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Rooney

Poll

Has Rooney developed since leaving Everton?

No, gone backwards: [ 1 ]; [3%]

Little or no improvement: [ 9 ]; [26%]

Moderate improvement (25% better player): [ 18 ]; [51%]

Huge Improvement (50% better player): [ 7 ]; [20%]

Total Votes: 35

Saintsar

Saintsar: Guest

Post n°31

Re: Rooney

by Saintsar Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:27 pm

Tweedledum wrote:

Torrente wrote:He has improved but not greatly. The reason why I say this is because while he has improved in the league, he has not improved in the international stage, he has actually gotten worse. He was great in Euro 2004 where he scored 4 goals and was England's MOM against France. But since then, he simply can't seem to score and runs around like a headless chicken a bit too much. Rooney really needs to learn some tactical discipline and be more prolific in front of goal.

International football doesn't count though.

The reasons for this can be pinned on the fact that at Euro 2004 teams didn't know what to expect and that since then SGE played anti-football.

What is this 'anti-football' you keep mentionning? Does it involve scoring lots of own goals? Razz

More seriously - you're right, Sven screwed Rooney for 2 years between 2004 and this summer. Everyone else passed sideways and backwards and Rooney was expected to do the lot. As with Beckham in 2002, when England lost him they looked so much worse.

Both factors mean that Rooneys international record is unnassessible.

Agreed. Give Rooney half a dozen games under McClaren and I think we'll see something like the old Rooney for England - battering them in from 20 yards and suchlike...

Chap

Chap: Number of posts : 204
Age : 37
Registration date : 2006-08-12

Post n°32

Re: Rooney

by Chap Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:29 pm

Regarding his England form I think the obvious issue is his strike partners. At ManU he developed considerably, but he was playing with a top striker with physical presence who knew how to lead the line.

Compared to his Everton days his build up play has improved immeasurably. As for goals, his finishing in the box has improved but he still has some way to go. The only thing that hasn't improved is his personality.

Edit: And his looks.

Roger Hunt

Roger Hunt: Number of posts : 10115
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Post n°33

Re: Rooney

by Roger Hunt Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:29 pm

Anti-football implies some kind of game plan - a la Greece - to stop your opponents playing attractive football.

England just didn't have a game plan, it was 'bung your best 11 players out there and let them sort it out'.

Tweesus

Tweesus: Number of posts : 34851
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Post n°34

Re: Rooney

by Tweesus Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:33 pm

Roger_Hunt wrote:Anti-football implies some kind of game plan - a la Greece - to stop your opponents playing attractive football.

England just didn't have a game plan, it was 'bung your best 11 players out there and let them sort it out'.

Yep, anti-football is also known as 'parking a bus'

Not only does it imply stoppoing the other team from playing but it also implies that this renders yourselves incapable of stringing two pases together - largely because you training concentrates purely on ant-football tactics Wink

Torrente

Torrente: Number of posts : 5489
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Post n°35

Re: Rooney

by Torrente Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:37 pm

I understand that there are certain factors that had a burden on Rooney's performances in international games, but I don't think they're strong enough to exonerate him. He should have still done a lot better than he did. 0 goals in all WC qualifiers including against very weak opposition and hit and miss performances in the WC tell me that part of his spark is gone. And it's not like England played fluid attacking football in Euro 2004 or anything.

L r d

L r d: Guest

Post n°36

Re: Rooney

by L r d Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:40 pm

Parks Lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:Can't really respond to this in detail because I'm in work, but surely this is some kind of trick question or something.

Those Everton fans are living in denial if they don't think he's improved in the last few years. He's gone from being an impact substitute to a prolific scorer/assister in one of the top 3 teams in the country and probably one of the first names on their team sheet.

At work?

I work at my stepdad's company a few days a week for shockingly bad pay. I'm basically a piss-poor apprentice.

I fix PC's. Ish.

Torrente

Torrente: Number of posts : 5489
Age : 39
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Post n°37

Re: Rooney

by Torrente Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:41 pm

Parks Lives wrote:

Torrente wrote:He has improved but not greatly. The reason why I say this is because while he has improved in the league, he has not improved in the international stage, he has actually gotten worse. He was great in Euro 2004 where he scored 4 goals and was England's MOM against France. But since then, he simply can't seem to score and runs around like a headless chicken a bit too much. Rooney really needs to learn some tactical discipline and be more prolific in front of goal.

He's not a headless chicken at all. Thats a phrase well over used.

He just thrives on space and against good and organised teams he gets far less of it.

What I mean by that is that Rooney tends to run around aimlessly around the field at times. This is mainly off the ball, when the opposition is in possession. He drops back too deep to tackle someone instead of letting the midfielders do their job. This can be detrimental because once England would get the ball back, Rooney would be 10 meters deeper (give or take) than where he's supposed to be, hence affecting attacking opportunities. I understand that Rooney is hard-working and a very intense player, but he needs to learn to stick to his position.

Roger Hunt

Roger Hunt: Number of posts : 10115
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Post n°38

Re: Rooney

by Roger Hunt Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:42 pm

Switch off.

Switch on again.

If PC still does not start, repeat until 5pm.

christmasborocooper

christmasborocooper: Number of posts : 39348
Age : 37
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Post n°39

Re: Rooney

by christmasborocooper Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:42 pm

Obispo wrote:

Parks Lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:Can't really respond to this in detail because I'm in work, but surely this is some kind of trick question or something.

Those Everton fans are living in denial if they don't think he's improved in the last few years. He's gone from being an impact substitute to a prolific scorer/assister in one of the top 3 teams in the country and probably one of the first names on their team sheet.

At work?

I work at my stepdad's company a few days a week for shockingly bad pay. I'm basically a piss-poor apprentice.

I fix PC's. Ish.

L r d

L r d: Guest

Post n°40

Re: Rooney

by L r d Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:43 pm

Roger_Hunt wrote:Switch off.

Switch on again.

If PC still does not start, repeat until 5pm.

That's pretty much it. Occasionally I have to search for invoices on sage and do the phones/customers at the front desk.

It's alright... Gets me out of the house but not much else.

Brian2468

Brian2468: Number of posts : 4875
Age : 65
Registration date : 2006-08-06

Post n°41

Re: Rooney

by Brian2468 Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 am

Think it is fair to say Rooney has improved 25%.
Ferguson in my mind could do more with him. It is easy for me to say that but really, he is the most intense player to come out of England ever. Applying him a trade to become a top finisher, freekick taker, play in the hole, does help his growth but stagnates him in many others areas. He needs to be involved all the time until he cannot run another inch. High intensity players need the ball all the time, busseling around in midfield chasing everyone and anything. picking up and laying off short creative passes. Only maybe Essien could give him a better go at that job right now. But a trained Rooney as a offensive midfielder with his strength, stamina, speed and ball skills (which are not that bad) is where he will tactically advance much faster...... At United. Ferguson could start off by doing this against the weaker midfield teams, or FA or League cup games..... Then maybe Rooney will learn how to pass and shoot better........Because you know he cannot wait for Ronaldo to set him up yet Right!!!.He is learning as well........

Isco Benny

Isco Benny: Number of posts : 19647
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Supports : Spurs, FOLLOWS (just for worms): Werder Bremen, Lazio, Ferencvaros, Valencia, El Classico, Angleterre, Magyarorszag
Favourite Player : Don't cha wish your left back was BAE? Don't cha
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Post n°42

Re: Rooney

by Isco Benny Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:22 am

Its pretty hard to judgwe this one, because Rooney was an ounknown quantity pretty much at Everton, and therefore wasnt man marked or doubled up on like he often is now.

I think he is football wise developing fine- people have to remember that at 20 he should not be expected to win games on his own - the best two players of the last generation (ronaldinho and Zidane) were infact slow burning starters and really hit the heights around 24/25.

The main problem is his temperament is still dodgy, and being a marked man by referees, he'll struggle to improve if he keeps spending time in the stands suspended

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