least that a club like Real need a left-back and go out and buy a right-back...

Thought maybe they got confused with Aurelio...

You mean like we confused Gravesen with Carsley.

Indeed it doesn't make much sense because Pellegrini needs for his full backs to attack and Arbeloa neither attacks a lot or is able to do it effectively on the left back. There is also a poltical(in a sporting sense) agenda behind it. Arbeloa is a Real Madrid youth player and spanish which Perez promised but has sort of neglected in this transfer campaign. Arbeloa is part of Perez's new philosophy which consists of getting the best foreigners(Ronaldo,Kaka) along with the best spanish players(Alonso) plus having youth players(Granero and now Arbeloa).

But he's 26? I is well confused now

blutgraetsche wrote:

Messiah wrote:Has alonso, every been a real organizer of the play, see Xavi or has he just always been a Dmed with a good range of passing

I asked the same a few weeks ago, and the Real fans told me that he basically is all they need, the missing puzzle piece.

In regards to Liverpool, I think a 'proper' replacement would be easier to realise if a more attacking minded player than Alonso would be targeted. CMs/DMs who are good retainers and solid defensively (-> Alonso) are relatively rare, however, there are way more attacking midfielders who offer similar or even better retention. Mascherano offers more than enough defensive cover for a more attacking mided CM / AM, it all depends on Rafa, his willingness to take the risk of a more 'adventurous' style.

I don't follow this. Like who exactly ?

Alonso was solid defensively but he was also the main focal point of our play. Everything went through him from each side of the pitch until an opening was created from which it was usually who alonso produced the pass to gerrard or torres. His importance was often missed by the press who just have a torrard love in but if you ask any Liverpool fan today the majority will be depressed because £30m is no compensation for having the plans of a team that was on the brink of great things ripped to shreds


I struggle to see how we can get anyone nearly as good so it will involve a new style of play this season with whoever comes in. Moving Gerrard back isn't really an option as there is little point breaking up the best strike partnership in the league.

COTR #6 wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:

Messiah wrote:Has alonso, every been a real organizer of the play, see Xavi or has he just always been a Dmed with a good range of passing

I asked the same a few weeks ago, and the Real fans told me that he basically is all they need, the missing puzzle piece.

In regards to Liverpool, I think a 'proper' replacement would be easier to realise if a more attacking minded player than Alonso would be targeted. CMs/DMs who are good retainers and solid defensively (-> Alonso) are relatively rare, however, there are way more attacking midfielders who offer similar or even better retention. Mascherano offers more than enough defensive cover for a more attacking mided CM / AM, it all depends on Rafa, his willingness to take the risk of a more 'adventurous' style.

I don't follow this. Like who exactly ?

Alonso was solid defensively but he was also the main focal point of our play. Everything went through him from each side of the pitch until an opening was created from which it was usually who alonso produced the pass to gerrard or torres. His importance was often missed by the press who just have a torrard love in but if you ask any Liverpool fan today the majority will be depressed because £30m is no compensation for having the plans of a team that was on the brink of great things ripped to shreds


I struggle to see how we can get anyone nearly as good so it will involve a new style of play this season with whoever comes in. Moving Gerrard back isn't really an option as there is little point breaking up the best strike partnership in the league.

Bingo.

I wish I felt sympathy, in fact I probably do.

First of all, as I wrote earlier, I agree that the timing of this transfer is simply awful. Alonso was an important player for Liverpool, so replacing him wouldn't have been easy regardless of the timing, but whoever you may sign now will need time to get used to the team / league. And since it is the central midfield we are talking about, integrating someone new is even more difficult / time consuming.

Still, some of you Liverpool fans act as if there are no other midfielders in world football who are good passers and can keep possession for their team. The bad timing of this transfer also makes it more difficult to find a proper replacement, simply because most of the interesting players have moved already (I could see Diego () doing really well for you, with Mascherano covering him, for example). Pirlo is a good example of such a player, or Aquilani whom you have been linked to actually (albeit injury prone), hell, even Riquelme can do that job wonderfully. Most of the Dutch players on the market are used to possession football also, that's the football they grew up with. In the EPL, Cesc and Carrick are good examples.

So basically, if the Alonso transfer would have happened earlier, e.g. at the beginning of the transfer period, I do think that replacing him would have been much less difficult than you Liverpool fans believe. There is no player that can't be replaced.

blutgraetsche wrote:First of all, as I wrote earlier, I agree that the timing of this transfer is simply awful. Alonso was an important player for Liverpool, so replacing him wouldn't have been easy regardless of the timing, but whoever you may sign now will need time to get used to the team / league. And since it is the central midfield we are talking about, integrating someone new is even more difficult / time consuming.

Still, some of you Liverpool fans act as if there are no other midfielders in world football who are good passers and can keep possession for their team. The bad timing of this transfer also makes it more difficult to find a proper replacement, simply because most of the interesting players have moved already (I could see Diego () doing really well for you, with Mascherano covering him, for example). Pirlo is a good example of such a player, or Aquilani whom you have been linked to actually (albeit injury prone), hell, even Riquelme can do that job wonderfully. Most of the Dutch players on the market are used to possession football also, that's the football they grew up with. In the EPL, Cesc and Carrick are good examples.

So basically, if the Alonso transfer would have happened earlier, e.g. at the beginning of the transfer period, I do think that replacing him would have been much less difficult than you Liverpool fans believe. There is no player that can't be replaced.

Pirlo would have a hard time in the EPL me thinks and Diego is a Am where they use Gerrard and he isn't deeplying like Alonso. Riquelme is also an Am and plays his best when he doesn't have to do anything defensively at all. The fact is that there isn't that many players on the market that can do that job at top level which is one of the reason Real Madrid had no other options really except Cesc.

Also Alonso is an organiser of play allthough he is more of a deeplying type
He won't present much damage in the attacking third and he will need another player to help retain the ball but Granero could be that player but it would demand that we put Raul on the bench or Benzema. With that in mind Pellegrin would be smart to swith from his 4-4-2 to a 4-2-3-1. Otherwise I agree that he was the missing player in our tactics and a type we haven't had in 9 years since Redondo left.

Allez
When I said youth player I meant players that came from Real Madrid's youth sides which Arbeloa did before we sold him to Deportivo who in turn after 6 months of good play in La Liga was sold to Liverpool.

I actually explained earlier that it is easier for Liverpool to replace Alonso with a more attacking minded midfielder, simply because players who secure possession and are solid defensively (-> Alonso) are more rare. It all depends on how 'adventurous' Rafa wants to be - Mascherano offers enough defensive cover for a AM / primarily attacking minded CM.

Aquilani is more attacking minded than Alonso, so it seems like Rafa is willing to take the risk. It remains to be see how good it will work, and especially if he can stay fit.

blutgraetsche wrote:I actually explained earlier that it is easier for Liverpool to replace Alonso with a more attacking minded midfielder, simply because players who secure possession and are solid defensively (-> Alonso) are more rare. It all depends on how 'adventurous' Rafa wants to be - Mascherano offers enough defensive cover for a AM / primarily attacking minded CM.

Aquilani is more attacking minded than Alonso, so it seems like Rafa is willing to take the risk. It remains to be see how good it will work, and especially if he can stay fit.

I don't think Benitez wanted to go away from his formula which has finally seemed to have gotten Liverpool a good balance. However I believe if he could have found a direct replacement for Alonso he would have tried. With that said Aquilani might help his system work even better becaue he is quite good offensively. Allthough I suspect Liverpool will become weaker defensive next year with Johnson on the right back and Aquilani in midfield.

It is difficult; I am inclined to think that Liverpool won't have done too badly in ultimately replacing Alonso with Aquilani for a £12 million gain; I respect COTR's view - that Alonso was central to Liverpool's attacking play, and that he was the only player they possessed able to slow the game down and vary its tempo - but I'm not sure how important these latter qualities were to Liverpool last season. Liverpool's play revolves around a lot of pressing, good movement and direct passing, and though Alonso was important in initiating their attacking moves, I don't think their attacking threat need be severely diminished by his absence; they need someone in their midfield who can distribute the ball over the same ranges, and with the same directness, but I don't think they'll suffer too much without Alonso's ball retention abilities because I don't think they play a game based round ball retention, and I don't think many of the attackers they have benefit particularly from such play.

Aquilani doesn't have Alonso's positional nous, and for a more attacking player he doesn't score too many goals, but he can pass the ball well and he may be able to offer Liverpool more creatively in the final third of the pitch.

I'm interested - I think Liverpool could still do with strengthening their left hand side, but with Aquilani in Alonso's place in the centre of the pitch, it is difficult to see Benitez signing a really attacking left winger or left back. Alonso and Mascherano together at least provided Liverpool with a defensively sound base upon which an attacking left winger could have thrived.