African Cup of Nations

Black Magic wrote:You're a mod on here Puro?

Fuck no! I'm not qualified.

I put the super mod thing under his name a few years ago. Felt it gave the place a better image to have a mod down with the cool cats

EMP wrote:
Been too busy to post lately, but Egypt's success proves what I said all along.

Thatt the ACN don't count for shit ?

Yes, I'm struggling to see quite the point. That happarently by far the best team in Africa can never actually make it to the World Cup? Must be pretty depressing...

Yeah, sorry EMP it doesn't prove anything.
Only that African teams are unpredictable. If they deserve more spots will be seen this summer.
The only thing you could argue about is, that the qualifier system should be tweaked, so that a 2nd place team still have chances to qualify. But that's not easy to manage. You would need many more playoff games between the best four 2nd place teams.

Antarion wrote:Yeah, sorry EMP it doesn't prove anything.
Only that African teams are unpredictable. If they deserve more spots will be seen this summer.
The only thing you could argue about is, that the qualifier system should be tweaked, so that a 2nd place team still have chances to qualify. But that's not easy to manage. You would need many more playoff games between the best four 2nd place teams.

It proves that the allocation of World Cup places for Africa has been and continues to be ridiculous. The coefficicient takes into account historic performances as that was how experience was gained in the World Cup. Africa did not have a single place as of right until 1970 - ironically achieved due to an African boycott of 1966.

African teams have had more than fair share of poor refereeing decisions in World Cup finals trhat have affected their capacity to do well. In 1982 a bad decisaion sent Cameroon home in the first round. Had that decision been correct eventual champions Italy was eliminated in first round. Instead Europe does well at Africa's expense. !982 also saw the shameful Austrian-West German fix at Algeria's expense. Europe went on to benefit at Africa's expense. 1998 also had a few howlers at Africa's expense.

The last ACN proves what a complete farce the allocation of World Cup places to Africa is. And Puro Algeria was totaslly humiliated by Egypt in ACN. By far the better team gave the Algerians a football lesson. Algeria needed a play-off in World Cup qualifiers to go through and just hung on to a one-goal advantage, hardly the proof of superiority you claim. Algeria needed three tries to get past Egypt.

The referee in ACN was corrupt. He should have sent the Algerian keeper off far earlier and then it would have been 5 or 6 goal margin. Algeria's behaviour disgraced African football. They deserve bans for it. They couldn't win by playing football, so they resorted to blatant attempts to cause injury - really skillful that!

Africa should have loser's play-offs against other confederations. It is absurd that they don't, especially as Europe, South America and CONCACAF were gifted places in World Cups without earning it for 40 years plus. This needs to be sorted out for 2014 and if the other confederations' teams are better they will win and deserve their place at African teams' expense.

Haven't we had this argument before? A one-off playoff between differnet confederations for a final place is one thing, arbitrary play-offs between different confederations quite another. Completely artificial positive discrimination.

Egypt had enough chances to make the world cup. They couldn't deliver the goods. They had Algeria at home for a beating to qualify...failed. Then in a neutral venue like a ACON final..again failed. Do they deserve to be at the world cup? hell no.

They were not impressive at the african nations. The weak Ghana side looked as good as they did.

L r dd wrote:Egypt had enough chances to make the world cup. They couldn't deliver the goods

Maybe there was a sudden drop in temperature before they played away to Algeria

Allez les rouges wrote:Haven't we had this argument before? A one-off playoff between differnet confederations for a final place is one thing, arbitrary play-offs between different confederations quite another. Completely artificial positive discrimination.

The current system is negative discrimination against Africa that it is the only confederatiion that does not have a play-off against other confederations for teams thjat don't qualify automatically. The current system discriminates against Africa. Redressing the balance with play-offs against other confederations representatives that didn't make it is not positive discrimination howver many times you claim it is; it is giving parity with the rest of the world. The current system discriminates against Africa and only Africa.

Europe doesnt have play-offs against other confederations. Discrimination!


No, tbf, i would give Africa one play off spot in the future.

EMP wrote:The current system discriminates against Africa and only Africa.

Cosmic fail

Apparently Drogba has asked Hiddink on behalf of the Ivory Coast to become their new manager (Nigeria and North Korea are both still waiting for an answer by Guus)...

EMP wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:Haven't we had this argument before? A one-off playoff between differnet confederations for a final place is one thing, arbitrary play-offs between different confederations quite another. Completely artificial positive discrimination.

The current system is negative discrimination against Africa that it is the only confederatiion that does not have a play-off against other confederations for teams thjat don't qualify automatically. The current system discriminates against Africa. Redressing the balance with play-offs against other confederations representatives that didn't make it is not positive discrimination howver many times you claim it is; it is giving parity with the rest of the world. The current system discriminates against Africa and only Africa.

Eh?

As I remember, last time you were asking for not a single loser's play-off (which would surely be acceptable), but a play-off for every African team that failed to qualify automatically

No matter how many times *you* repeat it, it's not going to make the notion any the less partial or tendentious (positive discrimination is putting it very kindly indeed). "Cosmic fail" sounds about right to me

Allez les rouges wrote:

EMP wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:Haven't we had this argument before? A one-off playoff between differnet confederations for a final place is one thing, arbitrary play-offs between different confederations quite another. Completely artificial positive discrimination.

The current system is negative discrimination against Africa that it is the only confederatiion that does not have a play-off against other confederations for teams thjat don't qualify automatically. The current system discriminates against Africa. Redressing the balance with play-offs against other confederations representatives that didn't make it is not positive discrimination howver many times you claim it is; it is giving parity with the rest of the world. The current system discriminates against Africa and only Africa.

As I remember, last time you were asking for not a single loser's play-off (which would surely be acceptable), but a play-off for every African team that failed to qualify automatically

No matter how many times *you* repeat it, it's not going to make the notion any the less partial or tendentious (positive discrimination is putting it very kindly indeed). "Cosmic fail" sounds about right to me

Galactic fail for you lot. There is nothing positive disrciminatary about arguing for inter-confederation play-offs. You should earn your places not have them as a result of historic discrimination over decades.

If you bothered to read that thread throughout I agreed to three play-off places for best second place teams from Africa against other confederations. It is typically Eurocentric argumentthat sees positive discrimination as meaning anything that MIGHT mean they lose an advantage. If the European and other confederations team are that good they will go to the World Cup. Egypt is ranked ten in the world now.

By the way Axe: Kalusha Bwalya thinks the system is ridiculous too. The co-efficient is biased in favour of continents that have more places as they have more opportunities to do better than other confederations.

For forty years most of the World did not have a single automatic place in the World Cup. Europe and South America gained experience at the expense of others without hgaving earned their places. Thsat was discrimination plain and simple. Not positive discrimination. It was discrimination, especially against Africa, Asia and Oceania.

The epic fail is FIFA's for tolerating such blatant discrimination at the behest of the more powerful confederations and CONCACAF, which really had done nothing to deserve so many places.

Why not go back to the World Group?

After all 13 really isn't enough for Europe - they should have more and next time South America will have 55% representation. A system that could result in Africa losing a place even if it has ther best performance it has managed is a nonsense. Not my argument alone. One of the most intelligent and articulate of footballers - Kalusha Bwalya pointed that out.

Allez les rouges wrote:

EMP wrote:

Allez les rouges wrote:Haven't we had this argument before? A one-off playoff between differnet confederations for a final place is one thing, arbitrary play-offs between different confederations quite another. Completely artificial positive discrimination.

The current system is negative discrimination against Africa that it is the only confederatiion that does not have a play-off against other confederations for teams thjat don't qualify automatically. The current system discriminates against Africa. Redressing the balance with play-offs against other confederations representatives that didn't make it is not positive discrimination howver many times you claim it is; it is giving parity with the rest of the world. The current system discriminates against Africa and only Africa.

Eh?

As I remember, last time you were asking for not a single loser's play-off (which would surely be acceptable), but a play-off for every African team that failed to qualify automatically No matter how many times *you* repeat it, it's not going to make the notion any the less partial or tendentious (positive discrimination is putting it very kindly indeed). "Cosmic fail" sounds about right to me

I never suggested anything of the sort and you know it. I suggested second place teams and compromised to three of them hgaving play-offs. Stop distorting what I said.

Just looking at qualifiers for next year. A few surprises with Egypt, Cameroon and Nigeria all failing to make it.

The funniest is South Africa:

JOHANNESBURG -- South Africa appealed to the continent's top soccer body on Sunday, insisting it should be included at next year's African Cup of Nations.

The South African Football Association said it had lodged an official appeal with the Confederation of African Football, challenging CAF's interpretation of the rules after Niger qualified ahead of South Africa and Sierra Leone when all three teams finished on nine points.

South Africa believed it had qualified as Group G winner on goal difference and the players danced in front of cheering fans and coach Pitso Mosimane hugged members of his technical staff following Saturday's 0-0 home draw with Sierra Leone at Mbombela Stadium.

South Africa was stunned when CAF later announced Niger had, in fact, gone through to the 16-team African championship in Gabon and Equatorial Guinea because of its better record in head-to-head games with the other two teams.

"We have noted that CAF has announced that Niger has qualified in our group, despite South Africa finishing on top of the group in terms of goal difference which is the universally recognized means of separating teams who are equal on points," SAFA said in its letter to CAF.

Mosimane said he adjusted his tactics during the game against Sierra Leone to ensure South Africa held on for a draw, thinking that would qualify it for the Cup with news that Niger was losing 3-0 in Egypt.

At the final whistle, goalkeeper Itumeleng Khune led a group of players who danced for supporters at all four corners of the 2010 World Cup stadium and other team members held up banners.

CAF released a statement on Saturday to confirm Niger had qualified instead of South Africa, quoting from the rules that were published before the start of the final round of qualifiers.

It said Niger had six points in games against South Africa and Sierra Leone. The other two only collected five in the head-to-head contests.

SAFA insisted it would fight to have its team included in Africa's top tournament, which runs Jan. 21-Feb. 12.

"Do not despair, all is not lost," SAFA president Kirsten Nematandani said he told the South African players in the dressing room. "We believe we have a case and we will carry this fight all the way."